Re: Terraforming with buildings

Ville: I understand your concern, but leaving this alone wouldn't solve the "make terraform walls to the max completely around the base" issue as you say. I just told them the proper defense against "turret terraforming" a few posts above, so the only thing they would have to do is adapt to it.

However I reckon that by leaving this like it is, we would cater for an idiotic anti-mechanic, which noone wants but would be forced to use.

We have to find a different solution for both the vertical wall stupidity and the "standing there to prevent terraforming" problem.

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

God Zoom why do you devs have to knee Jerk all the time hmm

God Obi, why do you call every fast decision kneejerking? Should we twiddle our thumbs for a week just so you have your peace of mind? We're open for other suggestions, if you know one.

28 (edited by Alexadar 2012-09-11 15:13:08)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
Alexadar wrote:

Modular walls, as i proposed, plus gates, will solve this problem and make this game much wonderful.

I have to agree TF walls is a cop out & i would prefer we be able to do it the right way.

edit: gah im agreeing with some one from CHAOS ...does that make me a little bit russian? wheres my Vodka ! tongue

no, its not make you a bit russian, as well as me.

I proposing to:
0. Reimburse all materials and money what was spent in MPC, before next change
1. Introduce modular walls: 10x10m cubes and ramps with excellent slope. They can be connected to each-other in any side. Simply to say: you will assemble your own fence with the helps of a bricks. Fence with any with and height and length. Offc, restrictions like power consumption or so, will disallow to spam them everywhere.
2. Modular gates.
3. Artillery and anti-artillery tools.
4. Force terraforming to be used only in adapting the environment for the construction. Offence and defense terraforming should be removed from game by introducing natural erosion and so.

edit: if you ask "why you using terraforming in offence and defence?" ill answer "Because i can" smile

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Dev Zoom, I understand.  Thanks.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

30 (edited by Khader Khan 2012-09-11 16:02:08)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Ville wrote:

They told you with deployable walls on Kentagura they didn't want  this kind of design but yet you still did it!  So why the special treatment now??  You do thus change now.  There are a lot of 62 and war guys who need to be reimbursed for some walls.


QFFT (quoted for F*&%$* Truth)

This is the main reason you don't see 62nd or War or 12 out there building a freaking base I'm not being this games new feature tester on the live server ever again.

Heck if you hadn't flipped the script on CIR and made them move thier base we might still see them.

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

Re: Terraforming with buildings

N0 Clue wrote:

This "I want, I want, or I'm gonna leave" attitude reminds me so much of the Majority of the Eve Online Community... Sorry to say though, but you don't always get what you want.

wait so.... you actually have a clue.... Sir your not living up to your name. GET OUT! smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Terraforming with buildings

WOW! Im sorry Zoom but if you guys really nerf this feature then you are setting a bad precedence. Enough people getting together to *** and complain and get what you want. Im sorry but if you let an enemy build ANYTHING next to your gamma base then you DESERVE all that it brings with it. Last I checked it was a mechanic that works on ALL islands. Not just ones that certain people inhabit. It sux when things happen to you first but oh well. Just because someone else thought of a new way to use something that is available to all and everyone can do doesnt mean it should be nerfed.

Re: Terraforming with buildings

DEV Zoom wrote:

Alright, after some discussion here we have decided to take out the self-flattening feature of buildings in the next patch. This won't affect the requirements for maximum slope when placing buildings, so you will still have to terraform a rough place for them. This will only mean that you will have to plan ahead even more and anticipate the fact that you won't be able to flatten a slope after you have placed a building.

OMG now it will take us 2hrs of smothing for each building please stop changing things to each corps benifits. We (BOS) could cry on the forums after each attack but instead we figure trial&error and make changes to our design

34 (edited by Hunter 2012-09-12 05:31:16)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Guys... Do you hear yourself? About what you ask? You want to be able terraform with buildings deploying?.. If you tell this to some newfresh human - he will laugh on you (especialy architector). I undertand why this applied by russian corp - because this is old tradition (treated teeth through the ***).

From your mouths it sounds a bit in another words: Let us the tools and measures to be able breakthrough the walls.
...So you affraid that devs will indtroduce unpenetrateable mechanic.

In the one hand we all can to understand you. You looking for good fights, good sieges and so on. Yes, there are should not be an immortal bases. It should be destroyable anyway.

In the other hand:
1) How many ppl you can bring to siege? - few. You should remember that current mechanic designed for greater number of siege squads. DeV's should not to adjust the game mechanic every time when population is changes.
2) Why don't you want to explain your problem and try to find logical conclusion? For example increasing the distance between buildings and ability to terraform closely around it?

TL;DR:
-what is perpetuum?
-nah... that game where you can terraform with buildings.
-?????

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

35 (edited by Aye Pod 2012-09-12 06:55:02)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

What I am tired of Hunter is people are complaining to the DEV's that somebody is using a building and all of its associated game mechanics in a manner in which THEY think is inappropriate and is therefore wrong and should be changed. If this mechanic was a problem then it would have been addressed when the first couple of buildings were placed. Not when someone came up with the idea to use it to siege someone elses gamma.
Just like you said lets address the real issues here.
You guys spend loads of time and nic designing your bases so no one can easily enter and you forgot to account for this game mechanic.
And now you want the DEVS to nerf this mechanic because its easier to cry about it than go and change your base accordingly.
Oh, I forgot, DEVS if you dont change it then I quit.

You know that game Perpetuum?
The one where you can terraform things?
No, the one where everyone cries and threatens to quit because they come up 2nd.

36 (edited by Hunter 2012-09-12 07:21:48)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Aye Pod wrote:

If this mechanic was a problem then it would have been addressed when the first couple of buildings were placed. Not when someone came up with the idea to use it to siege someone elses gamma.

hidden exploit.

Aye Pod wrote:

Oh, I forgot, DEVS if you dont change it then I quit.

Oh no!!! You used your last one argument! Now we all should agree with you and keep current mechanic... Especially DEVs... They so scared... so scared... lol

You don't want to understand. I will try to explain (again) in another words: The game should not require some special knowledge, but it should not work contrary to common sense. Try to describe and imagine for yourself how it would be work in real life?.. smile

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Terraforming with buildings

I have no clue what your all talking about.... hmm [Seriously though.. I don't!]

Happy Obi? tongue

38 (edited by QuantaCat 2012-09-12 08:41:22)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

But honestly now: who is all affected by the smoothing TF loss? now you have to plan your terraforming more?

Also, our bases are destroyable, its just that nobody has tried yet.

Or, to say more to the point, nobody ever thinks of risking their bots in attacking a base.
Seriously, I want you guys to break our defences, so we can rebuild and make it better big_smile

EDIT:

@Zoom: I dont think there is a problem as we stand. Its all a matter of analyzing a base, and finding a weak spot. Putting all your turrets in one corner to focus on the entrance, leaves the rest of the base unattended. Also, I dont know anyone that leaves an agent parked somewhere 24/7 just to prevent TFing; just that its possible.

Re: Terraforming with buildings

QuantaCat wrote:

But honestly now: who is all affected by the smoothing TF loss? now you have to plan your terraforming more?

Also, our bases are destroyable, its just that nobody has tried yet.

Or, to say more to the point, nobody ever thinks of risking their bots in attacking a base.
Seriously, I want you guys to break our defences, so we can rebuild and make it better big_smile

(... skipped])

lol! what? In current terraforming mechanics "moardor style" bases is undestroyable(main reason - low efficiency of tile teraforming modules). And main problem here is altitude. Attacking base through entrance full of EW and battle turrets with 2-3 repair nodes on each is a suicide for any number of attackers(no matter 10  or 100 bots). The only one chance for attackers to break through entrance is to bring 1 000 plated bots close to turret and wipe them with AoE alpha strike, repeat untill last turret dies (just kidding big_smile).
    In case when there are no chance to get through entrance (with low numbers 30-100 Heavy bots for sure!) - there is only one thing left - terraform wall. But it's not possible with beacon(200 -300m limit depending on altitude and buildings locations) and also with tile charges (various limitations also depending of altitude).
   So, any lame moardoar-style base with 20-30 turrets is undestroyable in current game mechanics, (even with tools  that was used by us last days).
   At least theoretically, do you imagine how you can break through such a defense in the forehead? smile

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Yup, I can imagine several ways to enter that base.

Re: Terraforming with buildings

LMAO - Hunter I used to think you were wise. You keep trying to compare Perp to RL. It seems to be working for you.

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Aye Pod wrote:

LMAO - Hunter I used to think you were wise. You keep trying to compare Perp to RL. It seems to be working for you.

The abstraction must have its limits.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Seems odd to use the building of a structure as a means to breach defenses. I saw another thread about Chaos undocking from base over and over to enter enemy base. That seems odd as well.

Are there siege mechs in the works yet? Rather than all this nerfing, how about providing attackers some new tools? Perhaps some anti-terraforming siege weapon that can blast down walls...

Just saying. Looking forward to seeing more of these mechanics up close rather than from my current forum seat. See you in game soon...

Sparking to other games

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Rex Amelius wrote:

Seems odd to use the building of a structure as a means to breach defenses. I saw another thread about Chaos undocking from base over and over to enter enemy base. That seems odd as well.

Are there siege mechs in the works yet? Rather than all this nerfing, how about providing attackers some new tools? Perhaps some anti-terraforming siege weapon that can blast down walls...

Just saying. Looking forward to seeing more of these mechanics up close rather than from my current forum seat. See you in game soon...

Get out Rex, sane discussion and ideas are not welcome here.

Get out.   fuuu

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Can you all just mine something and get along. We asked the Devs for much needed PVE content and a new player experience , theirs enough PVP tools for a while. Yeah siege mechs and the like sounds cool, but don't hold your breath too long, Rex.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Celebro wrote:

Can you all just mine something and get along. We asked the Devs for much needed PVE content and a new player experience , theirs enough PVP tools for a while. Yeah siege mechs and the like sounds cool, but don't hold your breath too long, Rex.

But But I would go hunting rats in my shiny new siege bot too.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Terraforming with buildings

Agree on need for PvE updates and new player focused updates. I'm not holding my breath on new mechs.

But it occurs to me that it would make sense if an attacker-built structure could breach enemy defenses/walls. I guess that's what a "Siege Tower" would be. Hmmmm.

Sparking to other games

48 (edited by Blackomen 2012-09-13 07:09:29)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

I've already figured out a counter-exploit that 100% prevents this exploit as well as CHAOS's other exploit using the terminal undock. (There is always another exploit to counter an exploit. tongue ) However I believe it is best to remove this temporarily until a better system is implemented. As the solution is a pain in the a** to do.

(In the event that the patch is going to take a while, send me a pm in-game and I'll explain the counter-exploit design.)

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

49 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2012-09-13 08:49:25)

Re: Terraforming with buildings

DEV Zoom wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

God Zoom why do you devs have to knee Jerk all the time hmm

God Obi, why do you call every fast decision kneejerking? Should we twiddle our thumbs for a week just so you have your peace of mind? We're open for other suggestions, if you know one.


<3 you Zoom smile

And here I was thinking Oh hes not going to bite .... & i missed ya post! tongue


And no atm i dont have any ideas tho ill post if i get hit by one!! big_smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Terraforming with buildings

i have to agree with hunter. listen to yourselves.

terraforming walls to the sky is the same bullshit as levling them by deploying buildings.
this happens because both sides have thrown reason out of the window. but honestly i have expected that to hapen. because players always tend to overdo things if they can. and thats the reason because the devs have a problem now. i thought my wall on yuraion on the beginning was big. but it had reason and no stupid mount doom walls. and it kept with a certain design. when you look at the rest then ask yourself if thats the way this game should look like. yes you most likly dont care. well some ppl do and especially the devs. then try so sell a game that looks that way. yes now we need mechanics to prevent all that. not because it would work without them, just because you overdid it in any way possible. too bad but thats what you did and you have to face the consequenses.
if your child draws paintings at your wall you have to teach it a lesson. what would you tell your child if it tells you: "i did it because i can"

you both did wrong. simple as that.