1 Topic by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-10-19 19:51:16)

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Topic: Increase cargohold for all bots.

I was thinking about some good changes for solo players, as well as for the new player experience. Experienced miner would still require haulers for higher amounts. The harvesters should have a much higher cargo capacity due to the nature of harvesting, having the need to move around much more. These changes would not remove the need for haulers completely.


25% cargo increase for combats- Just a little easier to farm with, take enough ammo etc.

50% increase for haulers- Yes we could use more.

100% increase for miners- Good for new players , no need for haulers

200% increase for harvesters- The need to move around makes this cargo increase welcome for all.

Due to balancing pvp issues, I would restrict the loading of injector charges on miners and harvesters, use the ones in the chamber, shield tank recharged support is good enough.

Teleporter beacons may need higher volumes adjusted.

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Yes, cargohold is one of the issues - i wouldn't solve it that way. After all, it would be just a band-aid fix.

  1. NPCs should not drop so much loot at all.
    - NIC bounty from NPC factions your allied with
    - scavanging extension for fragments and kernels (kernels extractable without module)
    - really rare module drops, but tiered.
    - eventually ammo drops

    Result: combat bots cargo can be kept small, enough to carry ammo and the rare loot items.

  2. Different Cargo types
    - Mineral cargo container on gather bots, that make them not so dependant on hauler alt.
    EvE changed its mining ships for different tasks that way.

    Result: different roles for mining bots, less dependance on hauler an static fieldcontainer for casual mining operations.

  3. Refining table change
    Implement a pre-stage to commodities that can be efficiently refined by any player from raw ore, that has a much smaller volume then the ore.

    Result: Easier hauling of commodities in big quantities.

  4. Injector charges:
    they got other issues... sad

thats just a quick response, because im in a hurry

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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  • JOKE
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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Annihilator wrote:

Yes, cargohold is one of the issues - i wouldn't solve it that way. After all, it would be just a band-aid fix.

  1. NPCs should not drop so much loot at all.
    - NIC bounty from NPC factions your allied with
    - scavanging extension for fragments and kernels (kernels extractable without module)
    - really rare module drops, but tiered.
    - eventually ammo drops

    Result: combat bots cargo can be kept small, enough to carry ammo and the rare loot items.

  2. Different Cargo types
    - Mineral cargo container on gather bots, that make them not so dependant on hauler alt.
    EvE changed its mining ships for different tasks that way.

    Result: different roles for mining bots, less dependance on hauler an static fieldcontainer for casual mining operations.

  3. Refining table change
    Implement a pre-stage to commodities that can be efficiently refined by any player from raw ore, that has a much smaller volume then the ore.

    Result: Easier hauling of commodities in big quantities.

  4. Injector charges:
    they got other issues... sad

thats just a quick response, because im in a hurry

+1

4 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-10-20 15:33:31)

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Your changes our also good Anni. I am just more concerned with the Devs thinking, it takes much more time to implement your ideas (e.g NPC bounties), then they have to think about what other issues might need balancing, like NIC faucets and such.

My suggestions seem simple and quick to do and does not clash with other mechanics.

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

lol

One man army
http://www.perp-kill.net/related/239910
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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Annihilator wrote:

Yes, cargohold is one of the issues - i wouldn't solve it that way. After all, it would be just a band-aid fix.

  1. NPCs should not drop so much loot at all.
    - NIC bounty from NPC factions your allied with
    - scavanging extension for fragments and kernels (kernels extractable without module)
    - really rare module drops, but tiered.
    - eventually ammo drops

    Result: combat bots cargo can be kept small, enough to carry ammo and the rare loot items.

  2. Different Cargo types
    - Mineral cargo container on gather bots, that make them not so dependant on hauler alt.
    EvE changed its mining ships for different tasks that way.

    Result: different roles for mining bots, less dependance on hauler an static fieldcontainer for casual mining operations.

  3. Refining table change
    Implement a pre-stage to commodities that can be efficiently refined by any player from raw ore, that has a much smaller volume then the ore.

    Result: Easier hauling of commodities in big quantities.

  4. Injector charges:
    they got other issues... sad

thats just a quick response, because im in a hurry


+1 to the commodities volume change, they should be smaller, not larger.

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

I'm sorry -1 for Celebro:
like anni said it's just a band-aid-fix, fast and easy implemented but also won't be taken back when better mechanisms come ingame; the other point is if you increase cargo now (again the what everst time didn't count it), it won't change that much, players will still moan about cargo and want cargo increase

before that I want a follow-hauler-bots/pets as band-aid-fix that automatically takes modules and maybe fragments out of your cargo once its deployed; plural for at least two of them: one light carrier, one heavy; extensions could be coupled with NEXUS-ext. like basic squad managem. 5 for the light one, adv. 5 for the mech one (10 basic for assault, 10 adv. for heavy) or introducing a new robotic spec ext. if thats easier.... For all those that want to see new bots - Here would be a chance!

still annis points are the best solution until now - and different cargo types for let's say ammo, materials and the rest should not be that hard to implement.

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

...but Devs like band aid fixes its quick cheap and easy tongue

Anyways this is about cargo hold increase, things like NPC bounties is another good thing, but covered by plasma.

The  volume of raw materials is the same as commodities no wonder there is virtually no commodity market. Why the same volume? Might as well work with raw materials and scrap refining and commodities entirely.

I have calculated commodity volume for a castel:

Commodities required: 4.77U

Castel packaged Volume: 6.00U

Something odd still going on?...

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Celebro wrote:

I have calculated commodity volume for a castel:

Commodities required: 4.77U

Castel packaged Volume: 6.00U

Something odd still going on?...

It is volume. Not mass.

Herp derp.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

10 Reply by Obi Wan Kenobi (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2012-10-21 21:56:46)

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Just to help all the kids out there:

vol·ume  (vlym, -ym)

a. The amount of space occupied by a three-dimensional object or region of space, expressed in cubic units.
b. The capacity of such a region or of a specified container, expressed in cubic units.

mass [mas]  Show IPA
noun
1.
a body of coherent matter, usually of indefinite shape and often of considerable size: a mass of dough.
2.
a collection of incoherent particles, parts, or objects regarded as forming one body: a mass of sand.
3.
aggregate; whole (usually preceded by in the ): People, in the mass, mean well.
4.
a considerable assemblage, number, or quantity: a mass of errors; a mass of troops.
5.
bulk, size, expanse, or massiveness: towers of great mass and strength.

this ends today's class.

Next week: trigonometry

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11 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-10-21 22:28:15)

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

I know very well what volume is. Mass has nothing to do with cargo hold volume either.

What all this means is, you can haul more 'items' on raw materials or commodities, than can you can built items. Now use your head and tell me how that is bad for the market?.

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12 Reply by Weedy (edited by Weedy 2012-10-21 22:37:30)

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

All I can see and say, is that voices of reason have abandoned M2S.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu
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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

just an example:
"Titanium Ore" as such, doesn't exist - Its found as "Rutile" (TiO2) or "Ilmenite"(FeTiO3)

Aside of Titanium, it also contains Oxigen and Iron, and other elements.

If you refine that raws into pure Titanium - theres an obvious mass and volume reduction involved.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • JOKE
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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Weedy wrote:

All I can see and say, is that voices of reason have abandoned M2S.


Weedy, go troll some where else, this is balancing thread not corp dialogue. If you want to challenge my opinions, then do so and explain, not with 'herp derpity, it is volume not mass'.

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  • JOKE
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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Annihilator wrote:

just an example:
"Titanium Ore" as such, doesn't exist - Its found as "Rutile" (TiO2) or "Ilmenite"(FeTiO3)

Aside of Titanium, it also contains Oxigen and Iron, and other elements.

If you refine that raws into pure Titanium - theres an obvious mass and volume reduction involved.

There's some weird chemistry going on in Nia, but that's beside the point, after all it's just a game .The point is the only 'real' trade items are raw materials, refining is not convenient for sale as there are no advantages, hauling built items is not convenient either as it increases volume, better build on site.

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Celebro wrote:

...but Devs like band aid fixes its quick cheap and easy tongue

Anyways this is about cargo hold increase, things like NPC bounties is another good thing, but covered by plasma.

The  volume of raw materials is the same as commodities no wonder there is virtually no commodity market. Why the same volume? Might as well work with raw materials and scrap refining and commodities entirely.

I have calculated commodity volume for a castel:

Commodities required: 4.77U

Castel packaged Volume: 6.00U

Something odd still going on?...

When creating an item from a condensed commodity you add mass to it therefor also adding volume so I don't see a problem here. I will say that rather than changing the amount of cargo space it might be a better option to just lower the U of materials.

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

Celebro wrote:
Weedy wrote:

All I can see and say, is that voices of reason have abandoned M2S.


Weedy, go troll some where else, this is balancing thread not corp dialogue. If you want to challenge my opinions, then do so and explain, not with 'herp derpity, it is volume not mass'.

Why just not admit the apparent flaw in your logic.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

18 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-10-25 11:47:13)

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Re: Increase cargohold for all bots.

bleu wrote:
Celebro wrote:

...but Devs like band aid fixes its quick cheap and easy tongue

Anyways this is about cargo hold increase, things like NPC bounties is another good thing, but covered by plasma.

The  volume of raw materials is the same as commodities no wonder there is virtually no commodity market. Why the same volume? Might as well work with raw materials and scrap refining and commodities entirely.

I have calculated commodity volume for a castel:

Commodities required: 4.77U

Castel packaged Volume: 6.00U

Something odd still going on?...

When creating an item from a condensed commodity you add mass to it therefor also adding volume so I don't see a problem here. I will say that rather than changing the amount of cargo space it might be a better option to just lower the U of materials.


I don't see your logic in this, is not like manufacturing should be like inflating balloons. Assembled bots I can understand, but not packaged.  If they keep on lowering Volume on materials , then the problem just gets worse, so no, need to increase cargo holds.

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