Topic: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

My time in Perp is coming to an end after almost a year and a half. I don't want to discuss why. There's no point to it. I'll just leave it at the game has become more frustrating than fun.  The point I do want to make is this:

I had an active account in EVE for 5 years starting shortly after launch.  It is also the only game in 14 years of playing MMOs (starting with the Asheron's Call beta 0) that I ever returned to after leaving it to play something else.  Of those 5 years, I actually only played 4 years - I played 3, then took a year break to play another mmo, then played EVE for another year.  The reason I came back instead of moving on again was because I still had an active account and the reason I still had an active account was because the last thing I did before I left the first time was use my accumulated isk to buy time codes (I was leaving so I didn't need the isk any more, so what the hell).

When the game I left EVE for got played out after a year, my EVE account was still active, so instead of moving on to yet another game, I ended up going back to EVE and playing for another year.  In fact having the account stay active while I was gone was an incentive to return, if for no other reason than to try out the new skills that had been added in the time I was gone.

So, instead of getting 3 years worth of cash from my subs, which would have been all had I stopped subbing after 3 years, CCP got 5 years worth of money for my account.  The Perp dev team can use all the subs they can get to keep this game going. A plex system would certainly get them more than they would have otherwise.

Just my $.02

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Interesting.  I never played EVE but I have heard that they have more plex time codes than they have players that can use them and as a result don't have money coming in hence the monocles.

I'm just curious, did you play the test server?

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Crepitus wrote:

Interesting.  I never played EVE but I have heard that they have more plex time codes than they have players that can use them and as a result don't have money coming in hence the monocles.

I'm just curious, did you play the test server?

Someone had to buy the plex, so they got the money. Someone bought the EVE time codes I bought back then (they didn't have plex then, just secure trades toward the end of the 5 years), so someone paid for the codes I used as well as the codes for their own accounts. EVE got 2 accounts worth of subs with 1 person (not me) paying for it.

No. haven't done the test server. Most of the things that have worn me down in this game are not being fixed in this patch and I wonder if they ever will. And, that's my point. If my account were still active down the road (even if I had no interest in playing) I would at least leave the client installed just so I could see how things are going (and perhaps, as with EVE, come back to play). But as things stand I'll uninstall at some point and never look back.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

I might be a really good thing if you would please list what you didn't like, or didn't get fixed.

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Im all for a PLEX system! At the end of the day all accounts have been paid for by someone, and most likely it will attract more players. cool

6 (edited by Calio 2012-05-19 11:43:33)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Merkle wrote:

I might be a really good thing if you would please list what you didn't like, or didn't get fixed.

There's really nothing to be gained by being critical of the game except discourage other players from subbing and I have no desire to harm Perp. I've played MMOs long enough to learn that no matter what I (or anyone) says, there will be at least 2 forum-PvP'ers who say they like it (Hell, I could say the world is round and at least 2 others would say it's flat). In any case, the Devs do what they think is right and I have no interest in trying to get their attention by being the loudest voice on the boards. All that happens then is that the words get lost in the noise.

edit: If the Devs are actually interested in my critical analysis of Perp, they know where to find me (they have my email), but we both know that will never happen.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

I like this guy

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8 (edited by Burial 2012-05-19 16:03:30)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Using the logic, the game would benefit from having f2p game model with cash shop - afterall, you can come back whenever you want and chat with your buddies and so on.

In theory its all fun but it completely breaks the game, how can't people see it?

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Burial wrote:

Using the logic, the game would benefit from having f2p game model with cash shop - afterall, you can come back whenever you want and chat with your buddies and so on.

In theory its all fun but it completely breaks the game, how can't people see it?

Plex is not the same as F2P

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

we got unrestricted 2 week trials with 20k starting EP ... if you want to play the game for free...

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Baal wrote:
Burial wrote:

Using the logic, the game would benefit from having f2p game model with cash shop - afterall, you can come back whenever you want and chat with your buddies and so on.

In theory its all fun but it completely breaks the game, how can't people see it?

Plex is not the same as F2P

I agree its not in the same magnitute, but it breaks the game very similarly.

12 (edited by Calio 2012-05-19 18:21:37)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Burial wrote:
Baal wrote:
Burial wrote:

Using the logic, the game would benefit from having f2p game model with cash shop - afterall, you can come back whenever you want and chat with your buddies and so on.

In theory its all fun but it completely breaks the game, how can't people see it?

Plex is not the same as F2P

I agree its not in the same magnitute, but it breaks the game very similarly.

People with more RL money than time are going to buy in-game currency one way or another. With plex they buy it from the devs (indirectly - it actually comes from players and is not 'created' by the devs to sell) and not some gold farmers.  It benefits the game's devs, cuts down on the gold farmers, and benefits players who have some extra isk/nic/whatever to spend. How can you say it breaks the game when it certainly didn't break EVE in any way, shape or form when it was restricted to just time codes as it was in my time there. I have no idea how it was expanded to be harmful after I left EVE and I'm not saying it should be similarly expanded in Perp.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

I have been saying this for monthes now, there's a 7 page topic on this already.  I 100% agree on adding plex.

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14 (edited by Burial 2012-05-20 10:52:19)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Calio wrote:
Burial wrote:
Baal wrote:

Plex is not the same as F2P

I agree its not in the same magnitute, but it breaks the game very similarly.

People with more RL money than time are going to buy in-game currency one way or another. With plex they buy it from the devs (indirectly - it actually comes from players and is not 'created' by the devs to sell) and not some gold farmers.  It benefits the game's devs, cuts down on the gold farmers, and benefits players who have some extra isk/nic/whatever to spend. How can you say it breaks the game when it certainly didn't break EVE in any way, shape or form when it was restricted to just time codes as it was in my time there. I have no idea how it was expanded to be harmful after I left EVE and I'm not saying it should be similarly expanded in Perp.

Thats exactly the problem. Feeding the possibility to users on a gold plate will mean it will be done massively. People willing to spend more cash on the game will get massive advantages.

INB4 massive pro-cons plex chat. big_smile

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

You can spin it however you want, a plex-type system is simply a pay2win system: you put in real cash, you get lots of ingame cash.

When EVE did this, they already had a stable market and economy. We don't have that, and introducing the system now would probably create massive inflation, turn NIC worthless, and make "plexes" effectively a must-have for everyone.

16 (edited by Celebro 2012-05-20 15:01:41)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

DEV Zoom wrote:

You can spin it however you want, a plex-type system is simply a pay2win system: you put in real cash, you get lots of ingame cash.

When EVE did this, they already had a stable market and economy. We don't have that, and introducing the system now would probably create massive inflation, turn NIC worthless, and make "plexes" effectively a must-have for everyone.

+1 If you like the game pay for the sub guys. Eve did it for one purpose alone, because they had a big RMT issue and wanted to cash in on it. Perpetuum does not have that problem atm, when the time comes there are other ways of dealing with the RMT, one of them is not by giving in to the RMTer's by doing the same thing they actually prohibit a 3rd party from doing.

RIP PERPETUUM

17 (edited by Ville 2012-05-21 00:41:09)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

DEV Zoom wrote:

You can spin it however you want, a plex-type system is simply a pay2win system: you put in real cash, you get lots of ingame cash.

When EVE did this, they already had a stable market and economy. We don't have that, and introducing the system now would probably create massive inflation, turn NIC worthless, and make "plexes" effectively a must-have for everyone.

The more and more I read your comments make me question why I give you my money.

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Glad to see that you get it for what it is, Zoom.

19 (edited by Calio 2012-05-21 12:51:15)

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

DEV Zoom wrote:

You can spin it however you want, a plex-type system is simply a pay2win system: you put in real cash, you get lots of ingame cash.

When EVE did this, they already had a stable market and economy. We don't have that, and introducing the system now would probably create massive inflation, turn NIC worthless, and make "plexes" effectively a must-have for everyone.

While I respectfully disagree with the moralistic basis for your opinion (Pay2win is HAVING to buy something in a cash shop to be competetive; this is something like Payextra2play because the RL money gets nothing that any other play can't also get through an investment of time), I have to confess that the economic basis for your opinion is probably correct. The game population is too low to maintain a liquid market and demand will likely far outpace supply, leading to enormously high prices and disruptions to the game's economy.

Oh well....

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

I understand you are looking it from the point of buying the PLEXes to play(I support the idea of being able to play the game solely with in-game currency), but you also have to look it from the other end. Some guy is getting X amount of NIC by just paying real currency.. that IS pay2win.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

BUT he is not getting an item that could not be obtainable otherwise, he is only getting a lot of NIC. And what can he do with that NIC ? Buy the same items anybody else can, so where is the real advantage ? Because I do not see it.

PLEX would be good because ppl that do not want to pay real money for the sub would mine or farm for hours, meaning they would be logged on to the game actively playing it. This would increase population and players online.

I also do not see inflation and NIC becoming worthless. If the PLEX demand is much higher then supply then PLEX would be extremely high priced, but what does that have to do with other prices like minerals ? Also, with the PLEX system in place NIC is not generated out of thin air, it is just changing hands.

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

Tamas Vitez wrote:

BUT he is not getting an item that could not be obtainable otherwise, he is only getting a lot of NIC. And what can he do with that NIC ? Buy the same items anybody else can, so where is the real advantage ? Because I do not see it.

When someone finds an exploit in the game to get billions of NIC, he isn't getting anything that the others can't either. The advantage is something people tend to forget about, time. You buy the time that you or your corporation would have spent farming otherwise.

Tamas Vitez wrote:

Also, with the PLEX system in place NIC is not generated out of thin air, it is just changing hands.

That's true, NIC is not generated from nowhere, it's flowing into the hands of those who can spend the most real money. With our fragile economy we have already seen monopolies without such a system too, imagine what would happen if we would have it.

Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

DEV Zoom wrote:

imagine what would happen if we would have it.

You make lots of Real Cash, besides what you already make and can buy a better toaster?

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

DEV Zoom wrote:
Tamas Vitez wrote:

BUT he is not getting an item that could not be obtainable otherwise, he is only getting a lot of NIC. And what can he do with that NIC ? Buy the same items anybody else can, so where is the real advantage ? Because I do not see it.

When someone finds an exploit in the game to get billions of NIC, he isn't getting anything that the others can't either. The advantage is something people tend to forget about, time. You buy the time that you or your corporation would have spent farming otherwise.

Emphasis mine, I have to admit I never thought about getting the extra time back via some form of PLEX as a pay2win advantage, but I think you're right about that part Zoom, well argued. 

What I would be worried about from the perspective of Avatar Creations would be the legal implications.  I think someone stealing $83k worth of time codes like in EVE may be prosecutable if real money changed hands, it's a sticky situation legally especially when you're talking about international law, and it's not like AC has a team of lawyers on retainer (or if you do you need to fire them and hire more devs wink).

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Re: Why Perp needs a plex-type system

The problem I found with the PLEX introduced in eve, is that; most eventually realize that it's more logical and less time consuming to do a little extra RL work, instead of grinding for hours. What kind of game accomplishment is that?

This will also motivates some players to bot, trying to keep as many alts as possible subscribed for 'free'.

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