51 (edited by Rex Amelius 2012-03-09 07:38:26)

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Thanks for supporting my point Ville, which is simply that 62nd and WAR did not set out to do anything to Karapyth or Norhopp. It was only a couple guys and occasional stragglers. If six heavies came along one day, well that's great. I'm glad you had 'decent' fights against 'fair' numbers of players. Sounds like fun!

---

The whole point of this thread is for players to express their opinions on the what and why of Perpetuum's woes. My opinion is that there are too few players (duh). But MY only solution is to hold out hope that the Devs will pull off some magnificent marketing campaign to show the world how awesome this game is. But I'm an Idealist and a Dreamer. I'll not actually do anything but talk about what should be.

Others now, they will take the situation we have and try to make the best of it, try to encourage others to make a better place of this drying desert. Thus Mara's theories on Player Endangerment & Efforts for Gentrification. It's not a 'superior' we-are-the-awesomest attitude. It's... Leadership and Philanthropy.

fuuu

Sparking to other games

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

screeny or it didn't happen.... I remember the 'climax' of the whole norhoop thing was 62nd and war logged in one morning and had 10-14 accounts logged in, most if not all 62nd and war have between 3 and 6 accounts so do the math. I think it was 6 RL people just logging in and logging out when the scout screamed there was a rat in the trap.

Come on ville don't get your panties in a bunch here you moved on the greener pastures it looks.

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Most of the very insightful posters give great reasons for the stagnation of the game.  Bianary, cudoz for the well arrainged original post.

Like always, Ville and Cobalt only want to use a great post for personal troll slams, but that is expected.

I echo so may of the issues that have been raised.  Most of all;
1. There is not enough space to support a large player base.  When your enemy can come from his home to your door in less than 15 minutes, that is a problem in an MMO.  This should take a serious effort.
2. The entire content of Perp can be experienced in less than 6 months.  I would guess that this is a pretty fair estimation of a serious gamers time commitment to this product.
3. Development communication to the player base has gone from good, to around at times, to non-existent.
4. There is a large number of the player base that would rather dig at each other than try to make the game healthy.

New issue that I did not catch anyone note:
- resources should not be available in concentrated areas.  In rl, you don't find gold next to aluminium and on the same plane as coal.  Every island should have a critical resource that others need.  In stead of having every island possessing every material, limit one island to 2 -4 basic elements (DON'T make them random, that is lame and too much work).  The higher the chance of death, the more prevalent and valuable the material.

Example - The three interior Alpha islands are rich with Titan and 2 other materials.  External Alpha have a chance of those but have higher grade materials and a chance of one high end.  Beta islands have all the listed and Epi.  Gama has all the above and concentrated ores that produce multiples of the above with one field when refined.

A model like this makes it NECESSARY to gain and hold territory therefore, creating war along with loss and the need to purchase from the builders and carebears.  Having every island spawn the same resources gives NO incentive to accumulate any other areas or through politics, make alliances with people that have the goods you need.

The same is true of NPC's.  Green bots should be on green islands, dont mix them around.  Make groups go get the kernels they need and only have high level kernels on PVP islands.  Like was mentioned.....10X the space (at least) and stop dumbing down the game.  If you make an item necessary to go get, players will band together and go get it, even if it means loosing fights to do so.

If you force politics and or trade, you will boost the market and cause conflict because well.....it is an MMO and we all like to hate other players or groups.

If Ville has the island that produces the kernels I need and one ore that I have to have, but we don't like each other enough to buy and sell between us..... guess what, he will find Heavies on his island and we will work out the  managment of the resourses needed with gause guns and heavy lauchers!  He might need the the level 8 blue kernels that only spawn around my island, and you guessed, if he wants those, he will have to lock and load to come get them!

This is healthy and makes people want to log in! Your game is stuck in 2nd gear and doing 30kph, and "we have a need, a need for speed!"   Slam this baby into 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear already!  We don't need a game for 1st graders! GIVE US A REASON TO PLAY!

54 (edited by Hunter 2012-03-10 04:29:54)

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Takeo Prime wrote:

GIVE US A REASON TO PLAY!

Nerf ERP!!!

PS GTFO. You have that deserved.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Hunter wrote:
Takeo Prime wrote:

GIVE US A REASON TO PLAY!

Nerf ERP!!!

PS GTFO. You have that deserved.

Sigh Hunter, you have to join the personal attack posy when the thread was going so well.  So it is obvious that you fit point #4.

Not sure what you mean about Nerf ERP.  Must have been before me, and GTFO from the game or forums....not sure (like most of the time) what you mean. roll

56 (edited by Hunter 2012-03-10 08:47:45)

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

This is the old story, that repeats long-long time:
1) Ppl ask DeV's to introduce new content.
2) New content introducing.
3) In the game appears some hardcore players who can use this content better than another players.
4) Another players got butthurt and go to cry about overpowered things and exploits.
5) Nerf and discontent of the hardcore players.
6) Leaving from the game.

Old hardcore players leaves because:
1) Too much times was nerfed their main goals, for which was spent REALLY A LOT OF TIME.
2) Even if already not nerfed, there is no certainty that tomorrow they not will be nerfed.
3) Politic bans.

In such sandboxes like perpetuum often global nerfes should not be. This is not CS or WOT. Each nerf puts cross on spent time of many ppl.

You really can't understand that nobody want's play game where whiners wins?..

once again. GTFO stupid whiners. You have that deserved.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Hunter wrote:

This is the old story, that repeats long-long time:
1) Ppl ask DeV's to introduce new content.
2) New content introducing.
3) In the game appears some hardcore players who can use this content better than another players.
4) Another players got butthurt and go to cry about overpowered things and exploits.
5) Nerf and discontent of the hardcore players.
6) Leaving from the game.

Old hardcore players leaves because:
1) Too much times was nerfed their main goals, for which was spent REALLY A LOT OF TIME.
2) Even if already not nerfed, there is no certainty that tomorrow they not will be nerfed.
3) Politic bans.

In such sandboxes like perpetuum often global nerfes should not be. This is not CS or WOT. Each nerf puts cross on spent time of many ppl.

You really can't understand that nobody want's play game where whiners wins?..

once again. GTFO stupid whiners. You have that deserved.

wow, I would comment but once again you just want to attack players and not the game.  Why is there only 200 or less people playing this game?  Why are people that are playing making continual posts about what is wrong?  Hunter, I will let your post speak for itself and not toss jabs back at a defenseless opponent.

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Lol @Hunter, he just doesn't understand how things work irl

59 (edited by Rex Amelius 2012-03-10 10:15:01)

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Welcome to the Perpetuum Hater's Ball

Sparking to other games

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Takeo Prime wrote:

wow, I would comment but once again you just want to attack players and not the game.  Why is there only 200 or less people playing this game?  Why are people that are playing making continual posts about what is wrong?  Hunter, I will let your post speak for itself and not toss jabs back at a defenseless opponent.

I remember the time with online 600+. And i remember the moments which forced the leaving of players.
About game - it's fine as is. I affraid that PBS will not increase online. It would be good if i mistaken.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Hunter wrote:

I remember the time with online 600+. And i remember the moments which forced the leaving of players.
About game - it's fine as is. I affraid that PBS will not increase online. It would be good if i mistaken.

Once we have PBS, a larger game world, and a bit more solo content, if they just start advertising more at that point I think the community will grow, and perpetuum has good odds for a great future. smile

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Takeo Prime wrote:

Like always, Ville and Cobalt only want to use a great post for personal troll slams

If you say so... at least i dont send personnal attacks to developers, who are doing what they can to make a new concept and interesting game. Maybe you can do better with your multi millions? And also you speak of personnal attacks, i never wished someone death would it be a joke or not so look at your own behavior before speaking

Takeo Prime wrote:

really hope that the core base of players in Perp dies with the game....obviously confused and immature group of developers.!

New issue that I did not catch anyone note:


- resources should not be available in concentrated areas.  In rl, you don't find gold next to aluminium and on the same plane as coal.  Every island should have a critical resource that others need.

Maybe you should start to interest in others post then

Cobalt wrote:

Ressources localisation FTW.  I wonder why it was not implemented at the beginning. Its so obvious....

Some may say it could create lockdown situations where nobody could create anything, or even worst a single entity would access alone the whole panel of ressources.  I say -no way-

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8690 … cesmap.png

Something like this is a bit too much and not very balanced/tought out, but you got the point.

Imagine how much it would "dynamize" the market/professions/circulation of ressources and NIC.  And PVP. Cause with that, you not just kill some miner to disable ennemies produciton capacity.  You try to CONQUER land. You try to get the ore, because you can sell it much money if your the only producer. That make everyone angry against you, and coalitions are created just to stop the "specific ressource" lockdown. INCENTIVES to PVP. More than KB epeen and taunt in GC...  Maybe that would make the game enjoyable for more peoples. Or not tongue

I cant see the bad side of that but surely there is one, just enlighten me...

As you can see i even made a mini map thingy to show what you think your the first to come with. Its being monthes that we talk about ressources localisation... But you certainly know better, and your ideas are always fresh..

To finish, i never attack someone just for the fun, and its never personnal (except Jelan but he love this so much lol).  I attacked you because you said the devs were somehow incompetents. Wich is false. I said you can make those statements when you do better, wich will never happen for sure.

I attacked Mara and some other because they spoke about a part of the playerbase in a degrading way. No player is a "prey", its a target. No player is a "predator", he just like to pvp and find defenseless miners. All in all i said those peoples should really look at what they write cause sometime its pathetic really, and when i read this i cant stop thinking of the image of cartman in southpark when they play WoW....

63 (edited by Takeo Prime 2012-03-10 17:05:05)

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Cobalt wrote:
Cobalt wrote:

Ressources localisation FTW.  I wonder why it was not implemented at the beginning. Its so obvious....

Some may say it could create lockdown situations where nobody could create anything, or even worst a single entity would access alone the whole panel of ressources.  I say -no way-

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8690 … cesmap.png

Something like this is a bit too much and not very balanced/tought out, but you got the point.

Imagine how much it would "dynamize" the market/professions/circulation of ressources and NIC.  And PVP. Cause with that, you not just kill some miner to disable ennemies produciton capacity.  You try to CONQUER land. You try to get the ore, because you can sell it much money if your the only producer. That make everyone angry against you, and coalitions are created just to stop the "specific ressource" lockdown. INCENTIVES to PVP. More than KB epeen and taunt in GC...  Maybe that would make the game enjoyable for more peoples. Or not tongue

I cant see the bad side of that but surely there is one, just enlighten me...

As you can see i even made a mini map thingy to show what you think your the first to come with. Its being monthes that we talk about ressources localisation... But you certainly know better, and your ideas are always fresh..

Cobalt I am very sorry I missed that thread!  That is exactly what I was thinking.  I try to stay up on topics but miss them from time to time.  Yes this will cause a "lockout" to minerals but I like it!  It creates movement in material prices, creates new friendships and adversaries, and best of all if horded it creates war!  Great map also.  I would add a bit more opportunity for other materials on each island, but I think you meant that in your post.  Just this one change would cause a dynamic for game play; a reason to log in and find a way to get what you need other than one throw away Terimis mining alt.

I will not argue on the dev point, we will just have to agree to disagree, but I ask you not to use kid gloves with them, it is not realistic and here is why.

When you charge for something you are receiving money for a product and therefore are taking on a responsibility to please your customers.  When you do this you pass the right of the customer to grade, judge, request, and at times demand product changes in content or quality.  This thread and many that have come before it show that the product that I am paying for, and have chosen to be a customer of is not up to the standards that I set (in this case a game for entertainment of which I can choose to spend my money on, or take it to another company that does meet my expectations as a customer). 

Take off the little kid pants and read into what I am saying when I tell the devs (my supplier) that they are NOT doing a good job.  That statement is saying to my supplier, like in real life, make the changes or I will find a new supplier.  This is how the business world works and just because this is a game does not change the customer/supplier dynamic that exists everywhere in life.

My comments are telling them, "I want to keep purchasing your product and I think that you can get thousands of others that will feel the same way if you use some sound judgment and stop screwing your customers over with bad decisions regarding the product that you are SELLING."

If that hurts someones feelings, then stay out of the business world.  That IS RL and applies to any goods or services that requires monetary exchange.  I am the customer, and I have standards.  They could be met but are not being met at this time.

sry for the wall of text but I am a business person and I sell goods to multi-million dollar clients everyday.  I will tell you a rl lesson that I hope will resinate with some.....it is better to have your customers tell you what you need to do to keep them, even if it hurts to hear it, then to have them just disapear!

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Yeah i agree about the business part.  But dont forget that they are trying to do something different, and lets be honest, if all the "sandox" mmos of today are failures, we wont have what we WANT to play for the next ten years.

But your right better ask and say that your unhappy with something, than just leave. At least you show dedication to the project.  IMO they are trying to "unify" seeral gameplay types that we players love, all that in a persistent world, and it is FOR SURE very hard. But if it works, the next generation of players will enjoy even further complexity of gamedesigns and player interactions.

Thats why i say "be cool on the dev team", even if we are customers, they are making something hard, would they just want to make money it would be a F2P korean style mmo. ***.  What i dont want is the whole playerbase to sharpen the pitchforks, then one day they say "Ok you won guys we surrender and close the server"...

Potential + Time + Good feedback =  sandbox?

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

I must add it's nice to see you guys are all still alive and kicking in this MMO.


And unfortunately still dealing with same game problems as ever. Was about to login today, check you all out, this post made me not do it smile There are some very high quality replies in this thread. Except for :Mara's post: lol smile))) That one still makes me chuckle.


Guys, have fun and keep up the hopes.


T.


PS: and no, this reply adds nothing constructive smile

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

I see the newest patch as one step in the correct direction to improving the PVP value of this game, a good mix of walls for defense, but not too much where you can spam them where ever you wish them. 

If the Dev's can correct these mistakes just a bit faster next time you will see a much better response from the community as at large.  But please do remember, PBS will not save this game, it will only be one step to making it better.

Just Sayin
01000110 01110010 01100101 01100101 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100011 01100101 01110010 01110011
smileneutralsadbig_smileyikeswinkhmmtonguelolmadrollcoolyarr

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

I think its more a massive amount of new landmass rather than PBS system that would save the game IMO

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

I see the newest patch as one step in the correct direction to improving the PVP value of this game, a good mix of walls for defense, but not too much where you can spam them where ever you wish them. 

If the Dev's can correct these mistakes just a bit faster next time you will see a much better response from the community as at large.  But please do remember, PBS will not save this game, it will only be one step to making it better.

very true .. but this is a big step to helping the game.. but saying that if they bring in PBS with 12 islands & leave it at that ide have to question the devs thinking.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Ok someone has to say it.

Be realistic, walls wern't the issue with PVP, it has been and always will be the server population. Why walls came to the forfront is simply that's where a lot of players are, behind them. This will only get magnified with gamma if the population doesn't expand to meet the new areas.

If you look at the posts about PBS, a prevalent theme is that these destructables are going to 'force' players to undock to protect them. The concept here is that small roaming groups will be able to visit these gamma islands and get fights whenever they want, or at least have something to blow up to make the trip out there worth it.

The reality though, is you can't force anything, either the defenders have enough players/bots to counter the roam  - or they don't. Because of the destructable nature, gamma builders will use every tool, walls, TF, turrets, to prevent roaming groups from getting anywhere near the destructable items. Stopping roaming groups from blowing up desctuctables, by extension means, they are also not getting small group PVP on gamma either.

At first glance, this is OK, since beta is there for small group PVP still. Except, there has to be players on beta for that to work. There will be a number of alpha players/corps that will sense an opportunity to move out and use beta, hoping that a power vaccum has occured because vetern corps have moved to gamma. And this will probably be true for a short period of time while gamma corps build up defenses. But once they are done, they will quickly be bored, and be roaming again; assuming again that gamma defenses prevent small group pvp, then they will head to beta.

Roamers will go to where the targets are on beta. Making those areas 'unsafe' again, which will either drive those players back to alpha, or out of the game.

Again, this is based on current population sizes, simply meaning there will not be enough targets to satisfy all the roaming, so the small target base will get over roamed, frustrated, and leave.

If however, gamma defenses do not provide enough protection, corps will find the continual loss of PBS unsustainable. The nature of this game predicts those driven from gamma will pressure other gamma outposts in the same way; if there is only 1 gamma post, that's where the players will be, so that is what will get roamed.

tl;dr - A proper balance between defense and player base needs to be monitored and adjusted, there is no 'one-size-fits-all' solution. This is the greatest challenge the devs have, making the game challenging but still enjoyable.