Topic: Kernal Research

With the focus to "make industry more accessible for newer players"   I'm surprised that the kernal system didn't get any love.   The kernal mechanic is likely the largest obstacle for newer players to build non-tier 1 items.

What about a simple tech tree mechanic (similar to many skill-tree mechanics in other games) that allows players some ability to guide where their research points go?   Second - allow players to progress down a research line faster by researching higher tiers of a specific item once they've completed researched the lower tier.  (Without having to research the entire line of T2 items of a specific race.)

For example - If a player wanted to first research up the Medium Missile launcher tree, they could devote all of their kernal "points"  to working on T2 missile launchers, then T3s, then T4s. 

To keep it somewhat difficult - you could countinue to tie the type of kernals to the type of equipment. (I.e. Green Mech kernal "points" are still needed for Med Missile launchers)

Re: Kernal Research

thats PVE... comes after gamma expansion wink

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3 (edited by Sundial 2012-05-09 00:08:46)

Re: Kernal Research

Combine that with the fact that T1 mods drop like candy (they fixed this problem in stEVE recently though I might add Invention made it much easier to get into tiered production than perpetuums research system).

The only market new producers can possibly compete in is probably bots/ammo and T2/T3 (Still a decent grind for a new player) are niche items. All this is amplified by low population; new industrialists simple have no chance to compete in pretty much any market.

EDIT: I don't see the research rate as a problem, I see the drop rate of T1 items from rats as the problem for new industrialists.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Kernal Research

Deathmonkey wrote:

With the focus to "make industry more accessible for newer players"

Its quite a leap from 'accessable industry' to 'tiered production'.

The pros/cons have already been exhaustively argued in a number of other threads. Nothing has changed that would precipitate a need to adjust the research rate.

Re: Kernal Research

Arga wrote:
Deathmonkey wrote:

With the focus to "make industry more accessible for newer players"

Its quite a leap from 'accessable industry' to 'tiered production'.

The pros/cons have already been exhaustively argued in a number of other threads. Nothing has changed that would precipitate a need to adjust the research rate.

Well, they could boost the drop rate of kernels. I don't recall reading about the reversal of the drop rate nerf by 50%.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Kernal Research

Devs made that change a year ago, because they felt the research was too fast. No one has made any valid arguements why it should be faster in that time. Another post about "wanting it to be faster" doesn't make it a priority now.

And no, I didn't finish the tree. And no, our corp hasn't finished the tree.

There's just 1000 less people out there putting kernels into the market and corp prototypers then a year ago. If gamma doesn't bring those players back, changing research isn't going to, and it won't really matter. If they do come back, then problem solved.

7 (edited by Gremrod 2012-05-09 04:06:30)

Re: Kernal Research

Arga wrote:

Devs made that change a year ago, because they felt the research was too fast. No one has made any valid arguements why it should be faster in that time. Another post about "wanting it to be faster" doesn't make it a priority now.

And no, I didn't finish the tree. And no, our corp hasn't finished the tree.

There's just 1000 less people out there putting kernels into the market and corp prototypers then a year ago. If gamma doesn't bring those players back, changing research isn't going to, and it won't really matter. If they do come back, then problem solved.


I was thinking it would be only for a quick fix to help the new players coming into the game. Of course this would help vets that are not done either.

I am not sure if I would want to see it sped up. I would like to see the system have player choice involved a bit more, rather then the random system that is in place now for unlocking research.

But, like you said it is not priority right now.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

8 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2012-05-09 12:11:22)

Re: Kernal Research

think positiv. this is a longterm goal. what will you do once you have reachred it? leave the game as nearly everybody did who has reached it so far? because the lack of goals once you are "done".

when i came to this game over half a year ago, i saw this and i liked it. because this is no profession for a casual gamer who just wants to play 2h a week. this is a long term thing. and whith long i dont mean weeks or months. research is a vast undertaking. and i have no problem that it takes many months or even a few years to get everything together. that is fine from my point of view. then this also provides a fong term goal and for the ppl who want that also a long term motivation. progress may be slow. but thats the way it is.

of cource we can go back to the discussion to a more focused research system where you will be able to focus faster on specific fields and move away from the random part, but we had these kind of discussions already a few times...

9 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-05-09 11:13:17)

Re: Kernal Research

Okay, so a few points:

1) With the coming changes to industry, new players will already be able to compete very well for ammo/t1/bots. Hence the argument that new players 'need' the research to be able to find a market to compete doesn't really hold.

2) The research system is meant to be a long-term goal. And for a corp it's really not that bad. As a solo player it took me around 12 months to get almost full research, and most corps of decent size should be able to do it in 3-4 months with some small level of dedication to it.

3) Allowing you to research the items you want has been suggested before. My only hesitation to this is that compared to the current system this makes research virtual no barrier at all. Getting the 5-10 modules you use the most will go very quick, and the rest is of the items you won't really need that much, so you can just ignore them. Also, you can already do this to some extent from the type and colour of the kernels!

Re: Kernal Research

Bugged npc's means no observers which means *** Kemal research.

Fix is fixing npcs

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Re: Kernal Research

I mean who want T 4 chassis scanners cough cough roll

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Re: Kernal Research

Ville wrote:

I mean who want T 4 chassis scanners cough cough roll

tbh  - i want one...

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Re: Kernal Research

A/B test - B  sad

Re: Kernal Research

Annihilator wrote:
Ville wrote:

I mean who want T 4 chassis scanners cough cough roll

tbh  - i want one...

Don't worry, I have a few for you!

Re: Kernal Research

So does our production team fuuu

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16 (edited by Crepitus 2012-05-10 19:48:51)

Re: Kernal Research

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

think positiv. this is a longterm goal. what will you do once you have reachred it? leave the game as nearly everybody did who has reached it so far? because the lack of goals once you are "done".

This is the single most ignorant thing I've heard anyone say on here in a long time.

NO ONE

I repeat

NO ONE

Has EVER left the game because they FINISHED their research tree and are suddenly bored. 

Plenty of people HAVE LEFT because of the GRIND.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Kernal Research

Crepitus wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

think positiv. this is a longterm goal. what will you do once you have reachred it? leave the game as nearly everybody did who has reached it so far? because the lack of goals once you are "done".

This is the single most ignorant thing I've heard anyone say on here in a long time.

NO ONE

I repeat

NO ONE

Has EVER left the game because they FINISHED their research tree and are suddenly bored. 

Plenty of people HAVE LEFT because of the GRIND.


No one ever leaves for any 1 reason, however Purgatory is a candidate for having left after completing the tree.

Re: Kernal Research

No worries from me then, I'll probably finish my research in 2015 big_smile

I well improved assignment and PVE system will make research less of a grind, though the randomness of it makes it harder to keep at it.

RIP PERPETUUM

19 (edited by Sundial 2012-05-11 01:42:17)

Re: Kernal Research

Without the grind they would leave sooner because there is nothing to do / nothing more to get after a certain point. Is 50 people enough to sell your shiny T4 stuff to? Are there different markets to compete in?

Gamma will help somewhat in that regard, however the plethora of game breaking issues caused by low population will only be fixed if future content brings a plethora of new players.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.