51 (edited by Cobalt 2012-04-05 16:34:38)

Re: Idea for Improving population

Mining liquizit needs many different operations, that are WAY more complex than just buying plex. Your example is pay to play to earn NIC, not pay to earn NIC

Show me how you mine liquizit with ten account, without macroing and almost unattended. Impossible imo

Double edit sorry.


Anyway, even with 10 afk sequers with one T4 miner mod:  you are talking about INGAME NIC creation. You will have to seel your tremendous amount of ore to get rich no?  You will have to find the ore spot, change each time its empty, geoscan each time with next mining patch....

Guys be honest with yourself. With 10 accounts, you can get rich, but with actually INTERACTING with the game. RMT can make you rich even without interacting. Its the death of a sandbox

52 (edited by Sundial 2012-04-05 16:34:00)

Re: Idea for Improving population

Cobalt wrote:

Mining liquizit needs many different operations, that are WAY more complex than just buying plex. Your example is pay to play to earn NIC, not pay to earn NIC

Show me how you mine liquizit with ten account, without macroing and almost unattended. Impossible imo

Isboxer or a specialized switching device built for duplicating inputs across multiple computers.

Liquizit mines extremely slow anyway, you could empty your cargo manually without any 3rd part stuff.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Idea for Improving population

This is a topic that can go on forever since there will always be people on both sides of the fence. Those who are for it and those who are against it.

Both sides have pros and cons.

Most companies put it in to combat the third-party RMT companies.

I don't think Perp has a problem with third-party RMT at the moment nor the pop to support a plex system that would make since for the DEVs to spend time on it at this point.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

54 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-04-05 16:43:31)

Re: Idea for Improving population

Gremrod wrote:

... nor the pop to support a plex system that would make since for the DEVs to spend time on it at this point.

Not sure what you mean there, most likely a Plex system would encourage a lot more players to come, and I think it would also greatly improve the retention rate. Given the low population we have, this actually seems like just the type of thing we need.

Really, what it comes down to for me is that the population at the moment is extremely low. The DEVs need to take strong measures to increase the population if this game is going to survive much longer. More than churning out great content (which I think they are doing), we in short need the following measures (preferably together with the new update/expansion launch for increased effect):

  1. Plex-system

  2. Invite-a-friend scheme (if friend subscribes for X time you get Y time)

  3. Ad-campaign

Re: Idea for Improving population

Lucius Marcellus wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

... nor the pop to support a plex system that would make since for the DEVs to spend time on it at this point.

Not sure what you mean there, most likely a Plex system would encourage a lot more players to come, and I think it would also greatly improve the retention rate. Given the lot population we have, this actually seems like just the type of thing we need.

Really, what it comes down to for me is that the population at the moment is extremely low. The DEVs need to take strong measures to increase the population if this game is going to survive much longer.

If it would help or cause the population to grow is still something we are not sure about. We can't say it would help or cause it to grow with any guarantee.

What comes first, the plex or the population?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

56 (edited by Gremrod 2012-04-05 16:50:01)

Re: Idea for Improving population

The order I would put them in is as follows.


  1. Ad-campaign

  2. Invite-a-friend scheme (if friend subscribes for X time you get Y time)

  3. Plex-system

We need a population first before the plex system is workable. Just how I see it.

Not shooting down your ideas. Glad people are thinking about this stuff.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Idea for Improving population

Gremrod wrote:

The order I would put them in is as follows.


  1. Ad-campaign

  2. Invite-a-friend scheme (if friend subscribes for X time you get Y time)

  3. Plex-system

We need a population first before the plex system is workable. Just how I see it.

Not shooting down your ideas. Glad people are thinking about this stuff.

Well, I'm not really trying to say Plex is the only, or even most important one of them. I agree with you basically, I just think we should do all of them!

A Plex system can't be that complicated to make though, just make a subforum to discuss buy/sells, then make an option to send code-offers (code authenticated first).

Re: Idea for Improving population

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

A Plex system can't be that complicated to make though, just make a subforum to discuss buy/sells, then make an option to send code-offers (code authenticated first).


This and let the players decide to use it or not.

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Re: Idea for Improving population

Lucius Marcellus wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

The order I would put them in is as follows.


  1. Ad-campaign

  2. Invite-a-friend scheme (if friend subscribes for X time you get Y time)

  3. Plex-system

We need a population first before the plex system is workable. Just how I see it.

Not shooting down your ideas. Glad people are thinking about this stuff.

Well, I'm not really trying to say Plex is the only, or even most important one of them. I agree with you basically, I just think we should do all of them!

A Plex system can't be that complicated to make though, just make a subforum to discuss buy/sells, then make an option to send code-offers (code authenticated first).


Yeah simple solution first, you're right I am sure this would not take very much time for them to set up.

smile

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Idea for Improving population

For Plex to work someone will need the NIC enough to pay RL money. Who wants to buy NIC right now?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Idea for Improving population

So true.

Re: Idea for Improving population

Celebro wrote:

For Plex to work someone will need the NIC enough to pay RL money. Who wants to buy NIC right now?

hi.

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63 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-04-05 18:16:10)

Re: Idea for Improving population

Celebro wrote:

For Plex to work someone will need the NIC enough to pay RL money. Who wants to buy NIC right now?

People who like to PvP, but hate grinding?

The point is really that "worst-case" very few people willing to sell these Plexes, but so what? That just means the price for them will be higher, and I'm sure there's still some people willing to do it.

This will also help fuel the market as NIC will have more of a purpose.

64 (edited by Jita 2012-04-07 14:35:52)

Re: Idea for Improving population

even if you bought the plex to get nic what the hell would you buy with it? You would need to be selling them at 250m to be remotely worth it and you can buy half the market for that.

If your going to do it put an NPC buy order up (NOT sell order) at 300 million. That will make people flush with cash and the market will respond by putting stuff up for sale.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Idea for Improving population

Jita wrote:

even if you bought the plex to get nic what the hell would you buy with it? You would need to be selling them at 250m to be remotely worth it and you can buy half the market for that.

If your going to do it put an NPC buy order up (NOT sell order) at 300 million. That will make people flush with cash and the market will respond by putting stuff up for sale.

Generating even more NIC, making NIC even more useless?

Re: Idea for Improving population

Jasdemi wrote:
Jita wrote:

even if you bought the plex to get nic what the hell would you buy with it? You would need to be selling them at 250m to be remotely worth it and you can buy half the market for that.

If your going to do it put an NPC buy order up (NOT sell order) at 300 million. That will make people flush with cash and the market will respond by putting stuff up for sale.

Generating even more NIC, making NIC even more useless?

Making people with NIC set up buy orders above that therefore moving nic at a reasonable level from the end game to the new game, and further making the end game want to claw some of that back through market sales.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Idea for Improving population

and you think that would save the game population?

For me it sounds:
1. pay to get your main account that you want to play
2. pay to get your second account that you need to haul
3. pay to get your initial NIC boost so you can afford anything from the overpriced but still broken market

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Idea for Improving population

Thats not how the economics would work. More liquid nic for people who buy things would increase the value of goods and therefore raw materials. Its inflationary and would therefore do nothing to the economy long term but reduce the value of liquid nic held now.

If it costs 20 million for a mech do you think that mineral prices would remain constant?

In addition what it would do is set a value on work. High end players would compete for plex's setting a value for them on the market that would be roughly equivelent to the level of work needed to gain that nic.

Its really important for a game to have this - right now there is nothing setting the standard and as corps accumulate goods faster than they are destroyed the market deflates and therefore devalues the raw materials making it harder for new people to compete.

The only thing that would become hilariously undervalued is missions rewards.

Its pure 1984 Orwellian economics at the moment. The main driver behind prices and market action is a surplus of production compared with use.The trick then is to provide a method of redistributing this surplus to the lower end of the market. This will be achieved by plex's as the high end players rather than working to buy plex's will to a certain extent just use the reserves they have that will be worth more as time goes on. Only once these reserves start to dwindle will the balance of work return to the higher end players. I'm talking of course as a populace, some corps will continue to overproduce.

The only thing a plex would change is the attrition of high end corps and players. It provides them with the ability to play for free and more than that provides industry with a reason to exist outside of pvp. Market pvp becomes a part of the game again.

Another point to note is people talk about the moving of nic around and that nothing is lost of gained. Contrary to this in fact it will be impacted by the attrition rates of new players and old players. Will the nic left on the accounts of new players who have left be greater or less than the nic on the old players who leave.

Re: Idea for Improving population

BankOfEngland wrote:

Thats not how the economics would work. More liquid nic for people who buy things would increase the value of goods and therefore raw materials. Its inflationary and would therefore do nothing to the economy long term but reduce the value of liquid nic held now.

If it costs 20 million for a mech do you think that mineral prices would remain constant?

In addition what it would do is set a value on work. High end players would compete for plex's setting a value for them on the market that would be roughly equivelent to the level of work needed to gain that nic.

Its really important for a game to have this - right now there is nothing setting the standard and as corps accumulate goods faster than they are destroyed the market deflates and therefore devalues the raw materials making it harder for new people to compete.

The only thing that would become hilariously undervalued is missions rewards.

Its pure 1984 Orwellian economics at the moment. The main driver behind prices and market action is a surplus of production compared with use.The trick then is to provide a method of redistributing this surplus to the lower end of the market. This will be achieved by plex's as the high end players rather than working to buy plex's will to a certain extent just use the reserves they have that will be worth more as time goes on. Only once these reserves start to dwindle will the balance of work return to the higher end players. I'm talking of course as a populace, some corps will continue to overproduce.

The only thing a plex would change is the attrition of high end corps and players. It provides them with the ability to play for free and more than that provides industry with a reason to exist outside of pvp. Market pvp becomes a part of the game again.

Another point to note is people talk about the moving of nic around and that nothing is lost of gained. Contrary to this in fact it will be impacted by the attrition rates of new players and old players. Will the nic left on the accounts of new players who have left be greater or less than the nic on the old players who leave.


This is exactly what it would do.  Ok so you don't want to invest time setting up a plex system, let players themselves go into "Sell | Trade | Buy" mode, with Gamma coming out in the near future it gives us a nic sink.

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Re: Idea for Improving population

To clarify what I think Ville is saying - which btw is a great idea that should be implemented tomorrow if not sooner - is allow the forum buy / sell / trade sections to be used for selling timecodes.

I cant think of one good reason why not.

Re: Idea for Improving population

BankOfEngland wrote:

To clarify what I think Ville is saying - which btw is a great idea that should be implemented tomorrow if not sooner - is allow the forum buy / sell / trade sections to be used for selling timecodes.

I cant think of one good reason why not.

So long as the Devs put in the EULA that scamming with time codes is a ban able offence. I have no issues with scamers but on this there would need to be a clear rule.

Re: Idea for Improving population

If anyone would get scammed it should be pretty obvious when they complained who got scammed by who and that shouldn't take much time to sort out.

Re: Idea for Improving population

Btw I would love Plex's, it will basically make me rich over night, with out a penny of RL money spent.

Really, the markets would EXPLODE!!!

Just Sayin
01000110 01110010 01100101 01100101 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100011 01100101 01110010 01110011
smileneutralsadbig_smileyikeswinkhmmtonguelolmadrollcoolyarr

Re: Idea for Improving population

darth sidi0us wrote:
BankOfEngland wrote:

To clarify what I think Ville is saying - which btw is a great idea that should be implemented tomorrow if not sooner - is allow the forum buy / sell / trade sections to be used for selling timecodes.

I cant think of one good reason why not.

So long as the Devs put in the EULA that scamming with time codes is a ban able offence. I have no issues with scamers but on this there would need to be a clear rule.

If It would be allowed, I ask that it be allowed with out moderation, its a sandbox mmo and we all assume risks.  Because it would be hella easy for someone to say I got ripped off by (insert player who ghanked my miner) and without moderation the Devs have 0% additional work to do.  We don't even need another forum section, I will sell in the forum sections under "selling items" and will even advertise in trade chat (modestly).


Me personally every two weeks I would have 2~3 GTCs (30 day) for sell if it would be legal.  All I need is the Go or no go from the moderators.  What do you say Dev Zoom?

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Re: Idea for Improving population

Ville wrote:
darth sidi0us wrote:
BankOfEngland wrote:

To clarify what I think Ville is saying - which btw is a great idea that should be implemented tomorrow if not sooner - is allow the forum buy / sell / trade sections to be used for selling timecodes.

I cant think of one good reason why not.

So long as the Devs put in the EULA that scamming with time codes is a ban able offence. I have no issues with scamers but on this there would need to be a clear rule.

If It would be allowed, I ask that it be allowed with out moderation, its a sandbox mmo and we all assume risks.  Because it would be hella easy for someone to say I got ripped off by (insert player who ghanked my miner) and without moderation the Devs have 0% additional work to do.  We don't even need another forum section, I will sell in the forum sections under "selling items" and will even advertise in trade chat (modestly).


Me personally every two weeks I would have 2~3 GTCs (30 day) for sell if it would be legal.  All I need is the Go or no go from the moderators.  What do you say Dev Zoom?


Thats easy... All sale must be posted about on the forums. If there isnt a tracable public statement of a trade & cost of the trade & both parties saing they agree to those terms. If you cant be bothered to do and you get scammed then thats on your head.

Unless the Devs bring in an IN game trade able item... which would be better smile