1 (edited by Celebro 2012-04-27 07:17:51)

Topic: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Maybe the topic thread may sound that's it's too safe, well it is very safe. I was surprised to hear on GC recently that in stEVE High sec areas are getting ganked more often and non-pvp players might be getting tired of it.


This could be a great opportunity to lure the advantages we have in this game, if only most knew perp exists, I'm not too sure. Getting a second wave of eve players would be great though.

Time for NEX 2.0? tongue

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

NEX 2.0 means we fire Daz... & we r set!


WTB: new, better & sexier CEO.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

I ran 9 accounts in stEVE,  was a Tech2 manufacturer in High Sec, Large Caldari PS and all that crap. 
When all the rage started about ganking Bot miners, My mining operations were also targeted constantly despite not being bots.
That and constant War Decs from griefers.

I got very tired of it, High Sec ganking and High Sec War decs, is the reason I left. I have no problems with PvP, but it has its place, and that is not Everywhere.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

MonocleWinski wrote:

I ran 9 accounts in stEVE,  was a Tech2 manufacturer in High Sec, Large Caldari PS and all that crap. 
When all the rage started about ganking Bot miners, My mining operations were also targeted constantly despite not being bots.
That and constant War Decs from griefers.

I got very tired of it, High Sec ganking and High Sec War decs, is the reason I left. I have no problems with PvP, but it has its place, and that is not Everywhere.

welcome to alpha islands... the land of padded walls, high fences & your own personal police officer tongue

1 of many up sides to this game. If you dont want to pvp u dont have to on alpha. just enjoy mining, building, missions, NPC farming, artifacting ect... and im sure in the future the davs have many other cool things planned for alpha as well. big_smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

More New Eden exiles.. great. big_smile

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Celebro wrote:

Maybe the topic thread may sound that's it's too safe, well it is very safe. I was surprised to hear on GC recently that in stEVE High sec areas are getting ganked more often and non-pvp players might be getting tired of it.


This could be a great opportunity to lure the advantages we have in this game, if only most knew perp exists, I'm not too sure. Getting a second wave of eve players would be great though.

Time for NEX 2.0? tongue

I think it is time and you have a very good idea with this being a very good lure for some to leave stEVE.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Gremrod wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Maybe the topic thread may sound that's it's too safe, well it is very safe. I was surprised to hear on GC recently that in stEVE High sec areas are getting ganked more often and non-pvp players might be getting tired of it.


This could be a great opportunity to lure the advantages we have in this game, if only most knew perp exists, I'm not too sure. Getting a second wave of eve players would be great though.

Time for NEX 2.0? tongue

I think it is time and you have a very good idea with this being a very good lure for some to leave stEVE.

Cheers Grem, thinking of logging in, when test server is up wink

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Celebro wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Maybe the topic thread may sound that's it's too safe, well it is very safe. I was surprised to hear on GC recently that in stEVE High sec areas are getting ganked more often and non-pvp players might be getting tired of it.


This could be a great opportunity to lure the advantages we have in this game, if only most knew perp exists, I'm not too sure. Getting a second wave of eve players would be great though.

Time for NEX 2.0? tongue

I think it is time and you have a very good idea with this being a very good lure for some to leave stEVE.

Cheers Grem, thinking of logging in, when test server is up wink

I log in from time to time. Yeah waiting for the test server. I will be there.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

You gain safety but lose stuff you can do in a small amount of time.

You would only really gain "hardcore carebears" this way as the casuals (by far the most abundant) wouldn't stay.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04 … s-economy/

Depending on how long this lasts, some high-sec players might get seriously angry. A few days is for a good laugh perhaps, but if they manage to keep this blockade for 1-2 weeks it might get quite damaging for a part of the eve community.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Wow, that is quite a read lol, and it appears the Eve Devs are Enjoying it.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

MonocleWinski wrote:

Wow, that is quite a read lol, and it appears the Eve Devs are Enjoying it.

The amount of publicity stuff like this in their game gets them is nothing short of massive. For every person that quits because of this there is a fresh influx of new players. Perpetuum badly needs something like this.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

13 (edited by Gremrod 2012-04-29 03:22:07)

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Sundial wrote:
MonocleWinski wrote:

Wow, that is quite a read lol, and it appears the Eve Devs are Enjoying it.

The amount of publicity stuff like this in their game gets them is nothing short of massive. For every person that quits because of this there is a fresh influx of new players. Perpetuum badly needs something like this.

You can't do anything like this in Perpetuuum, since you don't have a choice to break the law in Perpetuum. And it is this type of stuff that gets new people or really makes for some good publicity!

Hmm, I wonder what we can do that would be close....

But yeah saw DaOpa doing a live feed from Jita and tons of non-eve gamers asking questions in the feed chat. It really had them all excited about the game.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Sundial wrote:
MonocleWinski wrote:

Wow, that is quite a read lol, and it appears the Eve Devs are Enjoying it.

The amount of publicity stuff like this in their game gets them is nothing short of massive. For every person that quits because of this there is a fresh influx of new players. Perpetuum badly needs something like this.

Some got close! but the devs tend to squash most things that can be loop holed quite quickly before they can amassed.

A) Styx - Dupping for a M2S vs Server war (should it have been legit, and that bountyfull this could have turned in to a large event)
B) Active-Tanking Artemis/+ ERP= was beat several times with the nerf bat before rolled out on a large scale.

  • The removal of any logical active tanking

C) Removal of the 5 Second dead mans timer upon teleporting to beta and being met with a over fit heavy.

Assuming sufficient population- C) could be able to blockade routes on beta.

Of course one could go as far to say A) was a thought out plan of retaliation over insurance fraud moderation.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

they should remove insurance imo lol

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Lemon: A was an exploit, there was not much to discuss there and it's not the type of thing the DEV's can be 'okay' with. B was a balance issue, really don't see how you can compare that to this type of news.

Anyhow, I do agree that publicity of this sort can help a lot in spreading the word about a game. Why hasn't Perpetuum had it? I'd say that's due to extremely low population and quite limited sandbox even on beta. However, the Gamma patch has the potential to change both of these, so for the drama queens out there, hope for the future!

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Interesting how this thread has morphed from "attract new people whose emphasis is not PvP" to "why can't we have more goon-like behaviour".

If-- and I say "if" EVE Devs really find the Jita thing amusing, then it is to be hoped it's for the free publicity.  The only kind of people that would attract are those that think it's easy to grief in the game, and they might not stay, because it can cost you a lot of isk, until you know what you are doing.

I watched the Da Opa livecam for a while and it was incredibly boring: they were simply scanning for decent suicide gank targets and letting the rest go.  This is new?

If the Devs really like it for the silly activity it is, then they are falling back into "drunken frat-boy" mode and they will end up killing their game, unless they can make enough money from Dust514 and the Chinese and Japanese 2nd and 3rd sandbox franchises.  Stated CCP policy is to get away from stupid mode, after the Fanfest Mittani scandal, but whether they can hold that thought for a few months consecutively remains to be seen.

I realise that many are holding up EVE as a symbol of sandbox success, but look at the numbers: it is still very much a niche game.

Perpetuum, with the possibility to appeal to casual gamers, PvE-centred gamers AND PvP-centred gamers, could easily end up with 10 times EVE's actual live player subscriber population, if it got publicised well enough.

Now, whether the hardware could handle that many is another question. wink

Anyway, +1 to the OP.  Wouldn't it be great if, by the time of PBS, there was also a huge influx of all sorts of new players.  I am one of those that enjoys PvP, but would think it a great waste to only do PvP in a sandbox game that gives you 20 different sorts of activities to do.

And there are also a lot of non-PvPers that enjoy watching PvP and hearing about it, if they are not forced into it.  Bottom line, which EVE still does not completely understand, is that you cannot make people play the game in a way that they do not want to-- they just leave.  Now, if your player base is so large that you can afford to alienate, say, 30% of them and you are sure you'll get replacements (e.g. WoW), then fine.  Otherwise, it is wise not to offend your customers too much.

If Perp can truly foster enjoyable play for all types of legitimate players (I exclude pure griefers), then it has the potential to become massively popular.

18 (edited by Sundial 2012-04-29 20:50:00)

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

The problem is Nemo is EVE in its current form is far more friendly game to casuals. The only people EVE is not friendly too are people who do incredibly stupid things. You can login to EVE and do stuff for 30 minutes. Name one thing you can do for 30 minutes in Perpetuum that is worth your time... Name any high end PvE content on alpha (I guess besides beacons which are not solo friendly and are costly)... There is none.

I would disagree also that stuff like this only attracts griefers; that is a rather simple minded statement. I had 2 friends hear about this (neither are the griefer type) and they both got trials to EVE. Yes EVE is a niche game, but it actually has a healthy population due to all the media hype it gets for stuff exactly like this. Their drunken "frat boy mode" is simply allowing players to use the sandbox to create content. The devs don't stand on any moral ground giving players the opportunity to make the choices with repercussions. That is the single most important thing EVE has. People look at EVE and say "Holy crap people can do that? People can actually have an affect on the gameworld?"

Sure this might make alot of people butthurt that they are assaulting Jita but at the end of the day this is sandbox content at its finest. If this attitude would have killed EVE it would have a long time ago... Yet every single year it increases in population (with the exception of Incarna expansion). I would argue if anything CCP interfering would kill the game.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Nemo wrote:

I am one of those that enjoys PvP, but would think it a great waste to only do PvP in a sandbox game that gives you 20 different sorts of activities to do.

1. PvP
2. PvE missions
3. PvE farming
4. Mining/Harvesting
5. Manufacturing
6. Hauling (not really viable until we get seperate class of hauling bots and or compression mods)
7. Trading (not really viable until we get remote buy/sell extensions)
8. Artefacting
9. err...

I realise that by "20 differnet sorts of activity" you were speaking figuratively and I not trying to be churlish but I just wondered how many different activities there actually are in Perp. PvP should probably be split too since tackle/DPS are different and roam/defence are different but even so, there aren't many.

I'd love to see 6 and 7 become viable professions for starters.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Sundial wrote:

The problem is Nemo is EVE in its current form is far more friendly game to casuals. The only people EVE is not friendly too are people who do incredibly stupid things. You can login to EVE and do stuff for 30 minutes. Name one thing you can do for 30 minutes in Perpetuum that is worth your time... Name any high end PvE content on alpha (I guess besides beacons which are not solo friendly and are costly)... There is none.

Well. smile  I was not actually using the thread to compare Perpetuum at its present state with EVE at its present state.  I play both.  From what I can see, once Perpetuum has had half the number of years and expansions as EVE, it should have just as many things to do.  And PvE is next up after Industry2, as I recall.

Sundial wrote:

I would disagree also that stuff like this only attracts griefers; that is a rather simple minded statement.

Only if you listen to it with simple ears. wink  Best to address the issue, I'd think.  Certainly all sorts of activities can attract people to make a trial.  Whether they are retained is another thing.  How many of them could actually do that sort of griefing viably?  People will do a drive-by of a game for any number of reasons.  I was looking at it from the point of view of attracting players that were interested in significant play and interested in staying in the game.

Sundial wrote:

Their drunken "frat boy mode" is simply allowing players to use the sandbox to create content. The devs don't stand on any moral ground giving players the opportunity to make the choices with repercussions. That is the single most important thing EVE has. People look at EVE and say "Holy crap people can do that? People can actually have an affect on the gameworld?"

Some "content" is not worth creating. smile  "No moral ground" is actually a simple convenience for the designers; it eliminates a lot of work.  Also not quite true; they do have a bar below which they will not let the game sink, but admittedly, it is very low.  There are many, many ways to affect the EVE game world-- and there will be in Perpetuum as well-- that do not have to be churlish, short-sighted, griefing or exploitative.

Sundial wrote:

Sure this might make alot of people butthurt that they are assaulting Jita

In my opinion, they are not "assaulting Jita".  They are simply suicide ganking a fraction of the shipping there.  "Burn Jita" was hyperbole and self-gratification, overblown at a minimum.  The only valid part of it is if they have aligned it towards economic manipulation that could benefit their alliance and holdings.  They ave done that by far subtler and better methods in the past, in my opinion.

Sundial wrote:

but at the end of the day this is sandbox content at its finest.

It's "finest"--seriously?  heh, we'll just have to agree to have differing opinions on that one...

Sundial wrote:

If this attitude would have killed EVE it would have a long time ago... Yet every single year it increases in population (with the exception of Incarna expansion). I would argue if anything CCP interfering would kill the game.

Here we agree.  As far as I am concerned, it did kill EVE, or at least what EVE could have grown into.  If you read or listened to any of their "manifesto" statements, they wanted to have the game allow you to do "anything you could read in a science fiction story".  All I can say is that their reading list must be rather limited.  wink

And check out their population increase as a proportional fraction of the total population playing MMOs, which have become more and more popular as an entertainment pastime over the last decade.

Considering the size of most games nowadays, the truly benchmarking, large games, EVE is little more than a niche game.  They may survive based upon franchising to Japan and China (thank goodness they abandoned the "one universe" there, for localisation reasons if not for anything else), or if they can retain Dust514 players.  As well, there is always a turnover in such games.

As for Perpetuum, I sincerely hope it can avoid making some of the same mistakes that EVE has over the years.  smile

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Nemo wrote:

I am one of those that enjoys PvP, but would think it a great waste to only do PvP in a sandbox game that gives you 20 different sorts of activities to do.

1. PvP
2. PvE missions
3. PvE farming
4. Mining/Harvesting
5. Manufacturing
6. Hauling (not really viable until we get seperate class of hauling bots and or compression mods)
7. Trading (not really viable until we get remote buy/sell extensions)
8. Artefacting
9. err...

I realise that by "20 differnet sorts of activity" you were speaking figuratively and I not trying to be churlish but I just wondered how many different activities there actually are in Perp. PvP should probably be split too since tackle/DPS are different and roam/defence are different but even so, there aren't many.

I'd love to see 6 and 7 become viable professions for starters.

I'd agree that Perpetuum is far more limited at present than some of the games that have been established for years.  However, with PBS followed by Industry2 followed by a revisiting of PvE, I am hoping that the diversity will increase as well.

One could state that other games have the same braod categories of activities.  The diversity comes from splitting, say, "PvE farming" or "Artefact Scanning" into a bunch of different types or giving them new sources.  The Missions are clearly in need of an overhaul, but that is coming, based upon Dev comments.

Definitely agree that the menu is mor elimited now.

But getting back to the point of the OP, "It's safe on Alpha", I  do believe that this will be a selling point for new folks.

Once they are in and especially once they are committed to a game that let's them play the way they want, they may decide to stick with Alpha, or like I did to go Beta/Gamma.  They may decide to stick to building and creative lines, or go into PvP and empire building, etc.

This is much closer to being able to "play how you wish", in my opinion.  And a larger player base will inevitably benefit all of the regions, Alpha, Beta and Gamma.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

The devs not taking a moral ground is not a cop out. Trammel was the cop out simply saying there simply can be no outlaws in a certain area. There are consequences for griefing in EVE. There are also easy ways to avoid being griefed (Not being completely *** for a start). At the end of the day if you have half a brain, you will not get griefed in EVE unless you let yourself be.

Anyways, you sound like you want it to be like every other game out there (safe). I think its a good thing it is different the MMO market is horribly stagnant with games with cop outs like Trammel.

As for content not worth being created, that content is what made EVE a reality. Just because you personally despise some styles of game play doesn't mean it cannot be beneficial to a game if implemented correctly.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Sundial wrote:

The devs not taking a moral ground is not a cop out. Trammel was the cop out simply saying there simply can be no outlaws in a certain area. There are consequences for griefing in EVE. There are also easy ways to avoid being griefed (Not being completely *** for a start). At the end of the day if you have half a brain, you will not get griefed in EVE unless you let yourself be.

Anyways, you sound like you want it to be like every other game out there (safe). I think its a good thing it is different the MMO market is horribly stagnant with games with cop outs like Trammel.

As for content not worth being created, that content is what made EVE a reality. Just because you personally despise some styles of game play doesn't mean it cannot be beneficial to a game if implemented correctly.

I never have been griefed, just to establish my starting premises (though I did get lag-ganked once, but that's the internet, not the game).  I have played in high sec, hunted and missioned in low sec, and lived in 0.0 and wormholes.

But it is very easy to grief in EVE, and it is especially easy to grief newer players that do not know all of the highly-obfuscated game mechanics.  The consequences for griefing are of very low value compared to its potential gain, or it would not be a viable source of income.  As a different poster remarked in a different, current thread, a reasonably "realistic" response to a very few repeated grief/gank attacks in high sec would be to make it impossible to raise one's standings enough to re-enter without being sought by Concorde.  But griefers do not wish that "everyone can play their own way"; they wish people to be forced to play their (the griefers') way.

Regarding "no moral ground" being a design "cop-out" (your words, not mine), I am speaking from the point of view of dollars and resources invested.  If your players cook up drama for you, that's less that you have to invest in the game.  So yes, it is very convenient and a big money- and time-saver.  I used the word "convenience", not "cop-out".  The two mean rather different things.

However, your inflammatory turns of phrase seem to signal that this has ceased being a discussion, and I have no inclination to respond further to emotional cant.  Your are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as is everyone else here.

So I will just return us once more to the OP and agree that  the Alpha islands are currenly a selling point, and will be moreso when PvE experiences are revisited, fixed and/or expanded.

24 (edited by Bad Robot 2012-04-29 23:39:57)

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Yeah I think my whole post about this and not being able to become an outlaw or needing more player choice could be a bit premature before seeing what changes with PBS update.

Oh wrong char.

<- Gremrod

25 (edited by Ville 2012-04-30 14:28:47)

Re: It's safe in alpha Islands!!

Griefing New players(day to week old accounts) helps, noone.

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