Topic: Stealth Tower: Removal

Title is self explanitory.

Stealth should be something specialized in and a bots sole purpose of investment, it is also a key part in the rock paper scissors balance.

Allowing robots to attain absurdly high masking values by simply standing under a structure is a joke.

If i need to back this with a proper argument i will take the time to write it out in response to any proper arguments for this towers implementation.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

+1

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Tower should be changed to mask other structures around it not the bots around it

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Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

agreed

it should be masking buff tower for eg. Defenseturrets - not for player robots.

And if its masking a hole base - it should be like the stealth genereator from C&C: consuming a *** of energy while active.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

I think it should be for buildings to, or buildings should have a fixed range it would be detected at. So u dont just use a detector bot to scan the whole island in 5 mins

6 (edited by Burial 2012-05-20 23:59:19)

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Annihilator wrote:

agreed

it should be masking buff tower for eg. Defenseturrets - not for player robots.

And if its masking a hole base - it should be like the stealth genereator from C&C: consuming a *** of energy while active.

I like that, gives it more then 1 purpouse.

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

I think the Stealth Towers ARE AWESOME!  Long where the days were riveler MK2s were not allowed to be used on Beta with out proper consent from the over lords.  Soon you will have to be in under 50 M radius in order to see the Riveler MAHAHAHAHA  I can mine FOREVERZ!  You Never Seesmezors!  While I safe log in peace.

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Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

i think they r cool & will add for some nice tactics

-1 @ op

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Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Lemon wrote:

If i need to back this with a proper argument i will take the time to write it out in response to any proper arguments for this towers implementation.

Please post it now. I would like to read it, Mr. Genius wink

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

10 (edited by Lemon 2012-05-21 04:27:24)

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Gremrod wrote:
Lemon wrote:

If i need to back this with a proper argument i will take the time to write it out in response to any proper arguments for this towers implementation.

Please post it now. I would like to read it, Mr. Genius wink

I painted a purdy picture using all my geniusness depicting my argument!

P.S. that was a reference to something fuuu

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Lemon wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Lemon wrote:

If i need to back this with a proper argument i will take the time to write it out in response to any proper arguments for this towers implementation.

Please post it now. I would like to read it, Mr. Genius wink

I painted a purdy picture using all my geniusness depicting my argument!

P.S. that was a refferance to something fuuu

I tried to decipher that image's meaning, but was unable to.

Anyway I rather like the idea personally. I imagine it won't be OP for hiding heavy mining mechs as you would naturally assume that's where miners would be, around this tower. besides it wouldn't actually protect the miners in any way, they would still spot you at the same time, you'd just spot them a little later than usual. I think it's far more likely to be used for ambushes than mining ops.

And really... I'd want several rows of turrets instead of a masker for mining locations anyway. Far better deterrent.

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Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Lemon wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Lemon wrote:

If i need to back this with a proper argument i will take the time to write it out in response to any proper arguments for this towers implementation.

Please post it now. I would like to read it, Mr. Genius wink

I painted a purdy picture using all my geniusness depicting my argument!

P.S. that was a reference to something fuuu

Is...that....a Seth??

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Egil wrote:
Lemon wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

Please post it now. I would like to read it, Mr. Genius wink

I painted a purdy picture using all my geniusness depicting my argument!

P.S. that was a reference to something fuuu

Is...that....a Seth??

Roughly lol and it has nothing to do with a valid argument for or against this but as no-one is able to state why we should have these towers i supposed i can start listing ways to abuse them on top of why it is game breaking.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

the masking tower is the best defense structure atm. no turret can make it up to it. and with the low hp of all the structures i say that this one is an important one...

a big -1

keep it as it is

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

I vote for removal of stealth tower completely.

16 (edited by Gremrod 2012-05-21 17:16:29)

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Lemon wrote:
Egil wrote:
Lemon wrote:

I painted a purdy picture using all my geniusness depicting my argument!

P.S. that was a reference to something fuuu

Is...that....a Seth??

Roughly lol and it has nothing to do with a valid argument for or against this but as no-one is able to state why we should have these towers i supposed i can start listing ways to abuse them on top of why it is game breaking.

What about LOS? Your pic shows perfect LOS, but I doubt you would have it. (This is not a statement to keep them, just throwing it out there.)

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

The following is a guide on how to properly use and leverage the stealth tower well beyond any in-game means to counter it.

Terraform a High point, Place the cloaking tower in a basin to the rear of this high point.
Wait for a enamy.

A enemy with a force of 50 shows up to take your OP.

Fit a ictus with all neut tuners and RE's in the head slot supported by a injector bot w/ RA's.
Fit a couple seths with 900m Range
Fit a couple Vagabonds with 900m Range

Ignore any need for defense in your leg slots, Stack hit dispersion and recharge to have as much up-time as possible.

Now with the current stealth mechanics a robot that is stealth that encounters a enamy who is not will only see the masked bot upon a completed Lock.

What does this mean?

As the attacking force if you attempt to send any shield bot forward realize that you are unable to stop the ictus from neuting 4500 a savlo with out reactor sealing. Further more the e-war under the cloak will be able to freely target your support bots and perma jam them with out fear of enamy e-war intercepting them as they can only be seen by the target they have perma jammed.

Thus the only effective way to attempt to close the distance would be a Terraformed bunker push on the base but your terraformers may be unable to lock any tiles to terraform and should you get close enough im sure a couple mesmers fully tuner fit with gauss guns salvo'ing your fleet from safety a mere 200m away yet you cant see them till under 100m would/could/will keep you away.

Its that there is currently no method to counter the proper use of the stealth tower.

Obviously if no one is home you can kill it but i would say if no one is home they shouldnt be on gamma.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Thanks, your picture wasn't painting that picture for me.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Gremrod wrote:

Thanks, your picture wasn't painting that picture for me.

It had nothing to do with that, it was a very horrible pointless post.

I dont enjoy going in to that level of detail if i can avoid it, because should the change not happen i just told everyone how to perfectly execute the use of that tower.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

The crux again for the slower group is;

If you can't see me, you can't target me.

Although, again, this implies that a corp is able to maintain a fully functional base.

So, if your corp is powerful enough to protect their base, the masker isn't needed. If your not powerful enough, you'll never get a masker deployed.

Meaning the only bases that will have maskers, are ones that don't need them, since they don't need them, but build them anyway, they'll provide an unbalanced amount of defense.

And when groups don't have to worry about defending, they are then able to use more of their man(person)power to go on the offense; making it even less likely for other bases to get or keep a masker online.

Unless of course we get those stealth assaults that were promised, that can maybe sneak into range and target paint something.

21 (edited by doctor drillbit 2012-05-21 21:08:20)

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

then those assaults better not be fitting sneaky spark, cos that drops the effectivness of target markers, weird as it sounds fuuu

t4 marker has -80% masking out of the box, yet with the egos spark it drops to about -76%, wich is 1% moar then a cheaper T3 version without the egos spark

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

the masking tower is the best defense structure atm. no turret can make it up to it. and with the low hp of all the structures i say that this one is an important one...

a big -1

keep it as it is

My German is a little bad so I google translated it.

Translation:  We have 4 people in Remedy, that are self described as Mojo Derpus says, "How's it feel to have unskilled heavy mech pilots chase you off island??"  Unskilled and unable to fend for themselves.  These are examples of as we like to call them "cannon fodder".  The only successful way for cannon fodder to win is by hiding and once Hiding has been engaged.  Theres no way to flush them out.  They are like bugs.

Maybe if you can't defend your outpost on Gamma, maybe you shouldn't own it?

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Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

-1 Keep the tower it the whole gamma thing will be a big flop. You can remove it when the problems arise (if ever, with this amount of players)

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

ot0_m0t0 wrote:

-1 Keep the tower it the whole gamma thing will be a big flop. You can remove it when the problems arise (if ever, with this amount of players)

I really love your use of supporting evidence in this claim. I can tell you really spent a lot of time researching and examining every possible avenue in combating this system to come to that conclusion.


P.S. Your kind of opinions are valued in feature discussion where generalized unsupported ideas can be discussed and general player support in ideas for future implementation is taken in to account for prioritizing development.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Stealth Tower: Removal

Ville wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

the masking tower is the best defense structure atm. no turret can make it up to it. and with the low hp of all the structures i say that this one is an important one...

a big -1

keep it as it is

My German is a little bad so I google translated it.

Translation:  We have 4 people in Remedy, that are self described as Mojo Derpus says, "How's it feel to have unskilled heavy mech pilots chase you off island??"  Unskilled and unable to fend for themselves.  These are examples of as we like to call them "cannon fodder".  The only successful way for cannon fodder to win is by hiding and once Hiding has been engaged.  Theres no way to flush them out.  They are like bugs.

Maybe if you can't defend your outpost on Gamma, maybe you shouldn't own it?

well i havent seen much of eharm but trolling lately.
and who said that remedy will have an outpost on gamma on launch? but im looking forward to the eharm outpost.

some ppl try to see the whole picture and not only their own benefit. but you guys are obvious not one of them...

i guess its too much to expect that ppl keep it factual in the test server forums. but again i guess that too much to expect from eharm.