Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Heyterlo wrote:

using nic to buy / sell time codes makes even less sence to me than a cash shop.  hmm   maybe im just too tight with my RL money and nic.

You must not have to much of either then.

52 (edited by Sundial 2012-05-24 20:42:07)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Heyterlo wrote:

using nic to buy / sell time codes makes even less sence to me than a cash shop.  hmm   maybe im just too tight with my RL money and nic.

How does it not make sense? A cash shop effectively cuts out players from the equation (Money goes straight to the devs, NIC is created out of nothing and given to the player) while a Plex system does not. A Plex system requires players to make the NIC to buy the timecode from the person who payed cash for it. This keeps players in the equation. If no one is buying timecodes, you can't make NIC by selling them. The game company does not lose money because they get at least the same number of timecodes being bought as without Plex. The rich player transfers his money to a player who would rather have the convenience of easy NIC or is very poor. Some people can actually sub more accounts with this making the devs MORE money than without.

TLDR:
NIC is redistributed, not created out of thin air. This is good for the market/industrial corps among other things.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Now that I completely understand what you guys are talking about, I dont think that Perp needs it yet. I havent noticed any NIC (Gold farmers) and a plex system is only designed to squash any and (potentially) all gold farmers.

And even in WoW (when I played it) I saw no sense in paying RL money for gold, and it wasnt because I was worried about being hacked, I just didnt take the game seriously enough to invest real money into fake money.

Also what is the next step after starting a plex system? (Id say F2P)  Where would you have the Dev's draw the line? (they are flood gates that cant be closed)  Why? (if the Dev's give in on this there will be others that will cry for the game to be completely F2P)

Oh and glimpse, leave MY FINANCES out of OUR GAME

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Plex is designed to do more than combat RMT actually. That is one of its many benefits.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

55 (edited by Celebro 2012-05-24 22:45:15)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

I'm not in favour for plex, but perp had GTC from the start, therefore the idea of something like PLEX was left open by the DEVs. Now is definitely not the time to introduce it anyways.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

DEV Zoom wrote:

So you're arguing to have two pay2win systems because we already have one, so what the hell?

Also, do not forget that adding plex system to the game would augment the multi-account issue even further.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Burial wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

So you're arguing to have two pay2win systems because we already have one, so what the hell?

Also, do not forget that adding plex system to the game would augment the multi-account issue even further.

Increasing Graphics solves this for some ;P

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

A) Multi-accounting shouldn't be a concern. Taking a stance against it is ignorant, all you're doing is putting yourself in the way of something that is impossible to combat and ultimately just makes you look stupid in trying to do so.. much like the war on drugs...spend your time worrying and policing things that can be controlled...instead... embrace it...

B) Neither should PLEX... if people have to much of either RL money or In-game money and want to have a little more of the other... why not allow them to use some of the sand in the sandbox to do so?

C) Everyone needs to be open to change and not sitting happy with the status-quo...because quite frankly... without constant change and evolution things will/have grown stagnant and things will die out.

59 (edited by Eta Carinea 2012-05-25 14:00:04)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

GLiMPSE wrote:

A) Multi-accounting shouldn't be a concern. Taking a stance against it is ignorant, all you're doing is putting yourself in the way of something that is impossible to combat and ultimately just makes you look stupid in trying to do so.. much like the war on drugs...spend your time worrying and policing things that can be controlled...instead... embrace it...

B) Neither should PLEX... if people have to much of either RL money or In-game money and want to have a little more of the other... why not allow them to use some of the sand in the sandbox to do so?

C) Everyone needs to be open to change and not sitting happy with the status-quo...because quite frankly... without constant change and evolution things will/have grown stagnant and things will die out.

I am guessing you will be up for F2P and MT then, i mean we can't be seen staying still when all the MMO's around us are moving forward with these very buisness models very succesfully too?

If i was to take my natural aversion to these buiness philosophys away i can see the logic in the arguments but if i do that i can also see the logic in the rest of the bad stuff as well such as MT F2P etc.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Eta Carinea wrote:
GLiMPSE wrote:

A) Multi-accounting shouldn't be a concern. Taking a stance against it is ignorant, all you're doing is putting yourself in the way of something that is impossible to combat and ultimately just makes you look stupid in trying to do so.. much like the war on drugs...spend your time worrying and policing things that can be controlled...instead... embrace it...

B) Neither should PLEX... if people have to much of either RL money or In-game money and want to have a little more of the other... why not allow them to use some of the sand in the sandbox to do so?

C) Everyone needs to be open to change and not sitting happy with the status-quo...because quite frankly... without constant change and evolution things will/have grown stagnant and things will die out.

I am guessing you will be up for F2P and MT then, i mean we can't be seen staying still when all the MMO's around us are moving forward with these very buisness models very succesfully too?

If i was to take my natural aversion to these buiness philosophys away i can see the logic in the arguments but if i do that i can also see the logic in the rest of the bad stuff as well such as MT F2P etc.

MT is bad because it bypasses the player element/economy (Plex does not do this once again). F2P unless I am convinced otherwise won't work with an SP/EP time based system.

So while these two things may work for other games they wont work for games like EVE/Perpetuum (CCP learned this the hard way)

As a vet player paying for my accounts with Plex would be a goal for me in a game that has far too few player driven ones. I won't go into another rant about the population. I will just keep working towards my goals in games that still have them.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

61 (edited by Celebro 2012-05-25 15:53:59)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Grinding your way all month  to a free sub is a goal? Not for me though thanks.


And some other player giving you NIC for no ingame reason.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Celebro wrote:

Grinding your way all month  to a free sub is a goal? Not for me though thanks.


And some other player giving you NIC for no ingame reason.

Grinding is one option. There are many ways to make money that arguably dont require much grinding. Maybe less so now that perpetuum doesn't really have a player market.

Its up to the players to figure out how much Plex is actually worth. If they think it should take a month of grinding, then I doubt anyone will be buying Plex.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

its all about the invisible hand guiding the market.


Gotta love the invisible hand! cool

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Plex, here we go again

All this will do is increase the numbers of (Gold / nic) farmers in game, it will not increase numbers of genuine people who play the game for what it is or personal enjoyment.

While playing Eve i knew people that played the game simply thinking that they could one day retire from making enough currency/characters to sell on external market and i have recently watched vids on chinese gold farmers and the estimates of 500 000 of them in various games already.

Fail subject best way to wreck game in my eyes, also love how this barrow is pushed by same people over and over.

Come and buy my NIC > this way cheap cheap lmao

get over it

65 (edited by Celebro 2012-05-26 02:46:49)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

hermit wrote:

Plex, here we go again

All this will do is increase the numbers of (Gold / nic) farmers in game, it will not increase numbers of genuine people who play the game for what it is or personal enjoyment.

While playing Eve i knew people that played the game simply thinking that they could one day retire from making enough currency/characters to sell on external market and i have recently watched vids on chinese gold farmers and the estimates of 500 000 of them in various games already.

Fail subject best way to wreck game in my eyes, also love how this barrow is pushed by same people over and over.

Come and buy my NIC > this way cheap cheap lmao

get over it


+1

Pilot License Extension (PLEX): They want you to think its part of of the game, we all know it's not.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

its all about the invisible hand guiding the market.


Gotta love the invisible hand! cool

Not if Invisible hand grows out of ***. tongue

RIP PERPETUUM

67 (edited by Blackomen 2012-05-26 03:33:03)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

So many things to quote/comment on here since my last post, I think I'll boil it down to one sentence for once.

Only good thing that ever came out of PLEX in eve, was to use them as a inflation proof bank. As they would always rise with inflation, regardless of changes unlike everything else.

Edit: I had to add this on. But I also wish it were possible to limit multiboxing. I can and on rare occasions do run 6 accounts simultaneously. (Could easily handle 12 post-patch.) But I wish it could be limited to no more than two myself. (Two accounts are almost mandatory for most things sadly.) A lot of us multibox just so we can keep up with the other multiboxers.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Blackomen wrote:

Only good thing that ever came out of PLEX in eve, was to use them as a inflation proof bank. As they would always rise with inflation, regardless of changes unlike everything else.

A little oversimplified and easily falsified statement -- there are people that log in and play eve just to keep their sub running when they otherwise would have given up on it.

It's not worth it to everyone but it's worth it to some.

Let me be dramatic also -- the only bad thing about PLEX is some people see it as pay2win.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

My 2 cents, simplified:

Multiboxing ... 100 player corp = 100 paid subs
100 player corp with 2 alts each = 300 paid subs, devs win.

PLEX: Every one sold = $ for devs
PLEX: Every one used = no $ from resub for devs.
Net effect = 0

Why dont people see this?

Some general points ....
- Crosstraining sucks. miners are lousy pvpers, subs are cheap .... why not multibox?
- Yes, buying subs in 6 or 12 month increments is cheaper than one month PLEX increments, but overall not enough to make huge money
- PLEX in EvE is just CCP selling isk, nothing more
- PLEX in EvE did NOTHING to improve the $ for CCP

70 (edited by Calio 2012-05-27 17:19:35)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Brutux wrote:

- PLEX in EvE did NOTHING to improve the $ for CCP

My original post proved this point wrong. They got an extra 2 years worth of subs from me because of my ability to buy subs in EVE with isk. I would NOT have resubbed when I left the first time had I not been able to use my accumulated isk to buy time codes and I wouldn't have gone back to EVE (and resub again) had my account not still been active due to the time codes bought with isk.

I'm at the same point here in Perp.  The difference is that there's no way for me to extend my sub when the current one expires in a couple of months and by then I will definitely no longer be playing Perp, so I will not extend my sub (I don't pay money for things I know I won't use).

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Calio, we have crossed paths in game, I have enjoyed the limited interactions we have had.  I believe you are one of the few who play this game with a single account for a long period of time. I have always found you play with respect to others, if you leave it will be a loss for the game.  That said please read my point carefully.  Although PLEX in EvE helped you stay in the game, it did not bring a great deal of extra $ to the game developers. Thats my point.  I played EvE for a full year with 4 accounts and did not pay one dollar.  At 15 buck per month per account thats $720 in resubs EvE did not get from me. So what if they got it from some idiot who wanted a Titan now ... point is what they got up front from the person who wanted something and paid real life money, they lost from me over time in sub fees because I could generate enough isk to play for free because I could buy the PLEX.

72 (edited by Shaedys 2012-05-27 18:56:43)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

No Brutux, you used PLEX to sub, that means you effectively paid money to the devs. Someone paid for that PLEX with real money, that means they did get real money.
This means that over time, you're still generating a need for people to buy PLEX, they're still getting money for your accounts.
The same amount of people staying subbed, the only possibility is an increase in the amount of money going to the developers PLEX are not used or destroyed.

I will agree with Zoom that you can't see the consequences for this economy and it would probably be a bad idea at this point in time.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Calio wrote:
Brutux wrote:

- PLEX in EvE did NOTHING to improve the $ for CCP

My original post proved this point wrong. They got an extra 2 years worth of subs from me because of my ability to buy subs in EVE with isk. I would NOT have resubbed when I left the first time had I not been able to use my accumulated isk to buy time codes and I wouldn't have gone back to EVE (and resub again) had my account not still been active due to the time codes bought with isk.

I'm at the same point here in Perp.  The difference is that there's no way for me to extend my sub when the current one expires in a couple of months and by then I will definitely no longer be playing Perp, so I will not extend my sub (I don't pay money for things I know I won't use).

If you really want to count that in, then you would have to count the peoples out who left the game because of PLEX too.

74 (edited by Calio 2012-05-28 04:25:29)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Burial wrote:
Calio wrote:
Brutux wrote:

- PLEX in EvE did NOTHING to improve the $ for CCP

My original post proved this point wrong. They got an extra 2 years worth of subs from me because of my ability to buy subs in EVE with isk. I would NOT have resubbed when I left the first time had I not been able to use my accumulated isk to buy time codes and I wouldn't have gone back to EVE (and resub again) had my account not still been active due to the time codes bought with isk.

I'm at the same point here in Perp.  The difference is that there's no way for me to extend my sub when the current one expires in a couple of months and by then I will definitely no longer be playing Perp, so I will not extend my sub (I don't pay money for things I know I won't use).

If you really want to count that in, then you would have to count the peoples out who left the game because of PLEX too.

I would argue that more stayed than left and so a net benefit to CCP. I think it's no accident that EVE has continued to grow all these years (besides the quality of the game itself).  With a time based advancement system, if one wants to take a break it certainly pays to spend some isk (as opposed to letting one's sub lapse) and continue advancing in preparation for one's return. And, the fact that one is advancing even when gone is actually an incentive to come back, if for no ther reason than to check out one's new skills which open the opportunity to do new things.

In any case, this argument is academic. As I said earlier, Zoom is probably right that the game's economy can't handle it at this time and so (for me) there's no point in continuing this conversation.

P.S. Brutux, thanks for the kind words.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Calio wrote:

the game's economy can't handle it at this time and so (for me) there's no point in continuing this conversation.


Thats what i think every time i hear this topic come up.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue