Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

All these man hours spent to get a gamma island up running is now being destroyed with a blink of an eye. People who planned, and played for so many hours, will now get a big kick in the nuts.  Less than 3 days, then the hammer of the Devs will arrive. One of the things that l came back to this game was gamma islands, where you could build and defend your stuff. Now, almost a month later with many hours a day in this game, it will get instant removed.  I personally dont see much point left to be in this game anymore, which of course the also means the game for me.
The Devs do whatever they see fit, with knee jerk patching, not thinking of what will follow.

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Dev should at least compensate the affected corporations with some quick dev's construction/deconstruction charges from test server.

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

DEV Zoom wrote:
mqx wrote:

This change is ambiguous. 500m is pretty darn close, but at 2k an effective defense is practically impossible, or at least quadruples the tf/defense cost. This should be reevaluated, possibly.

This pretty much sums up the need for the change. We don't want you to defend the teleport, we want you to defend your base.

With the 500m radius it's just too easy to create a chokepoint around the teleports. We had to make a decision to let it go on like this and make things even worse with time, or make the change in hope for a better gameplay.

I think this all will end up with a restriction to build far from your terminal, plus your terminal will have to stand directly in the center of gamma.

ZOoomm lol, players will build a walls and turret batteries around a teleports anyway. Even after you will introduce this change.

I like your intention to see more defense near base of players, but it is IMPOSSIBLE WHILE WE HAVE THIS FREAKING PROBLEM WITH CHOKE POINT TELEPORT SYSTEM!!!!!! People will defend CHOKE POINTS, not the BASE. I told you it, and it happened, and it caused problems as i told.

Just don't do this change. Artillery will make a bit effect, not this silly restriction.

Again, DEVs, for me its obvious now that before you will introduce huge (100500x100500km) continents, you will spend very MUCH time to solve choke point problem. The time what you can put towards continents. Im not your manager, i can be wrong, but its my opinion.

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

DEV Zoom wrote:
mqx wrote:

This change is ambiguous. 500m is pretty darn close, but at 2k an effective defense is practically impossible, or at least quadruples the tf/defense cost. This should be reevaluated, possibly.

This pretty much sums up the need for the change. We don't want you to defend the teleport, we want you to defend your base.

With the 500m radius it's just too easy to create a chokepoint around the teleports. We had to make a decision to let it go on like this and make things even worse with time, or make the change in hope for a better gameplay.

i can understand the need for this. but honestly for me it was totaly sure that we or others would do this...

so we are in a bad situation here atm. and we have to see both sides. ppl have used considrable effort (effort here is a sum of all it takes to this. but basicly it all comes doen to how much time you need... time to get nic time to terraform time to build... ...). and its not only about cir. of cource they have put th emost effort into this so far...

this the change will make all that effort for nothing. of cource you can pack up the structures, but this is the smallest thing in all this. ppl play games because they want to enjoy themselves. if you put that away then ppl will be upset. and of course they have reason to be. these are hundrets of hours where ppl tryed to achieve something and with that its all for nothing. well the change has to come, but just like this is the wrong way.

i think there are several ways to do so. im not going into this totaly because i have not thought the correct way out and havent taken everything into consideration yet, but it has to be something at the line of compensation for all this. like reimbusing all terraforming charges that have been bought... maybe even by factor 1,5 or 2,0. dont has to be nic. can be in form of the charges themselves so ppl can build somewhere else. but they have to get some extra to comensate for their big efforts.
if you want to put the gamma islands to their original form with this change might also be a not too bad idea... with all the terraforming there now pretty useless... or maybe even just ask the alliances if they want that back to the original.

the thing is you have to do something here then its not the fault of the players for this. there will be a lot bad blood if you just do this without any comensation/reimbusement. a lot of ppl will be pissed and it most likely will further diminish the already small comunity if this is done wrong.

i hope this word is heard.

zort

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Remove and reimburse any tf and buildings in 2km radius range. You can't just change it and let those NICs burned for nothing.

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

CIR has a Gamma base so this affects us directly, but what about TOG that sunk ~2 Billion NIC into their terraforming? What about M2S that just finished their terraforming? All the other corps that put their souls and assets on Gamma? Billions of NIC on all sides have been poured by players into your expansion.

You've proven that you're willing to arbitrarily and drastically change the game without any consideration for the effort and assets players invested in this. You are not reliable developers. You are treating your game like it's in Closed Beta.

Why should anyone bother going to Gamma? There's always the risk you'll dream up another idea and put everyone's stuff in jeopardy again in the future. And you want to advertise your game and get more players? This sort of actions are the real reason why there's nobody playing your game in the first place.

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

I think I just had a stroke reading this, well It's been fun.  I have never played a game that punished its players before.

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

They looked for a NIC sink...
<tinfoil hat>

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Implementing this change without consideration, regardless of how badly the developers feel it is needed, can only end poorly for both the players and AC.

What I would propose, is AC take some more time to consider how a change like this can be introduced, without demoralizing the entire server.

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

FYI, we're discussing the method of compensation for the corporations affected by this change.

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

how do you know which corps are affected?

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

My $90 bucks back for my subs?

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Good to hear that, thanks Zoom

Have a productive day, runner!
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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

How do you compensate the last month of everyone's real life you just wasted with 1 change after 1 fight on 1 teleport? roll

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

DEV Zoom wrote:

FYI, we're discussing the method of compensation for the corporations affected by this change.

Here are a couple other things

1) Reimburse the nic lost for the oversight of Gamma terminals not refunding nic spent to repair/produce ext.
2) Reimburse the nic in the difference of cost changed with construction blocks. 267k down to *NEW PRICE* 175k. I know i at least bought 3000 of these on my first day. 276 million in lost nic roughly.

We had a test server to be your ginnie pigs, We posted all of these issue there before it went live.

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Lemon wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

FYI, we're discussing the method of compensation for the corporations affected by this change.

Here are a couple other things

1) Reimburse the nic lost for the oversight of Gamma terminals not refunding nic spent to repair/produce ext.
2) Reimburse the nic in the difference of cost changed with construction blocks. 267k down to *NEW PRICE* 175k. I know i at least bought 3000 of these on my first day. 276 million in lost nic roughly.

We had a test server to be your ginnie pigs, We posted all of these issue there before it went live.

THIS

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

I would like to be reimbursed my $26.** for a 3 month subscription so I can put it towards a game that works. Can we do that?

43 (edited by Rex Amelius 2012-07-02 23:02:09)

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Walls 2.0

I've not played a single minute on Gamma since release, but I suppose I saw this coming MONTHS ago. I don't even need to see a single defensive set-up to know the issue. It should have been totally foreseeable (by the Devs and anyone) that Terraforming would be used, like walls, to manipulate the passable terrain of an ENTIRE island to the full advantage of the owners, not just constructing bases. What more obvious way to do this than by Terraforming around teleport chokepoints?

I know this issue was raised by others and myself long ago but there did not seem to be any concern that Terraforming around Teleports would be issue. So, it seemed that would be perfectly acceptable. I could dig up the posts if I cared, but I really don't anymore.

I guess what may be obvious to some is not obvious to the Devs. I feel for the guys who spent all those man-hours. NIC is measurable and can be re-imbursed somewhat accurately. But the man hours ...GONE!

I'll not be like some ass-hats in the past who have said things like "you should not use mechanics you know the devs will change" because that is ***. I will say I feel for all you guys getting screwed on this... really I feel your pain. But all these stupid skype-accusations against the devs for supporting one group over another is getting absurdly childish. You hard core whiners, blame-gamers and trolls are pushing me away from this game much more than the Devs' misteps. But again, I do get the frustration.

Good luck getting at least your NIC back. And Devs, while at it, me and all my corp/alliance mates will take the NIC for Walls as well.

And ffs ADVERTISE THIS GAME! Get some fresh blood in here before this population eats itself alive with all these bitter veteran rivalries. 

/tinfoil
or maybe that's your strategy, grind the vets out, test it all, reset EP, re-release to the public
/tinfoil

Sparking to other games

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Arga wrote:

But when those changes negate literally 100's of man-hours in resource gathering, construction, factory, NIC farming, and terraforming time; a 'little notice' is the least they could provide.

At least they did it before you spent thousands of man hours in stead of a mere couple hundredbig_smile

But really, this will help open up smaller gangs roaming gamma.  It may not be good for you personally short term but it's good for the game long term, any noob can see that.

Additionally, as I have been on the receiving end of the DEVs god-mode-nerf-batting (personal inventory wipe, rep nerf, wall nerf, troiar Mk2 nerf, etc.) and not being reimbursed in any capacity, I advise that you to stop your whining and suck it up, soldier!  Adapt and move on!

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

I know you say you don't want people to defend the TPs. But you might as well let people do it anyway because they will defend them from 2000m away too.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Arga wrote:

But when those changes negate literally 100's of man-hours in resource gathering, construction, factory, NIC farming, and terraforming time; a 'little notice' is the least they could provide.

At least they did it before you spent thousands of man hours in stead of a mere couple hundredbig_smile

But really, this will help open up smaller gangs roaming gamma.  It may not be good for you personally short term but it's good for the game long term, any noob can see that.



Additionally, as I have been on the receiving end of the DEVs god-mode-nerf-batting (personal inventory wipe, rep nerf, wall nerf, troiar Mk2 nerf, etc.) and not being reimbursed in any capacity, I advise that you to stop your whining and suck it up, soldier!  Adapt and move on!

A single em turret can one shot a lwf mech... please tell  me more about these small gang pvp groups again?

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Gremrod wrote:

I know you say you don't want people to defend the TPs. But you might as well let people do it anyway because they will defend them from 2000m away too.

Yup!!!

It'll take a hellava lot more man hours and NIC, but just you wait. And the tears will fall like Niagra when it all comes down.

So rather than X meters from Teles you may have to go X meters from the shoreline. Even then I'm sure there are ways...

Sparking to other games

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Mongolia Jones
what the hell has a "small roaming gang" to do in a SIEGE enviroment?

did you request from the WoT Devs to open up their game for foot soldiers???

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Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Arga wrote:

But when those changes negate literally 100's of man-hours in resource gathering, construction, factory, NIC farming, and terraforming time; a 'little notice' is the least they could provide.

At least they did it before you spent thousands of man hours in stead of a mere couple hundredbig_smile

But really, this will help open up smaller gangs roaming gamma.  It may not be good for you personally short term but it's good for the game long term, any noob can see that.

Additionally, as I have been on the receiving end of the DEVs god-mode-nerf-batting (personal inventory wipe, rep nerf, wall nerf, troiar Mk2 nerf, etc.) and not being reimbursed in any capacity, I advise that you to stop your whining and suck it up, soldier!  Adapt and move on!

I really don't see the comparision. M2S didn't get screwed by the devs, they got screwed by a player, Styx.

We played exactly in accordance with the rule set, and even to the 'spirit' of the rules (by not putting EM turrets 500m off the TP and 1 shotting people as their protection dropped). We even 'talked' about these things before and during the test server phase.

Its not like I'm even trying to say this changed isn't neccesary, only that it has a significant impact on the time component of players. And as pointed out, not simply the time since the expansion went live, me and many others worked very hard for months prior to the expansion to gather resources (NIC, Ore, ect) to build what we have now.

The devs are reviewing the situation. That's a positive step.

Re: Change to construction around gamma teleports

Our turrets are 1 kilometer from the gate. We didn't put anything 500 meters from the gate.

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