1 (edited by Kokomut 2012-09-12 20:56:05)

Topic: Gamma-loto #4

A few changes from feedbacks. M2S members are excluded from participating.

Running from Sept 5th-12th Server time. Drawing held on the 13th.

Ticket price is 100,000 nic each, sent to character "kokoturtle"

MAX OF 20 TICKET per CHARACTER. Any additional amount would be refunded back to the character.

Spreadsheet will be updated at least once a day. Give it a few hours if you don't see your name on the sheet.

Three winners will be announce with 60% to 1st place, 30% to 2nd place and 10% to 3rd place

Prize pool is equal to 100% of the ticket sold + additional 25m

The process of determining winner will be:
Modulo of the sum of first 10 qualifying number taken in General Chat on day of the drawing by the number of ticket sold.

A number qualifies if:
1-any number starting from 0
2-Maximum of 2 consecutive number will by the same character

Repeat process for 2nd place and 3rd

A spreadsheet to keep track of your ticket number and progress of the sales can be seen here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … WTFE#gid=2

You can request specific numbers if it's not taken. However if the not enough tickets are sold to reach your number it will be rounded down to the end of the list.

Donations of both nic and bots are welcome to grant additional prizes
Good luck agents.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Discrimination! Just because we've won every time doesn't mean we should be excluded. tongue

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

time to log onto an Alt!!! yarr

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Gamma-loto #4

It's a  scam

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Ville wrote:

It's a  scam

I'm going to have to agree with you on that, especially after seeing the winning number selection method.

I am *not* a specialist in the area but I know a thing or two about randomness.

Having people shout out pseudo random numbers is not a good idea, most numbers will be heavily biased, then adding them up makes no sense at all since that does not affect the modulo in a significant way. At least multiply them or something.

Now why I am even talking about improving the algorithm when www.random.org exists, of course that would put the pressure on trusting whoever goes to that site to generate numbers.

Designing a solid way of generating random numbers that is totally unbiased and tamper proof is not easy, I have given it some thought and come up with a process that gives good numbers and is verifiable.

1. Use external source for random seed, real loto for example
2. Concat the numbers as seed for a mersenne-twister
3. If they have some extra numbers, multiply them and discard that many random numbers
4. Get random numbers

This would mean tying up the timing to some real world event, locking entries before numbers are picked. It would also mean that we could all verify the results by knowing the source of the seed and the algorithm.

Python 3.2 example code:

import random
def Generate(seed, discard, players, n):
    random.seed(seed)
        for i in range(0, discard):
            random.randint(1, players)
        for i in range(0, n):
            print(str(i) + " " + str(random.randint(1, players)))

Used like this if numbers were 3, 8, 11, 13, 22, 27, 35 + 7, 24 (Finnish lottery row week 38)
players 42 and prices 3

Generate(381113222735, 7*24, 42, 3)
0 10
1 7
2 31

sure this was just a quick example, for instance the above code can produce duplicate numbers. If that is an issue then you should just fix that.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Thanks for the feedback, gave me an idea on winner selection for the next one.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

he could start a video stream, post the link so all interested can watch, then go to that random site and use it^^

Re: Gamma-loto #4

AnniXa wrote:

he could start a video stream, post the link so all interested can watch, then go to that random site and use it^^

9 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2012-09-08 13:25:35)

Re: Gamma-loto #4

isnt math just a higher form of black magic?

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

10 (edited by Kokomut 2012-09-13 16:07:38)

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Below are transcripts from the lottery, dropped the decimal on the numbers provided.

I do need help on getting the winning number for 2nd and 3rd place. The different calculators I use to cross check produced different results on such large numbers. Anyone help would be appreciated.

[15:52:40] <Kokomut> This is for 3rd place drawing
[15:53:09] <Kokomut> taking first 10 numbers, only first 2 consecutive number from any character
[15:53:16] <Kokomut> from same character*
[15:53:31] <Jasdemi> 43658324765834765836475832475683245560
[15:54:16] <Kraed> 3
[15:54:28] <Jasdemi> 1337
[15:54:32] <Macavity> 783
[15:54:45] <Karl Krieger> 9966
[15:54:55] <Jasdemi> 768
[15:54:57] <Macavity> 5783
[15:55:00] <Jasdemi> 0
[15:55:05] <Kraed> 340658712498674392068719087690187690183749673908564
[15:55:12] <Karl Krieger> 3763


[15:55:35] <Kokomut> this is for 2nd place
[15:55:43] <Arkil> 572390534858239075398758943128
[15:55:44] <Kraed> 1
[15:55:44] <Macavity> 6661
[15:55:45] <Jasdemi> 345
[15:55:46] <Jasdemi> 657
[15:55:52] <Macavity> 777
[15:55:58] <Karl Krieger> 8999
[15:55:59] <Jasdemi> 9001
[15:56:14] <Karl Krieger> 23
[15:56:16] <Kraed> 5


[15:56:23] <Kokomut> this is for first place drawing
[15:56:28] <Jasdemi> 456
[15:56:30] <Kraed> 16
[15:56:32] <Jasdemi> 321
[15:56:33] <Macavity> 112
[15:56:38] <Karl Krieger> 37932
[15:56:39] <Jasdemi> 911
[15:56:40] <Arkil> 5934802578934
[15:56:40] <Karl Krieger> 123
[15:56:45] <Macavity> 6697
[15:56:53] <Macavity> 34561




3rd place
sum = 340658712498718050393484922456024166016225357176527
Mod = 105
winner = ??


2nd place
SUM = 572390534858239075398758969597
Mod = 105
winner = ??

1st place (LUPUS CAELI)
SUM = 5934802660063
Mod = 105
winner = 88

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Scam.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

If no viable solution can be found that can be cross checked by at least 2 different sources within the next 8 hours, a 100% refund will be issued to the buyers on all tickets purchased. Lupus Caeli will still receive his 60% coming out of my pocket.

The upcoming lottery will be revised with new rules.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

might i suggest that you take the ridiculous numbers that make your calculator burn, and instead use the timestamp for them as the number as a fair and random solution if nothing else works? I cant see how that could be considered as anything but random.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Or the forum timestamps for ville's reply,your own and mine?

Re: Gamma-loto #4

why not simply take the first 10 digits or so of the long numbers - or the last 10 digits ...or ask in GC for a number 5-15 from 10 ppl - take the average and use that many digits from the large numbers ...

In future simply apply that - numbers greater than 'x' digits will be truncated..

16 (edited by Kokomut 2012-09-14 14:30:24)

Re: Gamma-loto #4

people will cry foul if i just changed the rule like that since technically I will determine the winning number.

I will refund all tickets purchased and send the 60% to you Lupus Caeli. (DONE)



The system will be improved for next drawing.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Kokomut wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, gave me an idea on winner selection for the next one.

http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/132

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Koko, do a live stream when rolling winners via random.org next time plx. Would be fun. big_smile

Re: Gamma-loto #4

Burial wrote:

Koko, do a live stream when rolling winners via random.org next time plx. Would be fun. big_smile

+1

I suggested that too, but he went with this half-assed math crap.

Re: Gamma-loto #4

The math is also a good way imo, just some people have hard time figuring out how it works. wink

Re: Gamma-loto #4

scam