Topic: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Cutting straight to the point-

Yes, I am a new player.

Honestly, I am very surprised that the initial introduction to this game is so dry and stale. 

There is nothing that grabs me in the first 3 hours of playing.  DEVS - If you want this game to succeed then you need to really polish and revamp the game for the new player.  I have been playing for a couple days and here is my observation:

1.    I spend 90% of my time running back and forth in missions
    a.    This is boring.  Enemies are spread way to far apart or I run way to slow.
2.     10% actually playing / fighting
    a.    Do you expect people to stick around when this the content in the first 3 hours? 
3.    I finished my Training missions
    a.    Nicely done, rewarding with new mechs
4.    Post training is where I spend 90% of my time running around.
    a.    This is where you lose people
    b.    I spoke to a subscribed player, he said that most people quit before they finish training.
5.    Hardly anything to shoot.
    a.    You have me running around all over the place and I am hardly actually fighting.
    b.    Your videos on the internet show so much action/combat and all I am doing is running around.
    c.    When you advertise with the videos on your website with fast paced music, you should really make the   game play similar, this is so misleading.  Current game play for a new player is BORING.
    d.    Lack of goals and purpose  - yes I am aware this is a sand box however, for a new player you need to give them something to bite into and push toward.  If I hadn't played Eve Online for years I don't know how I would have figured half this stuff out.

Seriously consider the fact that if you consider my comments you would have a winning game here.  I really think Perpetuum has massive potential. 
As it stands now I really like this game and I want to give it a chance however, if you do not cater to the new players your doomed.

Recommendations:
1.    More enemies to kill
2.    Much less travel to find mobs
3.    Missions are ok… I like the retrieval ones kinda puts a purpose however, missions are still empty and provide no feel of progression
4.    Help get the new person started where subscribed players cant
    a.    Suggest a path for training to get them started.
    b.    Make missions more action pact and less traveling around
This game could make really contend with Eve online if you could retain new players once you advertise, as it stands now a new player (Like myself) gets bored of running around for 90% of the time played, which is the most boring thing ever!!!

2 (edited by Alauris 2012-07-08 14:35:03)

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

I agree and I think that would be sufficient to increase the speed of  all robots by 1/3 (or give us warp drives:))

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

do you agree that one reason for the whole traveling is, that you ALWAYS have to go back to your homebase?

i mean not only to resupply on ammo, but also to pick up a new mission, to finish most of those your got, or simply to get your "income" which is 90% loot that fills your robots cargo in a few seconds?.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Reasons to return to home base:
Travel time 90% of play time is:
1. not enough cargo space, have to unload in order to be efficient in making money or resources
2. Get ammo
3. Missions
  a. Would help to get multiple missions at a time
4. Exploring which I do not mind however mission markers are not accurate for area missions.

Summary: 
You have people who read or hear about this game and are very interested and intrigued by the ideas in the game.  They log in, still curious....  They play the beginner content and start to get bored.  WHY?
Hardly anything to fight.  Things to fight are not even remotely close to the station in relation to the speed you walk.  So you have NEW players trying to enjoy the game, make progress and they are dragged down by having to walk all over the place just to get to the quest location/mob. 

Devs- I really think you have done a great job with Perp... but the area where people begin is super boring and your not going to hook new players the way it is. 

Once again, I love exploration/adventure however, I am spending way to much time walking to mission objectives, hardly encountering anything surprising or anything at all.

Suggestion:   add a lot more bots all over, make them slightly easier to kill and adjust the loot drops if needed.
This creates more action, more excitement, larger battles, the illusion of more loot, satisfaction, progression!

IMO... this would help retain new players.

I hope this game can be adjusted, in its current state in the noob area, there is nothing that grabs and hooks a new person at all.

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Annihilator wrote:

do you agree that one reason for the whole traveling is, that you ALWAYS have to go back to your homebase?

i mean not only to resupply on ammo, but also to pick up a new mission, to finish most of those your got, or simply to get your "income" which is 90% loot that fills your robots cargo in a few seconds?.


I can never tell when this guy is being sarcastic, lol!! At least he has the disclaimer in his sig!!

To Arkangel:

You've hit the nail on the head. I rage-quit Eve Online and found this little game. Although I like it, it just doesn't grab me enough to make me want to re-sub the next cycle. For exactly the reasons you mention. From what I read in GC and see on the forums, they've got the PvP game to a point that the PvPr's are mostly happy, except for maybe the TP changes on the Gamma islands.

I agree the training content needs a major reworking to keep someone who has no idea of what an MMO game is about, as well as the people who've played other MMO's. I know some will say to get into a corp with other people. But some people, myself included don't want to do that for various reasons.

I could continue to ramble on but agree with OP 100% so I'll stop here big_smile

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

One thing that I remember really struck me when I started playing (and the tutorial has been updated since then) was the dev's hostility to any kind of solo play.  Everything seemed to be built around the idea that things should be a logistical nightmare.  When anyone mentioned this, the standard response was "this is not a solo game".  I take it that the noble goal was to encourage cooperation but imo the real effect was to make casual and single account play somewhat unrewarding.

+1
-Confucius

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

I'm always amazed by how many people actually likes to play solo in mmorpgs. I'ts noticeable everywhere. There's nothing won by fighting it.
I've tried soloing at points and it's not rewarding. After the 5th or 6th logistic run somewhere I just start thinking that I should do something fun with my time instead. sad

If I however look back and try to recollect the best and most fun gaming experiences I've had. It's always Perp that comes to mind.

When playing alone you want to shoot yourself in the foot.
When playing with others in combined efforts this game shines.

Devs ARE working on more pve content. Hopefully we'll get great fun in the future for all playstyles.

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

I really think that the nerf to spawns on all the islands that happened ages ago was the point where what the OP is talking about occured.

I remember when I first started you had to learn quick that the NPCs didnt mess around.  I lost quite a few castels in the early days but it was exciting, heart in your throat stuff.  Running out in your new bot to kill or be killed and getting away with 3hp got the heart going and hooked me.

Looking at the alpha 1 islands now its Arkhes every where (NPCs).  You need to go a long way to find a spawn that will give you a run for your money.  Bring back the alpha spawns close to the terminals and the roaming mobs/observers.  First time I meet an observer it supprised the ^$#* outa me, was only a Baph but trying to work out a way to kill them in a light bot gave me hours of fun.

Not sure this has made sence but I have had dealings with a few new players over the last couple of weeks trying to get some of them to stay, but trying to find a spawn close to terminal enough as they need to use plates due to only starting out which means they are going slow so a 10min walk or longer looking for a spawn for just the 3U cargo of a light bot minus the ammo they are carrying I will admit is very dull.

Hope they bring back the good old days...

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Egil wrote:

I'm always amazed by how many people actually likes to play solo in mmorpgs. I'ts noticeable everywhere. There's nothing won by fighting it.
I've tried soloing at points and it's not rewarding. After the 5th or 6th logistic run somewhere I just start thinking that I should do something fun with my time instead. sad

If I however look back and try to recollect the best and most fun gaming experiences I've had. It's always Perp that comes to mind.

When playing alone you want to shoot yourself in the foot.
When playing with others in combined efforts this game shines.

Devs ARE working on more pve content. Hopefully we'll get great fun in the future for all playstyles.


Not all new players want to join a corp right away, and they shouldn't have to.  If they want to go to Beta or Gamma sure they will need to.  Staying on Aplha for the first weeks/months there should be no reason to join a corp, hell they may even decide to make their own corp which can only be good for the game.

10 (edited by Arkangel 2012-07-10 13:27:48)

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

KUSTOMROD wrote:

I really think that the nerf to spawns on all the islands that happened ages ago was the point where what the OP is talking about occured.

I remember when I first started you had to learn quick that the NPCs didnt mess around.  I lost quite a few castels in the early days but it was exciting, heart in your throat stuff.  Running out in your new bot to kill or be killed and getting away with 3hp got the heart going and hooked me.

Looking at the alpha 1 islands now its Arkhes every where (NPCs).  You need to go a long way to find a spawn that will give you a run for your money.  Bring back the alpha spawns close to the terminals and the roaming mobs/observers.  First time I meet an observer it supprised the ^$#* outa me, was only a Baph but trying to work out a way to kill them in a light bot gave me hours of fun.

Not sure this has made sence but I have had dealings with a few new players over the last couple of weeks trying to get some of them to stay, but trying to find a spawn close to terminal enough as they need to use plates due to only starting out which means they are going slow so a 10min walk or longer looking for a spawn for just the 3U cargo of a light bot minus the ammo they are carrying I will admit is very dull.

Hope they bring back the good old days...

It sounds like it was more fun prior to the nerf of the Alpha spawns.
I enjoy adventure, danger, exploration, surprises. 

In regards to not joining a corp or playing solo:
People should have a choice in a Sandbox game to go solo (to a certain point) or join a group.  This is not a theme park game.

Seriously, Devs:

I am sure you guys can figure out a way in which you can add MANY more bots in all areas and make things more exciting for new players.  Keep in mind that whatever change you make cannot be limited to the NOOB islands, you must make it to the next tier of islands as well so they do not have culture shock when they progress....

It is pretty simple, if you want to retain an audience they must be entertained.  You need to add more bots to the areas and PLEASE at least give them different visuals for fun factor...  Why not make some big and that look intimidating, how about mini bosses or rare spawns that are not on the edge of the map?   
When I or a new player logs into Perpetuum, I want to be excited, I want to log in with my friends (By the way I am trying to get a few people to play, but they are not at all impressed, which makes me sad) and together set out from the station searching for roaming mini bosses and their guards, or rare spawns and work with each other for a reward...   The placement of mobs is horrible as it stands now.  There need to be patrols, road blocks, check points, random spawns, how about random invasions where 1-5 robots patrol around the base (not impossible to kill for one person however, this would help bring the people together to communicate and work together, this is not limited to a small invasion at the base)

There are so many little ideas which you can do to make the game more fun for new people, brain storm, and get it done ASAP!!!

Every day you do not make these changes you are losing out on new subscribers ($). 

Fix the dang TP problem and get back to hooking new players!!!  I see the big picture here and that is why I decided to subscribe and not quit however, majority of people will not see it this way...

11 (edited by Arkangel 2012-07-10 13:38:10)

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Arkangel wrote:
KUSTOMROD wrote:

I really think that the nerf to spawns on all the islands that happened ages ago was the point where what the OP is talking about occured.

I remember when I first started you had to learn quick that the NPCs didnt mess around.  I lost quite a few castels in the early days but it was exciting, heart in your throat stuff.  Running out in your new bot to kill or be killed and getting away with 3hp got the heart going and hooked me.

Looking at the alpha 1 islands now its Arkhes every where (NPCs).  You need to go a long way to find a spawn that will give you a run for your money.  Bring back the alpha spawns close to the terminals and the roaming mobs/observers.  First time I meet an observer it supprised the ^$#* outa me, was only a Baph but trying to work out a way to kill them in a light bot gave me hours of fun.

Not sure this has made sence but I have had dealings with a few new players over the last couple of weeks trying to get some of them to stay, but trying to find a spawn close to terminal enough as they need to use plates due to only starting out which means they are going slow so a 10min walk or longer looking for a spawn for just the 3U cargo of a light bot minus the ammo they are carrying I will admit is very dull.

Hope they bring back the good old days...

It sounds like it was more fun prior to the nerf of the Alpha spawns.
I enjoy adventure, danger, exploration, surprises. 

In regards to not joining a corp or playing solo:
People should have a choice in a Sandbox game to go solo (to a certain point) or join a group.  This is not a theme park game.

Seriously, Devs:

I am sure you guys can figure out a way in which you can add MANY more bots in all areas and make things more exciting for new players.  Keep in mind that whatever change you make cannot be limited to the NOOB islands, you must make it to the next tier of islands as well so they do not have culture shock when they progress....

It is pretty simple, if you want to retain an audience they must be entertained.  You need to add more bots to the areas and PLEASE at least give them different visuals for fun factor...  Why not make some big and that look intimidating, how about mini bosses or rare spawns that are not on the edge of the map?   
When I or a new player logs into Perpetuum, I want to be excited, I want to log in with my friends (By the way I am trying to get a few people to play, but they are not at all impressed, which makes me sad) and together set out from the station searching for roaming mini bosses and their guards, or rare spawns and work with each other for a reward...   The placement of mobs is horrible as it stands now.  There need to be patrols, road blocks, check points, random spawns, how about random invasions where 1-5 robots patrol around the base (not impossible to kill for one person however, this would help bring the people together to communicate and work together, this is not limited to a small invasion at the base)

There are so many little ideas which you can do to make the game more fun for new people, brain storm, and get it done ASAP!!!

Every day you do not make these changes you are losing out on new subscribers ($). 

Fix the dang TP problem and get back to hooking new players!!!  I see the big picture here and that is why I decided to subscribe and not quit however, majority of people will not see it this way...


With that being said, I see the vets all talking about TP's and gamma etc...  It is very good that you are concerned about end game content, those are definately items that need to be addressed however, in doing so the DEVS are taking their focus off the CORE problem... Population/fun factor....

Encourage the devs, stop focusing so much on end game content when they cant even get people to pay for the game.

Everyone needs to really communicate stress to the devs that Gamma problems exist however, the problems need to be addressed from the ground up.

The main islands need to be revisited QUICKLY!  I just started playing and the starter areas are terrible, empty,  and very boring! 
Get to fixing this so new people PAY for the game and have fun, then focus more man power on other things.

I understand there are challenges in this game on all levels however, if you do not fix the gameplay/content for beginners and get new subscribers the devs wont have enough money to fix precious Gamma!

GETTUR DUN!

BY the way, can I see a DEV reply to what I am posting, in my opinion this is pretty good recommendations and I would like to be heard, it would be comforting to know that they they really understand the core problem... and this is not something they can sit on and pretend doesnt exist.

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

I just spoke to my friend (Who plays Eve Online and I work with him)...

His experience last night:
1. He logged into Perpetuum
2. Closed the tutorial window thinking the next time he logs in it would pop up again and it did not
3. He got frustrated because he was not sure how to proceed in the game nor could he figure out how to get the tutorial back up
4. He logged out and said he would wait for me to help him
5. He noticed it was very empty where he was started out at


This cannot happen!

Recommendation:
1. Fix the tutorial so it is easy to find, make it more simple and straight forward.
2. Add many more bots to the islands.
3. Take a lesson from Guild wars 2 beta, when you start out your in the middle of a battle!!!
   a.  Add bots all over, tell the new player they need to assist the defending bots by killing attacking bots

Make it fun!

These are off the top of my head, I am sure the devs can come up with something clever, HOOK THOSE NEW PLAYERS!!!

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Isn't there an instruction in topic of help channel how to restart tutorial?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

14 (edited by Arkangel 2012-07-10 14:07:22)

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Line wrote:

Isn't there an instruction in topic of help channel how to restart tutorial?

I cant log in now to look ( at work) however, for him to get frustrated I guess it was not obvious ( and he is a hardcore eve player) imagine the average gamer....

The start of this game needs to treat the new player as if they have never played a game before... they shouldnt have to look for help, it should be shoved into their faces, this would really ensure they stick around.
This game is like eve, complex with a steep learning curve, we need to make it as easy as possible for a new player to adjust.

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Well, I do agree on most points. Perpetuum really needs something to make newbies interested as hell right from the start. Like, when you're logging first time in LA2 just to check wtf is that game everyone talking about and in the next moment you're realising that already several hours passed. It's not about adding elven and paladdins big_smile But the first impression should be exactly the same, and it shouldn't stop close to the end game.

What's for 90% running...whoa I've thought it's 90% mining lol

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Line wrote:

Well, I do agree on most points. Perpetuum really needs something to make newbies interested as hell right from the start. Like, when you're logging first time in LA2 just to check wtf is that game everyone talking about and in the next moment you're realising that already several hours passed. It's not about adding elven and paladdins big_smile But the first impression should be exactly the same, and it shouldn't stop close to the end game.

What's for 90% running...whoa I've thought it's 90% mining lol


Yes I agree totally!  When my friends log in, they look around and think only negative thoughts, where is everyone, what do i do, how do I do it... what is it... looks empty, looks boring, wait this is a pain in the arse, log out...

Again: Devs - stop what your doing, your last release patch (gamma?) did not increase your income or subscription base, get a clue...

Fix the content, you NEED to make it fun for a new player, you want them to pay right?  They need to be entertained... there is no time to waste, there are other games in the world being released and existing which they can play, ask yourself why should they play Perpetuum?

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

I remember a 4th star Cam and 2nd star Devastator spawn not 1500m from ICS Alpha that dropped on occasion t3 loots like a lwf.  I lost alot of bots trying to farm it because it was challenging ... and was quite pleased I could solo it in a yagel (with careful kiting) before my 2 week trial ended.

18 (edited by Rex Amelius 2012-07-16 21:40:35)

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

KUSTOMROD wrote:

I really think that the nerf to spawns on all the islands that happened ages ago was the point where what the OP is talking about occured.

I remember when I first started you had to learn quick that the NPCs didnt mess around.  I lost quite a few castels in the early days but it was exciting, heart in your throat stuff.  Running out in your new bot to kill or be killed and getting away with 3hp got the heart going and hooked me.

Looking at the alpha 1 islands now its Arkhes every where (NPCs).  You need to go a long way to find a spawn that will give you a run for your money.  Bring back the alpha spawns close to the terminals and the roaming mobs/observers.  First time I meet an observer it supprised the ^$#* outa me, was only a Baph but trying to work out a way to kill them in a light bot gave me hours of fun.

Not sure this has made sence but I have had dealings with a few new players over the last couple of weeks trying to get some of them to stay, but trying to find a spawn close to terminal enough as they need to use plates due to only starting out which means they are going slow so a 10min walk or longer looking for a spawn for just the 3U cargo of a light bot minus the ammo they are carrying I will admit is very dull.

Hope they bring back the good old days...

That's damn right! I remember thinking how cool it was that the NPCs could eat me alive if I went the wrong way. NPCs in EVE bored the *** out of me from day one, so I was always impressed with Perp's more dangerous NPCs.

When I first read the idea about making all Alpha spawns fire-only-when-fired-upon I thought it was a fair idea. After reading Kustom's post and remembering my experience and thoughts with NPCs... Hell NO, it's a bad idea.

NPCs should be plentiful AND powerful AND drop good loot. If you MUST limit their aggressiveness do it surgically without the sweeping broad strokes. ALL of Alpha for ALL bot types seems way too harsh. Perhaps do it by region and/or bot type (like indies). But I'll let others with far more PVE experience argue the details...

EDIT: also my first days were in Feb 2011, so that is the timeframe for my 1st impressions on NPCs. When I picked up the game again in Oct and reset my character, I really did not focus much at all on NPCs. Perhaps they already sucked by then.

Sparking to other games

19 (edited by Crepitus 2012-07-18 13:32:17)

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Rex Amelius wrote:

EDIT: also my first days were in Feb 2011, so that is the timeframe for my 1st impressions on NPCs. When I picked up the game again in Oct and reset my character, I really did not focus much at all on NPCs. Perhaps they already sucked by then.

That's when I started.  I lost my first castel very shortly after finishing the tutorial and it took me a while to grind another one back out (buy from market).  I think most people would quit instead of grind out another bot. 

I also ended up re-rolling blue back when you had the option to not royally *** yourself early on.  I've actually had 2 or 3 account resets without penalty and I would have had another one in October of last year had I cared enough to login and use it.  New players don't even get 1.  I think that's another big issue.  If I play for a month and then completely change my mind about what I want to do in game throwing away that month isn't an option; I'd just have walked away with the way it is now.

P.S. I think the "it's a persistent world and your actions should have consequences" line is tired and utterly laughable in light of how the game is developed, the only persistent thing in game is change, massive change. 

They should sell account resets in the store and buy more programmers.  I bet you'd see more people if they could sell their accounts and new players could start with more than a chewed straw and a pat on the head.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Kickstarter on amazon gives you extra Epeen.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Rex Amelius wrote:
KUSTOMROD wrote:

I really think that the nerf to spawns on all the islands that happened ages ago was the point where what the OP is talking about occured.

I remember when I first started you had to learn quick that the NPCs didnt mess around.  I lost quite a few castels in the early days but it was exciting, heart in your throat stuff.  Running out in your new bot to kill or be killed and getting away with 3hp got the heart going and hooked me.

Looking at the alpha 1 islands now its Arkhes every where (NPCs).  You need to go a long way to find a spawn that will give you a run for your money.  Bring back the alpha spawns close to the terminals and the roaming mobs/observers.  First time I meet an observer it supprised the ^$#* outa me, was only a Baph but trying to work out a way to kill them in a light bot gave me hours of fun.

Not sure this has made sence but I have had dealings with a few new players over the last couple of weeks trying to get some of them to stay, but trying to find a spawn close to terminal enough as they need to use plates due to only starting out which means they are going slow so a 10min walk or longer looking for a spawn for just the 3U cargo of a light bot minus the ammo they are carrying I will admit is very dull.

Hope they bring back the good old days...

That's damn right! I remember thinking how cool it was that the NPCs could eat me alive if I went the wrong way. NPCs in EVE bored the *** out of me from day one, so I was always impressed with Perp's more dangerous NPCs.

When I first read the idea about making all Alpha spawns fire-only-when-fired-upon I thought it was a fair idea. After reading Kustom's post and remembering my experience and thoughts with NPCs... Hell NO, it's a bad idea.

NPCs should be plentiful AND powerful AND drop good loot. If you MUST limit their aggressiveness do it surgically without the sweeping broad strokes. ALL of Alpha for ALL bot types seems way too harsh. Perhaps do it by region and/or bot type (like indies). But I'll let others with far more PVE experience argue the details...

EDIT: also my first days were in Feb 2011, so that is the timeframe for my 1st impressions on NPCs. When I picked up the game again in Oct and reset my character, I really did not focus much at all on NPCs. Perhaps they already sucked by then.

I agree as well with you...

In simplest terms, these devs need to put themselves in the new players drivers seat(just create a new character and play the game).  based off the videos for advertising on the website, and the description for this game the new player will have expectations. 
Adventure, Combat, excitement, survival, profit!

The noob area needs to have all these things. 
Currently:
The following will instill boredom:
1. 90% travel for missions
2. all passive bots (very low risk factor)
3. linear boring missions
4. bots drop no good loot to help the player customize the mech
   a.  Currently I have been playing for 3 weeks or so.  Bots do not drop any equipment which might help me be more effective.
  b. They drop plasma so I can make money.
     b1.  Problem: I have money and there is nothing to buy on the market, still no way to get new items.
     b2.  only solution: get things from corp memebers..   This is a great solution for mid to end game items, but not for noobs. 
     b3.  Noobs should have an artifical market of some sort to enable them to customize their mech, play with setups and combinations.   CURRENTLY: there is not a system that is effective at this.
         ii.  Look at eve online: When you start out, yes you have a noob ship however, ALL equipment is available to them, how.. it doesnt matter, the fact is they see the possibilities and are drawn into the game more by seeing what is possible.

You need to engage the new players by making items available so they are drawn in by wanting to customize their mech without having to go through hoops and ladders to get the items. 

You provided a means to make money for a new player, now allow us to use it.
Make the islands more alive, add some color, I suggest revamping the buildings so they do not look like salvage piles, some visual appeal would help a little.

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Somethings with EVE vs Perp... In 2003 when EVE was new. The market was very similar to how it is in Perp. What made EVE's market what it is today was thousands of players selling the junk they got as loot. The beginner school stations had basic T1 stuff... talking civilian shield boosters, shuttles, but what you could get were the blueprints to make your own modules. From the BPOs players got smart and first sold there T1 stuff at there home base which was a starter school. To speed up the process of populating the market, mission offers of 1000s of ammunition or  100s of modules would be rewarded to players. Naturally a player would not need 100 inertia stabilizers so they were sold on the market by the player.
Perp players need to take an active interest in populating the market. Why has it not been done so already... I think the costs involved are a major factor. Its very costly to research a prototype module. Or that a CT gradually decays and gets worse the more used it is, and as a double hit, new players lack the skills to get a good CT from the start. So the CT made requires extra waste materials that a new player has to spend more time harvesting/mining. Furthermore the refining waste increases the cost for a new player to build... This is where veterian players have to step up and build up the market. Meanwhile new players think the game is broken and quit. Thanks for allowing the disguntled veterian players a means to sabotage the game.
But the markets are seeded to an extent... some items show infinate supply, mostly the items needed to aquire construction materials; mining charges, geoscan charges, T1 modules for harvesting/mining, and even basic weaponry for hunting killing basic spawns for the salvage materials needed. So newbies, we have the tools just not the extentions to make those tools useful for us. This is where assignments could pick up the slack and carry the new player. How so? Well, why not reward the player with crafting materials for doing industrial missions. Mine 2500 units of titan ore, why not get rewarded with the perfect refine quantity of titanium from that titan ore? Mine HDT, harvest Helio, gather a few other items and then get the reward for some more crafting materials. Ok we're sent to recover some artifact, and get a decoder rewarded in the process. Now the new player can do a combat mission to get a module to reverse engineer and by doing "gathering assignmets" get the crafting materials to build that module, waste % included. What's to stop a player from doing the same assignment over and over like we can do currently... make the assignment random like the missions are in EVE. EVE mission are not predictable, there is a % of types based upon agent but even for a 100% combat agent, players can't predict if its "worlds collide" next or "downing the slavers" or maybe "angel extravaganza". What will force a player to move is increasing difficulty of assignments. Want a player to progress then force them to build that kinetic armor hardner so they can complete the assignment but providing a challenge. And maybe give us the "*HINT* you may need a kinetic armor hardner" in the assignment details. More to come later about this...

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

ToeL wrote:

Somethings with EVE vs Perp... In 2003 when EVE was new. The market was very similar to how it is in Perp. What made EVE's market what it is today was thousands of players selling the junk they got as loot. The beginner school stations had basic T1 stuff... talking civilian shield boosters, shuttles, but what you could get were the blueprints to make your own modules. From the BPOs players got smart and first sold there T1 stuff at there home base which was a starter school. To speed up the process of populating the market, mission offers of 1000s of ammunition or  100s of modules would be rewarded to players. Naturally a player would not need 100 inertia stabilizers so they were sold on the market by the player.
Perp players need to take an active interest in populating the market. Why has it not been done so already... I think the costs involved are a major factor. Its very costly to research a prototype module. Or that a CT gradually decays and gets worse the more used it is, and as a double hit, new players lack the skills to get a good CT from the start. So the CT made requires extra waste materials that a new player has to spend more time harvesting/mining. Furthermore the refining waste increases the cost for a new player to build... This is where veterian players have to step up and build up the market. Meanwhile new players think the game is broken and quit. Thanks for allowing the disguntled veterian players a means to sabotage the game.
But the markets are seeded to an extent... some items show infinate supply, mostly the items needed to aquire construction materials; mining charges, geoscan charges, T1 modules for harvesting/mining, and even basic weaponry for hunting killing basic spawns for the salvage materials needed. So newbies, we have the tools just not the extentions to make those tools useful for us. This is where assignments could pick up the slack and carry the new player. How so? Well, why not reward the player with crafting materials for doing industrial missions. Mine 2500 units of titan ore, why not get rewarded with the perfect refine quantity of titanium from that titan ore? Mine HDT, harvest Helio, gather a few other items and then get the reward for some more crafting materials. Ok we're sent to recover some artifact, and get a decoder rewarded in the process. Now the new player can do a combat mission to get a module to reverse engineer and by doing "gathering assignmets" get the crafting materials to build that module, waste % included. What's to stop a player from doing the same assignment over and over like we can do currently... make the assignment random like the missions are in EVE. EVE mission are not predictable, there is a % of types based upon agent but even for a 100% combat agent, players can't predict if its "worlds collide" next or "downing the slavers" or maybe "angel extravaganza". What will force a player to move is increasing difficulty of assignments. Want a player to progress then force them to build that kinetic armor hardner so they can complete the assignment but providing a challenge. And maybe give us the "*HINT* you may need a kinetic armor hardner" in the assignment details. More to come later about this...

I really like those thoughts.

The markets just need to be seeded a little. Though, you are really on your mark!  Seasoned players need to seed the market, with everything, but, as long as the costs are not worth it, it will take sacrifice.  this means the devs need to consider adjusting something for the lower end items so the players can seed the market.  So the noobs dont think this is a dead game.

I am a noob to Perp, not gaming... so this should make sense.

Keep the ideas coming!

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Rex Amelius wrote:
KUSTOMROD wrote:

I really think that the nerf to spawns on all the islands that happened ages ago was the point where what the OP is talking about occured.

I remember when I first started you had to learn quick that the NPCs didnt mess around.  I lost quite a few castels in the early days but it was exciting, heart in your throat stuff.  Running out in your new bot to kill or be killed and getting away with 3hp got the heart going and hooked me.

Looking at the alpha 1 islands now its Arkhes every where (NPCs).  You need to go a long way to find a spawn that will give you a run for your money.  Bring back the alpha spawns close to the terminals and the roaming mobs/observers.  First time I meet an observer it supprised the ^$#* outa me, was only a Baph but trying to work out a way to kill them in a light bot gave me hours of fun.

Not sure this has made sence but I have had dealings with a few new players over the last couple of weeks trying to get some of them to stay, but trying to find a spawn close to terminal enough as they need to use plates due to only starting out which means they are going slow so a 10min walk or longer looking for a spawn for just the 3U cargo of a light bot minus the ammo they are carrying I will admit is very dull.

Hope they bring back the good old days...

That's damn right! I remember thinking how cool it was that the NPCs could eat me alive if I went the wrong way. NPCs in EVE bored the *** out of me from day one, so I was always impressed with Perp's more dangerous NPCs.

Wow. It is amazing in how many ways Perp mirrors EvE tongue. Because during my EvE time, many Lvl 4 missions were significantly nerfed. From dangerous and exciting to boring, just as KUSTOMROD said island spawns were nerfed.

Re: New player - with important recommendations -- wishing devs success

Rabiata wrote:

Wow. It is amazing in how many ways Perp mirrors EvE tongue. Because during my EvE time, many Lvl 4 missions were significantly nerfed. From dangerous and exciting to boring, just as KUSTOMROD said island spawns were nerfed.

That's cause whiners are outspoken, people whom are content usually don't post. But changes are based on feedback from "active" player base.

If you like something, make sure you let the devs know.