1 Topic by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-02-19 22:31:52)

  • JOKE
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Topic: The solo game

Not much has been done about the solo play style specially for new players. Some might bring up the importance of team play or join a corp, but with such a low player base there is not always enough players on the same TZ and on the same place to get going and do stuff together. So are we going to retain more players without solo play being more viable?

Player retention is really low and solo aspect is usually the first impression of the game. Issues usually are:

Mining/harvesting: Many ore spots too far away from terminals/outpost long grind hauling on such limited cargo space. Only option would be to get a second account.

Assignments: Should be closer to terminals or give much better rewards and standing. More varied assignments should be done in the near future specially for starting players, game feels too grindy to start out with.

PVE Farming: Again, needs a hauler alt or join a corp but everyone wants to fight not haul.

All in all seems like a big grind fest to get up on your feet and the low pop does not help matters. Might be the time after the gamma island update to offer more options for alpha and solo play.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • Bacon
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Re: The solo game

Well if the would bring back BETTER Alpha 1 Ore fields this might make a difference.

Fix the Unit sizes of drops and such...make them just a bit smaller...(just a smudge).

My thoughts.

Just Sayin
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  • CIR
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Re: The solo game

A new field can type, with a longer deployed timer, would be a good addition. In fact, it would be good to see (3) field cans;

All (3) models operate the same, meaning they will stay open indefinetly as long as they are actived (Can window open in client).

Short - with a 5 min expiration, no locking
Standard - with 15 min expiration, lock expires at 10 min
Long - with a 60 min expiration, 20 min if empty, lock expires at 45 mins

This provides new solo players with a can that is useable for solo farming, and the short can for solo beta miners.

One size fits all can we have now isn't versitile enough.

Note: the short can could have issues with DC's, 5 min should be enough time, but should be considered use at your own risk.

4 Reply by Inspiration (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-19 23:26:58)

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Re: The solo game

Any of the suggested changes will just make more progressed players abuse it. One way to counter this is to make it all part of lower level missions, then you can make content not accessible to others!

What I would like to see for newer players is to get rid of the agent creation screen almost completely, just select a faction and gender and be done with it. Then give access to all starting skills (of all factions), and allow the downgrade option to specialize and experiment. It would take a ton of uninformed choices away from the game and new player will get into things faster and more informed!

5 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-02-19 23:46:29)

  • JOKE
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Re: The solo game

@binary : Really good idea to reduce unit size of drop just a little further, maybe have damaged items with a fix unit size and definitely slightly better ore fields in alpha 1 with more of them close to stations. Mining could actually get worse for new players if we change to dynamic ore spots so hope they take that into question and leave some fixed spots.

@Arga: That would really give more options for solo play, another option would be to limit container capacities if need be.

@Inspiration: Though they have to be cautious with any change, advanced players already kind of 'abuse' the system with lithus alts so I don't think in would make much of a difference. I totally agree to get rid off most of the agent creation screen it's totally redundant after the attribute changes and more freedom with the skill point can only make it better. +1

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: The solo game

Inspiration wrote:

Any of the suggested changes will just make more progressed players abuse it.

err... how? Can't see how any of the proposed by Arga or Binary could be abused.

7 Reply by Inspiration (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-20 00:29:51)

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Re: The solo game

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Inspiration wrote:

Any of the suggested changes will just make more progressed players abuse it.

err... how? Can't see how any of the proposed by Arga or Binary could be abused.

Image more and better ore fields near starter terminals, who do you think will be the first to mine them clean every day? When things that make doing stuff the easier way, are open to everyone, everyone will use it, that is unavoidable. In the example of mining, that means starters will just find ravaged fields!

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Re: The solo game

A longer deployment time for cans in general I see as a good idea, for many circumstances the current 15 minutes is just too short when no hauler alt is present and it won't be game destabilizing.

  • JOKE
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Re: The solo game

Inspiration wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Inspiration wrote:

Any of the suggested changes will just make more progressed players abuse it.

err... how? Can't see how any of the proposed by Arga or Binary could be abused.

Image more and better ore fields near starter terminals, who do you think will be the first to mine them clean every day? When things that make doing stuff the easier way, are open to everyone, everyone will use it, that is unavoidable. In the example of mining, that means starters will just find ravaged fields!

They are mostly ravaged fields anyways in alpha 1. neutral

RIP PERPETUUM

10 Reply by Inspiration (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-20 00:40:40)

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Re: The solo game

Celebro wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:

err... how? Can't see how any of the proposed by Arga or Binary could be abused.

Image more and better ore fields near starter terminals, who do you think will be the first to mine them clean every day? When things that make doing stuff the easier way, are open to everyone, everyone will use it, that is unavoidable. In the example of mining, that means starters will just find ravaged fields!

They are mostly ravaged fields anyways in alpha 1. neutral

Hence make fields spawn only visible for the one owning the mission and make the missions only level 1 or something. Also make anything industrial up to that level not candidate to groups and you plugged all the holes as far as i am concerned.

Eventually people grow out of this level of missions and the easy ore is no longer available, then they are on their own!

  • CIR
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Re: The solo game

Inspiration wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Inspiration wrote:

Any of the suggested changes will just make more progressed players abuse it.

err... how? Can't see how any of the proposed by Arga or Binary could be abused.

Image more and better ore fields near starter terminals, who do you think will be the first to mine them clean every day? When things that make doing stuff the easier way, are open to everyone, everyone will use it, that is unavoidable. In the example of mining, that means starters will just find ravaged fields!

Inspiration what are you smoking? ive got more EP sunk into mining on my alt that you probably have on your account... There is no way in hell i would mine on Alpha 1.

Thats for noobs.

-1 for any incentives for older players to live on alpha 1. which better ore fields will do in the long run.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
  • Bacon
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Re: The solo game

All of you do realize all the Alpha 1 spots were nerfed to hell and back when A2's came out....just saying folks.

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Just Sayin
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  • CONDI
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Re: The solo game

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

All of you do realize all the Alpha 1 spots were nerfed to hell and back when A2's came out....just saying folks.

                                                                                      fuuu

Really ?!?! no way! when did this come in??

  • PHM
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Re: The solo game

Read people, read....instead of reaction to something I did not write!
Come back when you did read!

15 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-03-25 19:50:03)

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Re: The solo game

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

All of you do realize all the Alpha 1 spots were nerfed to hell and back when A2's came out....just saying folks.

                                                                                      fuuu


Yes that's right, and a whole bunch of players left for good. I really never understood the reasoning behind that nerf. Nia looked so full all life back then, and we only had 6 islands.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • CIR
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Re: The solo game

Celebro wrote:
0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

All of you do realize all the Alpha 1 spots were nerfed to hell and back when A2's came out....just saying folks.

                                                                                      fuuu


Yes that's right, and a whole bunch of players left for good. I really never understood the reasoning behind that nerf. Nia looked so full all life back then, and we only had 6 islands.

indeed i mean would i be wrong in saying that the game started to slowly go down from about April 2011? if we exclude the EVE influx which masked the population issues.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
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Re: The solo game

Risk vs. Reward = without risk, no reward.

If you take this as base for your balancing, than there must be a reward for your risk on beta. If you can do everything on alpha 1 without any real risk, there is no reason to go to beta except for blobbing up those who try to live there fulltime.

solution: nerf carebear heaven to force them into pvp enebled zones.

since griefing, raping and ganking and metagaming is player made content, it must be possible at all costs *²
Instanced PvE content is a nogo, if pvp forces cannot *** you in your instance at any time

also, since npcs are dumb, and respawning perpetuual in the exact same location, grinding them with more then one account is the base assumption for balancing their loot  (= PvE income). Since the only risk while farming with more then two accounts, is a client crash/disconnect.


*²= cynical remark

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: The solo game

Why is that whenever someone is talking about making the game more solo friendly or playable with less time they just want to make the game easyer, instead of giving some real ideas? I think its fine that if you dont got a "friend" (alt smile ) to help u haul, then u shouldnt be as effectiv. That would actualy improve this would be some kind of hauling "market" that was discussed somewhere else. It would actualy give some "jobs" to the solo players, or if it would be done so those jobs can start out on the field then u could hire somone to haul for u.

19 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2012-03-26 15:41:42)

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Re: The solo game

You can make alot of money on alpha 2 islands without ever setting foot on beta with enough EP.

As far as solo content goes, there is very little to none of it on beta. Besides ninja epi/noralgis activities, you won't catch a solo player there. I don't think the devs have ever encouraged solo players to go there.

The players that do come accept the higher risk for higher reward. Sometimes they get ganked early or sometimes they come out ahead (Blackhorn is a good example of this)

The only issue I really see with island balance/solo content is the fact there are not level 4+ missions on alpha (and Mancs has said he is working on this in the future)

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: The solo game

Annihilator wrote:

solution: nerf carebear heaven to force them into pvp enebled zones.

Yeah we all seen how that worked SO good.

Imo the good balance is not around risk versus reward, more around game "entertainment" of beta versus alpha. Alpha should be "grind, buildup your forces". No SO fun PVE mechanics and PVP. Only grind pve, and go roam from alpha (what a good bunch of pvpers did since some time).

Beta should be "here is where all happens". Fun PBS (cities building), real politics, more complex PVE and NPC reactions against players etc...  Atm beta is only where epriton grows, and open pvp. Its should be more than that.

Still you must have not a such greater difference in income between alpha and beta. PVE wise. Ressources is a whole another story (ressource localization should be very stronger than "epi only on beta, and titan only on alpha" its not enough). That way wannabe beta dwellers can set up forces without feeling they REALLY lose their time.

All in all, risk versus reward dont really work imo, the focus should be more about risk versus fun, and not a so tremendous difference in incomes anywhere in the game world. Alpha = boring and safe.  Beta = fun and risky.

Ok more incomes to beta, but not so much that you simply suffocate medium EP vets, growing alpha corps wanting someday to go to beta.

Nobody asked himself WHY very few dare to lose their bots, only biggest corps/alliance go roam with bigger than assault ect...? Because the time sink of grind versus enjoyment of pvp is unbalanced. Except in light/assault (or big blobs where almost safe due to number).
Its where the balance cursor is not at its place.

Make me laugh PVP guys whining about not having any targets and scare pvp, and on the other side ask for alpha nerf. Its totally contradictory. You want to promote pvp? Ask for some robots and modules creation ease.

Not MORE incentive to go on beta due to alpha/beta income differences. LESS fear of having your heavy mech destroyed. That way you would see more solo players on beta, i think.

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Re: The solo game

noone is asking for an easy mode... troll somewhere else.

we are asking for rewarding (=fun) pve content.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: The solo game

eveyone loves to just throw 'Risk vs. Reward' out there...

Other then the fact that Risk is totally dynamic based on the situation, everyone has a different level of risk management and reward evaluation.

What this basically means is that each player's perception of risk and reward is going to be different.

The developers then, have to create a system and evaluate the activity it generates; by activity I do not mean players posting about how hard or easy something is, but how much time and material players use performing that activity in exchange for the reward.

If the 'average' return on time and investment for any activity is too high, then that activity requires readjustment in either difficulty or reward.

When the server has a lot of High EP (vetern) players in comparision to low EP (new), which happens with low subscription rates, then the level of Risk needed to average out the reward makes it difficult for new players to compete.

In PVE, without a continual escalation in risk for encounters, the reward can't be scaled up to match. So vetern players pursue activity on the same encounters, but do so with a greater return; pushing the average reward upwards. While fewer new players play the encounter with less reward, but without enough volume to reduce the average.

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Re: The solo game

Arga wrote:

Other then the fact that Risk is totally dynamic based on the situation, everyone has a different level of risk management and reward evaluation.

What this basically means is that each player's perception of risk and reward is going to be different.

The developers then, have to create a system and evaluate the activity it generates; by activity I do not mean players posting about how hard or easy something is, but how much time and material players use performing that activity in exchange for the reward.

If the 'average' return on time and investment for any activity is too high, then that activity requires readjustment in either difficulty or reward.

I may be confused by your explanations;

you mention perception of risk and reward, which does not reflect the real situation. Obviously risk assessments are different depending on the player, but taking them as a whole would prove that PVE solo in beta on your mk2 heavy is not the norm, as an example. 

Then you go on about reward vs time/difficulty which sounds logical, but has nothing to do with risk. hmm

Anyways solo players on beta right now are as safe as they can be with such a low population. The only problem is its still quite risky, this been going on since introduction of signal detector. We need a game world 20x or 50x larger to make solo viable on pvp areas.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • CIR
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Re: The solo game

I wrote that over a 4 hour time frame, ducking in and out of the forums as work permitted. I finally just hit send on my way out the door, and didn't bother to edit it for comprehension smile

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Re: The solo game

A new player's perspective (new to Perp, very experienced in MMOs):

(1) Do not try to push players anywhere by having "more fun" there.  If the game is not fun wherever a particular kind of player wishes to play, he doesn't relocate: you lose that player.  If that's OK, no problem.  If you wish to retain the player, they must have access to fun and reasonable success for where they are.  Everywhere in the game should have potential for fun-- perhaps different kinds of fun.
  Any part of the game with "less fun" or "no fun" deserves to be deleted or re-worked.

(2) It is impossible to "make" players play a certain kind of game.  If they wish to PvP, they will PvP.  If they do not wish to, they won't.  For PvP, the crux of the matter is whether your game's PvP is perceived by players as allowing them to do (a) what is advertised, and (b) what they expect PvP to allow.

(3) As has been said above, "risk versus reward" is a highly subjective thing.  Some folks have a video game, short-span, boom-reset-go-again playstyle.  Others like to see something grow or be created that has a chance of survival.  Even ardent PvPers require a way to replace their rides-- too much grinding necessary for restock will drive them away.

(4) Clearly defining the present state of your game allows players to make informed decisions about what they should expect.  "Alpha is safer but gives lower income" is fine if that is the expectation.  "Beta is where the organized and larger-scale PvP is likely to happen" is another possible perception.  Whether the game delivers on what it is perceived as promising contributes greatly to player staisfaction and retention, in my experience.

(5) Many players are not necessarily honest with themselves or with Devs as to what they really want.  It sounds cool to portray oneself as "hard core" or "not caring about <insert un-cool trait>".  When game Devs actually monitor  what players do, buy, etc., compared to what they say they do and want, it is often very different.