26 (edited by Karl Krieger 2012-09-15 01:04:15)

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

1 - Sensor strenght bonus (10% per level)
Blue bots already have the shortest range. Moving forward often mean entering the 800m range of some zenith, and we get completely shut-down. I would like to suggest we get a passive sensor strengh bonus to resist Ewar and move into efficient range.

We already have the strongest Ewar strenght on Vagabond (excepted a particular Zenith MK2 fit), wouldn't that be logical our faction would also be in a leading position of ECCM ?

2 - Demob Resistance ( 5% per level)
Short range also mean relying on speed to catch oponents. If we fits plates, we are too slow. If we fits lightframe, a single demob negate our advantage.
If a medium plate give 25% demob resist, why not give us the equivalent, without the added HP?

3 - Passive Health Regeneration ( (1% HP per level / 10 sec )
Being the faction specialised in repairing ourselves, it sounds logical we could have self repairing bots. This also helps on keeping the bots light and fast without the weight of repairer.
If you do not like the % value, I would then suggest a fixed value, influenced by both repair skills. ( to improve HP repaired, and reduce cooldown. It would basically work like a free repair module working permanently.)

4 - 6% Shield bonus per level

5 - FIX FALLOFF and the weapons associated. View annihilators charts!
Clearly shows that short range versions are beyond getting any usefull benefits from either the bots 50% or with maxed extensions to go with that.

These are the suggestions being thrown around atm. I left out hit dispersion becuse it would mostly impact short range weapons against small bots,wich would be a small part of the overall gameplay.

The numbers and percentages are all up for discussion, personally i think a 2-3% demob resistance would be one of several possible replacements. The one thing we all agree on seems to be a wish for the falloff bonus to be replaced and i hope the devs take notice of this and keep it in mind if and when the robots are once again up for a slight review.

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

I was trolling with the shield bonus BTW.

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28 (edited by Macavity 2012-09-15 00:17:54)

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

because you feel it would be OP to grant 60% shield absorb,i presume?
or because you feel due to the way the accumulator works, that it is implied to be just as useless as the falloff bones? Even if you were trollig,just for the records sake, could you answer the whole post?
Shields might work,if memory serves i have seen kains in shields,though mostly closer to the release of the game and thats a long time ago. Is it that your proposal is to powerful,is that why posted that shield suggestion?

If you have an ancient number of ideas from back when perhaps even you were still around,beta/early access etc, you could suggest something that isnt trolling atleat.

I cant imagine you find that  falloff bonus all that ineresting. So how much would you change it?

What sounds feasible at this moments seems to be the 3% to demob chance,


Help us out instead and figure out more suggestions on how you can alter this bonus to put it in line with the others, In terms of how much value each factions pilot pinds in his bot, the blues really seem to feel shafted with the fallof faction bonus.

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Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Please dont troll me and/or derail the thread from its purpose. For blue bots to voice their concern over this particular bonus. The devs have balanced the bots before and this is just intended as a thread to bring all concerns for nuimqol under one roof,have the devs read it and hopefully make some more inspiring and effecient changes should they be found neccesary to do so.

Its ultimately up to the devs,and balance concers,what we eventually get if infact we get anything at all. With or without another look at various robots bonuses.

Trolling in here just serves no purpose..

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

it does...

this topic is probably as old as the bonus is on that bot - and thats since it was changed from

"all weapons optimal range 5%" to
"magnetic weapon optimal range 5%" to
"magnetic weapon falloff range 5%" to finally
"all weapons falloff 5%"


like i said - its not the bonus that is wrong... its the almost non-existant falloff range on almost all weapons ingame that makes it so pointless.

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Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

I took away the "troll" suggestion and added yours anni.
Still i feel,personally, that falloff should be resolved mainly by altering the weapons.
The bonus to falloff we get from extensions should be enough if the aforementioned doesnt miss any glaring gaps.

However,what do you think anni of replacing it with something wich makes it less difficult to close range?
Buffing armor repairs likely wont happen. a 3-5% (3% seems most balanced?) per level demob resistance,
and perhaps a very nominal speed increase of the bot is in order?

Im just brainstorming now and trying to get yours and others ideas going. smile

And anni i agree that falloff should be changed but im still not convinced that i find falloff bonuses as being in line with other mechs bonuses,regardless of a fix on weapons innate falloff. What do you and everyone else reading think? Chip in,by all means smile

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Annihilator wrote:

it does...

this topic is probably as old as the bonus is on that bot - and thats since it was changed from

"all weapons optimal range 5%" to
"magnetic weapon optimal range 5%" to
"magnetic weapon falloff range 5%" to finally
"all weapons falloff 5%"


like i said - its not the bonus that is wrong... its the almost non-existant falloff range on almost all weapons ingame that makes it so pointless.

Either way,theres a faction walking around with a sub-par/useless bonus right now and i think the fact i have to bring up this old thread is a problem in and of itself. Shouldnt either the bonus,or the falloff numbers on weapons have been fixed by now?.

In your list of old changes, what prevents from reverting it back to 2% optimal range per level or something similar.

I still personally find the Demob resistance to be more in line with what the bots intended for, and aslong as its not a 5% bonus it should not remove the ability to slow us just make it less reliable and thus providing us with the opening we need to close in for an attack.

33 (edited by Industrial Sector 2012-09-17 09:17:02)

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Why not just make it 2% to max speed per level and decrease demob resistance then?

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Kains and Mesmers are not sub par, at least as a fully maxxed out blue pilot I do not feel that way.

I do think what your seeing tho is that when you go against red you see a major bias toward them winning, and rightly so.

The nerds came out of the flavor of the month mentality of speed kills, and at that time it did, until players adjusted there fits to compensate for the speed and high alpha damage of the kain.

Do I think the kain needs some loving, yes I do, but only because I would like to see the days of them being king of this hill returned.

How the DEV's wish to do that is up to them.

The Gifter
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Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Merkle wrote:

Kains and Mesmers are not sub par, at least as a fully maxxed out blue pilot I do not feel that way.

I do think what your seeing tho is that when you go against red you see a major bias toward them winning, and rightly so.

Kain vs Artemis = bias towards Artemis
Kain vs Tyrannos = strong bias towards Tyrannos if shielded

Kain is even required to drop a weaponslot if like to equip a drainer or neuter to overcome at least shielded castel.

For Messmer situation is other, but you don't see that much Messmer in Pvp atm.

36

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Goffer wrote:
Merkle wrote:

Kains and Mesmers are not sub par, at least as a fully maxxed out blue pilot I do not feel that way.

I do think what your seeing tho is that when you go against red you see a major bias toward them winning, and rightly so.

Kain vs Artemis = bias towards Artemis
Kain vs Tyrannos = strong bias towards Tyrannos if shielded

Kain is even required to drop a weaponslot if like to equip a drainer or neuter to overcome at least shielded castel.

For Messmer situation is other, but you don't see that much Messmer in Pvp atm.

an artemis mk2 cant kill a kain mk2 rep tank ... which is alright, but any kind of balance change should be considered carefully.

not being able to overcome shields is an entirely different issue though (one that's relevant for both reds and greens).

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Goffer wrote:
Merkle wrote:

Kains and Mesmers are not sub par, at least as a fully maxxed out blue pilot I do not feel that way.

I do think what your seeing tho is that when you go against red you see a major bias toward them winning, and rightly so.

Kain vs Artemis = bias towards Artemis
Kain vs Tyrannos = strong bias towards Tyrannos if shielded

Kain is even required to drop a weaponslot if like to equip a drainer or neuter to overcome at least shielded castel.

For Messmer situation is other, but you don't see that much Messmer in Pvp atm.

Kain vs Artemis , usually the kain should lose as for the color variation (also the kain can simply put a thermal plate in and it has a much higher success rate vs the kain.)

As for the Kain vs Tyrannos all one has to do is time your shots, and you will nearly insta pop the tyrannos, as they have zero dps with a shield up.  As for the Kain vs castel, the castel is being used in this case as a demobing bot, as in he has friends and your most likely dead.  The troiar also uses this same tactic to kill a solo person as well.

You will know if you fit a castel that you cannot tank and dps in the same build, you have to pick one or the other, especially in the more extreme builds.

Attempting to say that mesmers are not used in PVP is just simply just wrong, I don't know if your intentionally trying to miss lead other pilots or if your just out of the PVP game.  In either case blue bots have there place on the playing field, just as all the other colors do.

Back to the topic at hand do the blue bots need a change of turret falloff bonus?

Ill leave that up to others to discuss in more detail.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

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Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Tyrannous simply need to run demob and drainers then wait for the kain to cap out before shooting. Kains can't do enough dps to break the shield same goes for tyrannous vs artemis mesmers on the other hand can do enough dps to break shields

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

I would suggest blue bots get a demob resist since they are ment for speed and either raise there dmg or lower shield obsorb ratios for all bots

40 (edited by Rex Amelius 2012-09-19 00:09:31)

Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Not so related to bonuses, but how about modifying those useless missile slots to fit neuts/drainers?

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Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Rex Amelius wrote:

Not so related to bonuses, but how about modifying those useless missile slots to fit neuts/drainers?

then you get mesmer light wink

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Re: Kain/Mesmer: replacing the ''turret falloff bonus''

Rex Amelius wrote:

Not so related to bonuses, but how about modifying those useless missile slots to fit neuts/drainers?

+1