Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls
At this point, I'd be happy just to see the next blog post.
I choose to think it has been delayed, and adjustments are being made based on player feedback. You must believe!!!!!:D
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At this point, I'd be happy just to see the next blog post.
I choose to think it has been delayed, and adjustments are being made based on player feedback. You must believe!!!!!:D
I think we've had a great discussion, mostly civil , and everyone brought up a lot of good points in both this thread and the possible TF abuse thread.
We've just basically played out the current information, you can only slice and dice a couple paragraphs for so long
I think we've had a great discussion, mostly civil , and everyone brought up a lot of good points in both this thread and the possible TF abuse thread.
We've just basically played out the current information, you can only slice and dice a couple paragraphs for so long
no no no we can do more! regurgitate!!regurgitate!! but ya the next blog is needed.... ive been waiting 2 weeks
How will be the connections? there are also some issues.
I just made a picture with +15 Gamma Island for the current world. The picture not means anything just made it you can thinging with that.
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/120228/Perpetuum … es.hu_.png
Id prefer something like this:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2268/p … kkapcs.png
where travel trough most island is promoted, and every island has at least 2 TP.
Also for further access to new ground one would have to pass trough high value island (highly protected logically).
This make up would promote more pvp and/or trading if high value islands have each one a material that is found only there. Alliances could put low value islands to neutral access, so those could be very good trading hubs by allowing other corps/alliances to sell/buy rare materials and commodities.
One faction island set could be also disputed by two alliances, where each of them control medium value island and try to get high value island, wich would be a battleground etc....
Nice cobalt, I like that.
We need to get away from "all islands are interconnected in circles to every other island around it".
Nice cobalt, I like that.
We need to get away from "all islands are interconnected in circles to every other island around it".
and imho, we need to get away from the placement in circles.
a "spawn" of thelodica islands could be placed so close together that its possible to "see" the other one from coast to coast. Layout more "natural" then "logical".
I do think that would drive isolationism, making the markets on those gamma islands even more removed from alpha markets.
I do think that would drive isolationism, making the markets on those gamma islands even more removed from alpha markets.
Unless there are no markets on gamma islands.
Shaedys wrote:I do think that would drive isolationism, making the markets on those gamma islands even more removed from alpha markets.
Unless there are no markets on gamma islands.
I don't see how there could be a market until a PBS outpost was built.
However, depending on how expensive and convoluted is the production of outposts, I can see where highly developed corp could build a production outpost on one side of the island, and a trading outpost near one of the external telelporters.
Of course, this does leave the possibility of your enemies getting into the outpost, so an Isolationist corp isn't going to do this, but a reasonably powerful corp, interested in trade would benefit more from a trading outpost then they would lose by letting people dock there.
Keep in mind, the outpost can be open and closed during certain times, to limit enemies from simply coming in on your off time zones. Or of course, just unlock it to a select few trading compaines, like what PIE was trying to be.
In either event, you'll still have full wall, moat, and mt doom defenses on your production outpost, and any barriers between the trade post and production post.
Or even better, more complicated rules than simply allow/deny docking.
Like:
-ability to confiscate private storages, or timer for private storage over wich content is put into owner corp storage.
-allowing/denying only one or more types of robots: only haulers, only miners etc...
-allowing/denying docking for robot that have certain types of item in cargo (ammos, bombs etc..)
There could be a very complete set of rules that would permit to finely tune allowance to OP and therefore create specific tasks for outposts: trading hubs, fortresses, diplomatic buildings.
More generally, id prefer a complete ruleset for buildings and various modifiable characteristics ( like maximum U storage capacity, structure hp, energy output or whatever they think of) than preset buildings.
Give bases for the building types, and let player create their own types of buildings in a "sandboxy" way. So that everyone dont have the exact same PBS based on min/maxxing.
Example:
*Corp/Alliance A has no ennemies except some weak pirates, they are a trading empire, based on market to build their power. They need many storage capacity but not much defense for their trading hubs but they need a real stronghold to keep the precious stuff (i am supposing PBS can be destroyed and their stock can be pillaged. If it was me i would suppress NICS entirely and would only put common plasmas as main currency, that would be real sandboxeness for everyone, but back on topic), fearing another strong alliance would putsh them and steal all their assets.
*Corp/Alliance B like to fight and get (or lose) new grounds often. They prefer to have their ressources homogeneously split for each fortress they have. But they need big production plants for all the stuff they blow up.
Now how do i see it:
Each structure has a fixed amount of empty "slots", and can be "fitted" like a bot (blueprint style, need to be arranged BEFORE building it, and once its build it cant be changed.
For example:
*Outpost: 5 slots
*Fortress: 10 slots
*Headquarters, homebase or whatever: 20 slots
Each structure has a different base cost.
Now the "modules":
*Storage capacity
*Repair facility
*Refinery
*Production facility
*Market (could limit type/number of buy/sell orders... or not)
*RE facility
*Power plant (OR if they decide to make separate building power plants connected to PBS, then forget this one.)
*Plating
*Shield capacitor
*All you can think of that would be internal to big PBS. No turrets etc...
Now the result:
Corp/alliance A would make lets say for trading hubs, Fortresses, with maybe one or more market (depending on the gamedesign for those ones), and many storage slots. But the HQ would have many plating and shield and some facilities.
Corp/alliance B would make many outposts, with only some storage, some plating and good shield defense for timezone holes defense. Their HQ would have many facilities and medium/good defense.
A mining hub could be created with storage, refinery and some plating.
Each building "modules" would have a level with exponential cost and more slots usages.
Refinery I : low cost and 1 slot use
Refinery IV: very high cost and 5 slots use
A modular approach for buildings and a complex ruleset for interaction could make a great sandbox combo for PBS imo
All number are just for the example nothing well tough out. But id far prefer a system where each building is unique, and things have to be tough out before building, than a system like a rts game base development. But i may be asking a bit too much...
Having something like a trade terminal that can be activated from outside the outpost would be interesting too. So, they don't have to actually dock up to buy/sell, and thier space is limited to thier cargo size. This would be more viable with freighters, but some small scale trading could still take place; and it would prevent someone moving 1 or more scarab loads of heavy mechs into the outpost to arm a fleet of arkhes arriving over a few days.
But even then, undocking 20+ heavies under the trade post, gives them a minor amount of surprise. The outpost is only 1000m from the TP, so that's really all the distance they have gained, they're still a long way from your real production center. Course, they could blow up the trade hub, which would result in some interesting questions about loot drops, but I did say the corp would have to be reasonably powerful to attempt this, which would include being able to guard the trading post.
Would be nice to see the NPCs on gamma running bot, mech, and heavy mech frames that are unique to them.
Frames that are not part of the current tech tree and hence cannot be bought or manufactured. They still drop the same modules, but could present a little more of a challenge.
Oh how about the DEVS use the hybrid bots/mechs for this idea.....? Maybe too hard, just an idea.
And they can drop named items like.... Zollest's awesome missile launcher of DOOM!
That's something we didn't really take into account, how random ore and free-range npc's will affect gamma islands.
If both Ore and NPC's are looking for passable terrain, its not only likely, but probable they will end up in the same locations if you TF too much of an island. Meaning your miners will have to be NPC farming or NPC tanking the whole time; unless these are Super Supeior Observer spawns, in which case simply mining on gamma is going to be an experience for the whole family.
This synergy could also greatly effect the ninja mining potential of having 'lots' of islands, because there isn't any where to set your base too, having NPC's spawn on you in the middle of no where is probably going to be more of an issue then having a PVPer gank you, and there's no way your going to run back to get your can from 2-3 Islands away.
Would be very nice if npc on gamma built up NPBS the same as PBS, very fast like in one night, and if you dont wipe them they continue to build strong defenses. The more the npc fortress stay and develop, the bigger the loot. They could also if nobody attack them, launch big attacks on PBS of certain size...
I already tough of this some times ago:
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/51640/#p51640
Yeah the maximum npc difficulty should equal 100% chance of death if big error against them, even for veterans, even in small/medium groups. It is balanced that way now and offer a real challenge.
Lets wait for heavier chassis ingame to see even more challenging pve. Because i think the game misses something in the area of "biggest threat possible". Maybe change the way pve HL is handled, why not use POS as an opportunity to do this?
Once we have our new islands adapted for structures creation, why not make the faction npc build highly defended structures, at random locations, preceded by roaming activity etc... What is most fun and realism, a giant robot/monster/whatever with 1 billion HP, that take a 40 players group 1hr to kill, or a giant fortress defended by swarms of low npcs, defensive turret structures, and maybe some observers or a little stronger opponents at the center near the loot.
From a lore/evolution of game perspective, i think implementing npc actions inside the POS system will be essential to develop the "war against natives" aspect of the persistent world. Once we get further inside Nian empire, we will obviously encounter ennemy structures. I think those structures should be almost all destuctible, except some key buildings. After that its easy to regularly adjust aliens response level to be in line with the story.
I wouldn't worry too much about trading outposts for two reasons. Firstly, Alpha should remain a hub for market activity, etc. As much as I like the idea of vast areas of Gamma, there should still be large population centres in the game. Secondly, look at the map and tell me how many non blue stations you can dock in? If you have an Eve account, or really any other game with a similar territory system, log in there and do the same thing. I think you may notice a trend.
I decided that this idea is too awesome to be buried in this thread and deserves it's own thread.
Cobalt:
"Would be very nice if npc on gamma built up NPBS the same as PBS, very fast like in one night, and if you dont wipe them they continue to build strong defenses. The more the npc fortress stay and develop, the bigger the loot. They could also if nobody attack them, launch big attacks on PBS of certain size..."
Jeah do it! The palyers need to DO something on new Islands (we cant do really nothing on existing :S ) NPBS is a really really nice idea!
Summarize the aboves:
-more island probably better at least 12
-diverse island
-dont connect the island as „all island are interconnected in circles to every other island around it.”
-NPBS on
-new materials
-I would like to constructable "roads"
Summarize the aboves:
-more island probably better at least 12
-diverse island
-dont connect the island as „all island are interconnected in circles to every other island around it.”
-NPBS on
-new materials-I would like to constructable "roads"
I would say at least 40 or 50 gamma islands.
Inda wrote:Summarize the aboves:
-more island probably better at least 12
-diverse island
-dont connect the island as „all island are interconnected in circles to every other island around it.”
-NPBS on
-new materials-I would like to constructable "roads"
I would say at least 40 or 50 gamma islands.
You should only be able to access them from beta 2 islands.
No direct access from any alpha.
Gremrod wrote:Inda wrote:Summarize the aboves:
-more island probably better at least 12
-diverse island
-dont connect the island as „all island are interconnected in circles to every other island around it.”
-NPBS on
-new materials-I would like to constructable "roads"
I would say at least 40 or 50 gamma islands.
You should only be able to access them from beta 2 islands.
No direct access from any alpha.
I think access routes or pipes if you want to call them need to be natural. So in that case, I would guess a natural direct route or pipe from Alpha to Gamma could and would occur.
I would not force all traffic to Gamma islands through Beta islands.
The routes currently in game are so predictable, I would hate to see this be repeated.
What I'd really like to see is another set of new islands on the FAR side of the gammas:
Alpha I - Beta - I/II - Gamma - Gamma - Gamma - Gamma - Gamma - Beta I/II - Alpha II
So you have to travel through those gamma islands to reach the far side, and then the next set of gamma's build off those, so you have trade stop over's between sets of gamma islands, which will generate remote trade hubs.
Those are New beta/alpha islands, not links to existing ones. This also gives alpha players room to spread out too, as well as new challenges and missions on those far islands.
Those new alpha's of course, would be added later, with just the gamma's coming soon (tm).
One thing I have realised with remote islands very far from the main market hubs is prototyping T1 and bots may become a possibility once more. Just a thought.
I think access routes or pipes if you want to call them need to be natural. So in that case, I would guess a natural direct route or pipe from Alpha to Gamma could and would occur.
I would not force all traffic to Gamma islands through Beta islands.
The routes currently in game are so predictable, I would hate to see this be repeated.
there are deployable inter-island teleporting devices, that enable you to jump between islands that have no permanent connections. They just need to be close enough to each other.
basing connections upon that would make different "main" routes for Trading and Combat forces
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