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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

That list that is post above has all sorts of flaws, mainly in the fact that its based around PVE and very little experience of PVP, and yet most of the arguments are based in a PVP based scenario.

(Dev's have already shown the new teir system just not in yet.)

The main "***" point about all of this is people want to make it easier to play the game, I have some wonderful news for you, the game is hard, its hard when you start out its hard when you are a vet, vets get killed just as easy as the rest of us.  Your main argument is based on stupidity, not of yourself, but of the noob players that are well...err playing the game.  Its out of shear ignorance that they don't know how to fit a bot, how to fit a mining or harvester.  Its not the games fault or game mechanics fault, its called being new.

This dumb idea that you automatically CANT PVP unless you have a T4 frame is COMPLETE BS.  The main reason being is that you have simply NO idea what fits are being used, and at what speeds.  You are not in the PVP arena, you don't know how, and the strategy were actively using.  This is a paper vs reality problem.  You think you know how it should be done, but they way your wanting PVP to be based around is in the past, way in the past.

The main thing is, a lot of the "problems" just stem from being ignorant.  That is not a balance issue its a human issue.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

the new tier system that i read about is mainly about production - there was no word about the linear improvement of the parameters of modules...

about pvp - who gives anything about pvp if your first two weeks are annoying hard and for non-EVEler just too hard to understand? No one will - because they long before entering pvp quit the game.

I dont want to make things easier - just have a learning/gaming curve instead of a steep wall at entering a game.

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Yea about the response I expected to get.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Merkle wrote:

The main thing is, a lot of the "problems" just stem from being ignorant.  That is not a balance issue its a human issue.

You are right, it's the willingness of players to stick to it and learn the game, but from experience most are not bothered and would rather be entertained than challenged. I would rather be challenged meaningfully though.

Willingness to learn and keep learning depends a lot on, the achievements you could attain ( first pvp kill. First 100 million NIC or whatever). For most new players this is a mystery or takes too much of their time to be bothered.

That's why I think joining a corp can make a huge difference. You can guide that player to PVP roam in a few days or guide them to efficiently PVE, and let them know how entertaining it can be past a month or 2.

RIP PERPETUUM

55 Reply by Grazskin (edited by Grazskin 2012-11-02 19:35:30)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

The Aka "Learning Curve" is reduced by getting into an existing Corp with experienced players to get all those Noob questions answered. Also help with your spending of EP based on what you want to do in the game, Vet's can be a great source of in-game knowledge and mechanics and set you on the quickest path related to skills.

the people that wont enjoy this game are the people that want to start the new game and go it alone without a resource of knowledge, these people will make allot of mistakes that can be avoid. As long as they are willing to endure those challenges I see them sticking around, the ones that don't want to endure that challenge should join an existing corp.

This Game is for the better part completely player base driven. Market, pvp, fits, tactics, industry. Granted the devs have seeded more equipment then there ever was before but at a high price, this is to soften the new players equipment issues if they don't have the research or a corp that can support them.

56 Reply by Grazskin (edited by Grazskin 2012-11-02 19:47:32)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Tiggus wrote:

So I recently came back about a week ago and have been playing around just doing PvE stuff and I agree, in order to attract a decent population the game is missing something on the PvE side. 

I'm not going to say I have the answers because I don't, but some of the things that I think could help are below.  I think those that have done a serious amount of PvP will agree, PvE is an important part of every PvPers life in this game because you lose all your stuff when you die and most cannot afford to just keep running around in new bots after a bunch of PvP(assuming you don't just use t1 equipment).  You have to PvE and rebuild your stash so it is very important that aspect of the game becomes better even for PvPers.

1)  Life without a corp should be possible on beta/gamma.  I have this weird dream that I would greatly enjoy it if this game had some sort of "player housing" where you could just find some open space on a island and start building a habitat(small one) that could not be destroyed and you could base out of.  Maybe this idea is flawed but I think the important thing is making it enticing for players to move to beta/gamma and have SOME safety and a place to base out of beyond the public terminals, encourage them to spread out, or form small loose-knit communities.  People like to build stuff - but not all people like communistic corps where only the leader(s) get to build stuff - give us more solo or small group buildable content that cannot be destroyed by pvp - but base it in pvp zones.  I think this could easily be implemented by some small tweaks to resource costs(don't make small house cost 50 trillion titan ok) and protection attributes of the gamma stuff.  Keep the bigger or more important stuff destructable - compromise is key here if you want the most people participating as possible.

2)  Central trading hub/island that links to all the alphas and maybe even betas.  Travel time in this game is a killer and biggest boredom to me.  It takes long enough to travel for assignment objectives let alone trying to go from one alpha to another.  I like big islands but I don't like huge trips between them.

Just some ideas, but a +1 for the OP and more PvE stuff that integrates closely with PvP stuff and thus can appease both crowds.

1. will never happen, this is a pvp game, how the hell do you expect to hold onto your territory on beta or gamma solo...just not possible, and to expect that is foolish. Please point out a pvp game you can do this now in?

a. unless the dev's create a new alpha island specific for play base house, and add items so you can dicreate  you home with like topheys, etc.. in this game I see no point. but I guess it would give people that like this sort of thing something to waste there time on.

2. Player base market...you can sell or buy at any terminal. if something not being sold at your terminal you have to travel to get it. Now one thing could be introduced a contract system like in eve.

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i see two very contradictionary requests from the same players:

1. we only want a fine selection of hardcore player, that are willing to endure the single way to "success" in this game

2. we want a server full with enough player that make all those hardcore game mechanics finally working that are based only on the assumption that there will be far more then 100 player at the same time online.

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Annihilator wrote:

i see two very contradictionary requests from the same players:

1. we only want a fine selection of hardcore player, that are willing to endure the single way to "success" in this game

2. we want a server full with enough player that make all those hardcore game mechanics finally working that are based only on the assumption that there will be far more then 100 player at the same time online.

That's way over exaggerated to prove a point. What some hardcore pvp vets just want more players so they can pawn and camp, over and over again and expect them to stay just to keep vets entertained. Then they wonder why there aren't any of them around and start whining on forums or just leave game themselves.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Annihilator wrote:

i see two very contradictionary requests from the same players:

1. we only want a fine selection of hardcore player, that are willing to endure the single way to "success" in this game

2. we want a server full with enough player that make all those hardcore game mechanics finally working that are based only on the assumption that there will be far more then 100 player at the same time online.

Quick everyone just agree with Anni and everything will be alright.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Annihilator wrote:

i see two very contradictionary requests from the same players:

1. we only want a fine selection of hardcore player, that are willing to endure the single way to "success" in this game

2. we want a server full with enough player that make all those hardcore game mechanics finally working that are based only on the assumption that there will be far more then 100 player at the same time online.

You seem to love your black and white. Personally my favorite color is green like my gorgeous eyes

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Also, 'contradictionary' is a pretty cool new word. I'm no grammer Nazi. I love creating words and that sir is a good one!

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

I personally think that alpha dwellers should have the option of building their own pbs. Perhaps give each person their own island that only you and people with your permission can get to where you can build your base. Of course this island would have no resources and the pbs would confer no advantages.


It would give alpha people and corps a taste of what's to come and something to work for and toward.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

63 Reply by Jita (edited by Jita 2012-11-03 12:42:09)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Also locking out beta islands is *** either gamma in the game

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Spoken from the New Player/CareBear perspective:

Travel:
We dont need bots that move faster, we just need faster ways of getting around. How about teleports that weigh in at .5u, take 1 min to charge, allow only 1 person to use, and work only on alpha. Make the cost 25k nic.
Missions:
We need to be able to get more from missions. How about adding mission chains that end up giving items or add more things to buy in the syndicate stores? PVP ammo/Structure Kernels/Beacons arent good rewards for us because we dont PVP, not enough of a market for buildings, and cannot solo the beacons. Also what about bounty hunter missions? Not "go here and do this" type of missions but I want XX amount of this type of NPC killed for various reasons. Dont tell them where to go and make the different lvl of missions taking you across the alphas to find the NPCs.
Content:
How about adding different factions within the different races or different races altogether. This could be the entry point for new bots/items or Hybrid bots. How about adding invasions? Make them on the beta islands. Yellow bots could invade a blue island. Once the island has been designated, open PVP would cease for the time being. Saps would be put on hold and everyone could come out and participate in driving them off the island. Once they have been driven back you have 30m to get off island and the island returns to normal. 
Mining:
We need more fields. I dont want to spend 15m scanning a field to find out it only has 1 or 2 green tiles. Maybe make them smaller in size but decay and appear more frequently. How about adding cache containers we can buy and deploy or adding cache sites around the islands where we could dump our ores for storage? If I only have 2 hours to play I dont like having to spend 45 min to 1 hr of that time slowboating a scarab around the island to haul my ores back to the terminal. You could make the sites static and charge hourly rent or make them deployable and we have to pump nic into them to keep them from despawning.
Artifact Scanning:
If we are going to beef up the syndicate stores then how about adding tokens to the drops? Also how about adding various CT's to the sites other than only MK2's? Make them appropriate to the diff sites and vary from t1 - t3.

Anyways just my 2 cents.

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Grazskin wrote:

1. will never happen, this is a pvp game, how the hell do you expect to hold onto your territory on beta or gamma solo...just not possible, and to expect that is foolish. Please point out a pvp game you can do this now in?

a. unless the dev's create a new alpha island specific for play base house, and add items so you can dicreate  you home with like topheys, etc.. in this game I see no point. but I guess it would give people that like this sort of thing something to waste there time on.

There are lots of games where you could build safe structures in pvp areas.  Most recently I think of Darkfall where you could have houses in villages, people could break your door down if they had siege equipment but they couldn't destroy the house and you could rebuild the door.  The system worked great for people going out and npc'ing near their village then dropping the loot off.

Also, Ultima Online you could build houses in the wilderness, SWG, the list goes on.  It's not a new concept and I've always seen it work successfully and it gets more people out and about and away from the main cities/terminals.

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Tiggus wrote:
Grazskin wrote:

1. will never happen, this is a pvp game, how the hell do you expect to hold onto your territory on beta or gamma solo...just not possible, and to expect that is foolish. Please point out a pvp game you can do this now in?

a. unless the dev's create a new alpha island specific for play base house, and add items so you can dicreate  you home with like topheys, etc.. in this game I see no point. but I guess it would give people that like this sort of thing something to waste there time on.

There are lots of games where you could build safe structures in pvp areas.  Most recently I think of Darkfall where you could have houses in villages, people could break your door down if they had siege equipment but they couldn't destroy the house and you could rebuild the door.  The system worked great for people going out and npc'ing near their village then dropping the loot off.

Also, Ultima Online you could build houses in the wilderness, SWG, the list goes on.  It's not a new concept and I've always seen it work successfully and it gets more people out and about and away from the main cities/terminals.

nether of those examples reflect perpetuum. Because it can't be destroyed and even in those games you wont be able to defend it solo if someone really wants in your house, in OU the only way into someones house is a key and even now they have safe guards against that with an access list.

A better example would be Shadowbane that more reflects house in compared to perpetuum.

67 Reply by Ville (edited by Ville 2012-11-03 19:58:40)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

*Prepares for onslaught of sarcastic veterans*  How about a Alpha Island in the middle of the three alpha ones that is fairly large and you can build basic terminal structures on that cost millions of nic of up keep costs with a warning system that is much like reinforcement timers where if you do not pay you go into a reinforcement stage, which costs the owner of the station an extra "late" penalty instead of just the basic rental fees.  This island would be terraformable, but have restrictions, to allow for some "alpha side pvp/griefing"  And if said corp runs out of money then the outpost would go through 3 reinforcement timers that would eventually cause the entire contents of the terminal to be dropped into a can, much like todays gamma bases.

This island, has No Epi, No colixum, and No faction specific ores and plants.  But requires it's specific buildings to use Colixum, to provide some use of that ore.

*edit*  Second thought add mining towers (specific ore towers)  that you have to build in order to mine that specific ore or harvest the plants!

The island should be accessible to all three alpha 1s and have highways that make sense.

Just my two cents.

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Kind of agree Ville but you would need instanced islands or they would be full. I personally wouldn't allow mining but would allow missions building and the other station services

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69 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-11-03 20:39:34)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

What ville said, but structures in alpha should deteriorate with time. Need to keep maintenance , that will keep players  logged and would avoid over crowding. Certain standing with that faction would be needed too, somewhere about 4 or 5. There is so many ways to avoid overcrowding without pvp.

Edit: Should we really worry about overcrowding right now, seriously ?

RIP PERPETUUM

70 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2012-11-03 20:47:40)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

ville is repeating my wife's suggestion...

*the world of NIA must really be close to its extinction* fuuu

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71 Reply by Arjha Shanoo (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-11-03 21:29:50)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

yep kinda like my suggestion - just that mine has NPC-MPC action too in it (= alpha siege island)... Hmm right now I only find thehastened background story that I wrote about it:
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … ge-of-nia/

Here again a short summary of the idea NPC Siege Island

  • island "splitted" by syndicate and Nians, both have a base at one end of the island

  • Syndicate's Basic Base: basic Terminal (all facilities like mainterminal on alpha1 > only lvl1!) - may get attacked by lower NPC waves but won't degrade any further

  • Nian Base: High Tiered MPCs, complete range; are actively defended by them

  • Defense: Defense towers on both sides (Syndicate/Nians) to deflect some enemies, getting less the farther from terminal

  • Player can build and upgrade the Syndicate Base according to Gamma's MPC, sabotage/destroy or take over Nian buildings

  • Upgrade to Nian AI: active enemy defense and offense (nearest player NPC gets regularly attacked until destroyed - path starts at attacker group undocking from Nian terminal; if Nian buildings get attacked reinforcement undock from Nian terminal and rush to it quite aggressivly; attack rate decreases with distance from their base; enemy force strength too)

  • side addition for PvPer's: instead of pure alpha siege, add a "beta" siege with police towers as safe zones around players MPCs

  • main idea: agents from all corps lay down your internal wars - the syndicate needs you to fight off the Nians

EDIT: found my first post: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/70393/#p70393

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Annihilator wrote:

ville is repeating my wife's suggestion...

*the world of NIA must really be close to its extinction* fuuu

Your wife tells you to stop trolling and repeating things ad nauseum?
I'm not surprised.


I was thinking an alpha island in the middle, but making it the starter island for all new characters, and having a taste of all that was in Perp from the mining, terraforming, PvP, pve, etc.  After an new player shows enough competence or completes enough tutorials, they can then select a race and jump to their alpha 1, EP intact and be unleashed in the world. This way a new player at least has a clue what's going on and what works, and they can focus on a career and spend their EP a bit more wisely ...

73 Reply by Arjha Shanoo (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-11-03 22:33:22)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

starter island was another idea of mine... that one has even an own topic since a few days ago...

74 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-11-03 23:16:37)

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Re: PvPers now have near infinite quality content, now we need carebears

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

starter island was another idea of mine... that one has even an own topic since a few days ago...



One way on another I like most of your ideas, but no sand out of the sandbox please.

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Celebro wrote:

One way on another I like most of your ideas, but no sand out of the sandbox please.

There is no "sand" on alpha islands.

not a single bit of it.
its debatable if placing some plants that have a persistance as a fieldcontainer, can be considered as "sand"...

alpha area is a pure themepark.

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