Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Arga wrote:

You'll need to build an outpost to dock and refine at, outposts will be PBS's, but not all PBS's will be outposts.

Well this was the question I was asking. Is there any info from anywhere suggesting that players will be able to build outposts?

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Yeah, zoom said you'll need to flatten the terrain before you build your outpost.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

We need something to develop trade and movement between gamma - beta. One way they went about beta -alpha is as you all know limit a resource (Titan) . Now in gamma we should not limit resources but limit production efficiency that way it creates movement, healthy trade and avoid the isolation without sacrificing available resources.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Ressources localisation FTW.  I wonder why it was not implemented at the beginning. Its so obvious....

Some may say it could create lockdown situations where nobody could create anything, or even worst a single entity would access alone the whole panel of ressources.  I say -no way-

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8690 … cesmap.png

Something like this is a bit too much and not very balanced/tought out, but you got the point.

Imagine how much it would "dynamize" the market/professions/circulation of ressources and NIC.  And PVP. Cause with that, you not just kill some miner to disable ennemies produciton capacity.  You try to CONQUER land. You try to get the ore, because you can sell it much money if your the only producer. That make everyone angry against you, and coalitions are created just to stop the "specific ressource" lockdown. INCENTIVES to PVP. More than KB epeen and taunt in GC...  Maybe that would make the game enjoyable for more peoples. Or not tongue

I cant see the bad side of that but surely there is one, just enlighten me...

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

So, outposts (well terminals but w/e) will be the central hub for PBS building, interesting.

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

This thread is becoming the catch-all, start a new one for the Outposts now that the blog is out.

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Arga wrote:
Dazamin wrote:

Also having a 'good' Island, will to some extent paint a big target on your corp, everyone wants to bring the big guy down.

Yes. If your the King, being the King is good.

If your the little guy trying to fight the king, that's not so much fun.

Game Theory Hat On:

I like the idea of small groups/small corps being able to move to the Gamma Islands, but a certain other game with vast tracts of open "wild space" has been trying to do that for years and it hasn't worked.  The big ones just grab more space and have roaming fleets to defend them.  Some may rent space, and various have more draconian or more generous "sharing" or "renting" plans, but frankly, if they put a big effort into grabbing it all, they expect to be able to profit from it, and fair enough.

That brings it back to the game infrastructure and the game population.  Certainly lots of space may reduce crowding until the player population grows-- but then again, see above.  Unless there is enough space that even a large corp would be spread too thinly to take it all, there may be no population-driven benefit.

In a sandbox game, it is usually anathema to have any mechanic or infrastructure that is perceived as "player-directING" rather than "player-directED".  This is, of course, an illusion.  There is always a limited menu of options from which to choose.  However, providing plenty of drama and possibilities for player-driven conflict tends to obfuscate that: artificial complexity can also be used as an easier substitute for actual depth.

So: what are some options that could be implemented that leave it up to the players as to how to react and to play, yet which do stimulate a desire for a large population to try out the Gamma Islands?  If Perpetuum can figure that out, then it will defintely have one up over the other sandbox.  PvP will be part of it, but economy and other relationships will be what makes it endure.  (Yes, PvP is a relationship.  wink  )

One thing that I will be intrigued to hear about-- or to see at implementation-- is simply the geography of the implementation.  That will have a huge effect on what the Beta Islands end up becoming, as well as the 1st and 2nd order relationships between the Gammas.  There would be a huge difference simply in linear links radiating outward, compared to branching links.  How many entrance/egress choke points there are is another factor.  For example, the perceived value of a Gamma "cluster" or "region", or even a single island, should include how easy it is to access, and therefore how easily it can be invaded, defended, and how easily it can communicate with large markets.  Links will definitely be one of the island "resources", especially if not all islands are created equally from the link standpoint.

As a corollary, if Perp will ever include other modes of transport in the future: flight, water surface, subsurface tubeways, whatever-- that may heat things up and introduce more choices and dynamism.

The issue that of course crops up is balancing the worth of trying to build things up, versus the worth of destroying them.  While the "epeen" and "just want to see things explode" camps will always want to destroy stuff, because that's an obvious ego-stroke, there still has to be incentive to see things being created.  Large wallets are not enough; numbers become boring after a while.  The power-ego-rush of claiming chunks of territory is one thing, and the sense of accomplishment of building outposts/fortresses/whatever, with useful facilities and factories, is another.

Devising how to let things be accomplished, at the same time as letting things be destroyable, is another thorny issue with which other games have wrestled.  Destruction drives the economy forward.  If it is the only thing which does, then the game is doomed to become just another mech shooter-- and there will be too much competition in that department.  More on that in another thread, "How can we support Perpetuum in the Year of the Mech?"

133 (edited by Burial 2012-03-13 19:21:42)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

I heard they were going to add 12 gamma islands. Rumor or can anyone confirm it?

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

The full rumor is that they will either be implementing 6 or 12 gamma islands.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Arga wrote:

The full rumor is that they will either be implementing 6 or 12 gamma islands.

What about Beta/alpha islands?

RIP PERPETUUM

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Celebro wrote:
Arga wrote:

The full rumor is that they will either be implementing 6 or 12 gamma islands.

What about Beta/alpha islands?

Because those island types are not procedurely generated, meaning they need lots of dev time which is currently being used for PBS, they aren't likely to add any for the initial expansion; but that's just speculation, they could surprise us (but not likely).

137 (edited by Syrissa 2012-03-14 14:14:57)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

well i think its clear now that the community is expecting more then 6 or 12 gamma islands. i think we mostly agree that we all want a big mass of new islands were even traveling between them becomes a factor.

personaly i tend to a mass of around 20-30 islands of the size we have today or less if they are able to bring up bigger landmasses.
and i think the islands should not be placed circular around the existing islands. there should be a batch of these islands somewhere.

138 (edited by Rabus0 2012-03-14 12:11:49)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

How u plan hold stations?
How will that reflect on market on alpha island?
-that is the most important question,because new players atm cant buy nothing on market because its empty,and what is on market is way too expencive!!! So after they spend few weeks in game they will left,specialy if they are alone

Are u all plan live in gamma?
What will happend when some random corp decide to come and destroy your buildings,and you are living there?
Only way out to hold stations will be ALLIANCE between corps,sience we dont have it in game atm!

Take on your mind players what u have in corp! For that story you need lot more than 15 in corp online!!!!
Ok some corps have 100 on paper,but only 10 in fleet max!

-None have coverd up all Time-zones,so it will be hard to hold station
-us tz is missing
-station will drop 100% of everything when u destroy it (is this true)
-any reliable number how much it will all cost?
-also you will need to dig out ore for station/reactors etc...
--its good because it has only one purpuose and its building stations =+1 for this


What you are "general speaking" getting on gamma islands?

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Rabus0 wrote:

How u plan hold stations?
How will that reflect on market on alpha island?
-that is the most important question,because new players atm cant buy nothing on market because its empty,and what is on market is way too expencive!!! So after they spend few weeks in game they will left,specialy if they are alone

Are u all plan live in gamma?
What will happend when some random corp decide to come and destroy your buildings,and you are living there?
Only way out to hold stations will be ALLIANCE between corps,sience we dont have it in game atm!

Take on your mind players what u have in corp! For that story you need lot more than 15 in corp online!!!!
Ok some corps have 100 on paper,but only 10 in fleet max!

-None have coverd up all Time-zones,so it will be hard to hold station
-us tz is missing
-station will drop 100% of everything when u destroy it (is this true)
-any reliable number how much it will all cost?
-also you will need to dig out ore for station/reactors etc...
--its good because it has only one purpuose and its building stations =+1 for this


What you are "general speaking" getting on gamma islands?

yes and yes.
you will have to do that. if you are a solo player then forget about gamma and stay on alpha... but that discussion is worong in this thread. gamma is for team players of corps and alliances. its for high end content. for terra forimg and building and holding your own stuff. if you ask why? its a game and a sandbox. we do it beacuse we like it.
if you dont like it - do something else.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

6 or 12 gamma islands?? Again we are supposed to make world war on a soccer field hmm    I really expected more, especially since theres a consensus in the playerbase...

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Syrissa wrote:
Rabus0 wrote:

How u plan hold stations?
How will that reflect on market on alpha island?
-that is the most important question,because new players atm cant buy nothing on market because its empty,and what is on market is way too expencive!!! So after they spend few weeks in game they will left,specialy if they are alone

Are u all plan live in gamma?
What will happend when some random corp decide to come and destroy your buildings,and you are living there?
Only way out to hold stations will be ALLIANCE between corps,sience we dont have it in game atm!

Take on your mind players what u have in corp! For that story you need lot more than 15 in corp online!!!!
Ok some corps have 100 on paper,but only 10 in fleet max!

-None have coverd up all Time-zones,so it will be hard to hold station
-us tz is missing
-station will drop 100% of everything when u destroy it (is this true)
-any reliable number how much it will all cost?
-also you will need to dig out ore for station/reactors etc...
--its good because it has only one purpuose and its building stations =+1 for this


What you are "general speaking" getting on gamma islands?

yes and yes.
you will have to do that. if you are a solo player then forget about gamma and stay on alpha... but that discussion is worong in this thread. gamma is for team players of corps and alliances. its for high end content. for terra forimg and building and holding your own stuff. if you ask why? its a game and a sandbox. we do it beacuse we like it.
if you dont like it - do something else.


You miss the point of my story... and jey i little drew with post,but

You are talking of sandbox all the time without reason and proper arguments behind it!
Your only argument is "gamma is for team players of corps and alliances"-> disagree!
Its all fine with gamma,but m8, you have 80 in general chat in pick time, and how much are alts? how much are on telesis? and ics Alpha?

Rest of 10 pilots are where,probably on beta?
You will have on the end few "sanbox" pilots and rest will leave game.. sadly!

BTW how much u and your friends have alts?
Is your alt also as you teamplayer?

I dont see on forum coherent discussion about real things,i just see "this is sandbox","give us pvp" etc!

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

It seems to be the plague of "wannabe sandbox" games those days.  Hardcore players attracted by FFA full loot, eacht time most vocal of the community, bending the game to a deathfrag match, then leaving it as theres nobody left to kill.  I dont say its the case of perpetuum. I just say, i look at other games, and the similarities are almost ridiculously obvious. Beware DEVS. FFA full loot is good, but deathmatch games there are many better than this one....

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

there needs to be 24+ new islands for the game to be sustainable ... its a simple formula ... give people space to play and they will.... dont give them the space to play and they wont.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

I think one of the concerns is putting too many resources into the game will reduce contention.

If there were 24 gamma islands, but only 6 of them had resources on them at launch time, would that satisfy making the game bigger? Or does it have to be 24 habitable space?

Part of the excitement of launch then, would be to explore these islands to find which were habitable and which were barren. The 'on-going' excitement, is the devs can activate roaming npc and roaming ore on the remaining 18 islands incrementaly (and semi-randomly, say 1 per month); Which would continue to drive exploration and attract new players out to gamma.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Yeah thats a good idea Arga, incremental implementation of ressources. But the true need was in ressources localization, and looks like it will never happens... ITS NOT TOO LATE!

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

resource localization needs rebalancing their usage in equip. It looks like it will never happen either roll

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

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Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

The new islands need to be 4 to 5 times bigger than they are now so that people can stake there place befor going to find others on the islands, the present ones are really too small. i dont think we need to have 12 or 24 new islands the same size they are now but 6 to 12 that are much bigger.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

JoJo McNugget wrote:

The new islands need to be 4 to 5 times bigger than they are now so that people can stake there place befor going to find others on the islands, the present ones are really too small. i dont think we need to have 12 or 24 new islands the same size they are now but 6 to 12 that are much bigger.

Current programming coding, or whatever you want to call it, prevents them from making bigger islands atm.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

the issue with bigger islands, worse connection of the islands, and missing inner teleports:

what can you do there?

The game is based around "beeing unable to gain profit without hauling the stuff somwhere to an indestructible and fixed terminal". The loss of your robot and respawn at your homebase not only means that you have lost a robot, but also that you probably have lost the income of your day (considering that it took you several hours to get there).

in short: the game is too much loot-based for an expansion...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear