1 (edited by Phalanx 2012-11-14 09:08:29)

Topic: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

***Outdated mechanics.
New post needs to be written.

"There must be War . . . "

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Thanks for these tips. I've not allocated any EP yet and don't plan on doing so until I've finished all the tutorials and fully reviewed the extensions themselves. I am finding Mark Zima's Perpetuum Planner Tool (http://www.perpetuum-planner.com/) very useful for this.

What we are dealing with here is a total lack of respect for the law

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Believe me.
Not one person in Perpetuum will tell you Nav 6 is a bad idea.
Many would probably scream that Nav 9 should be done on day 1. In many ways they are right.

HhYyDdRrAa
tribal warriors

"There must be War . . . "

4 (edited by Toku 2011-06-29 13:50:25)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

NAV 10 is necessary for all aspects of Perp. Start with it and work on other skills. All period. Assignments, PvP, hauling.. everything! Just do yourself a favor and start with it maxed, you will always be glad for the speed. Not 6 or 8, you will be left behind. You could start at 9 but then that last point will take you awhile and you will be tempted to spend the ep on other "cheaper" skills before clicking it.

Ask anyone that has been here awhile.


p.s. As it is, NAV is a cheap skill and it doesn't take a lot to max it. Compare it to Adv Rob cost and smile.

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Toku wrote:

NAV 10 is necessary for all aspects of Perp. Start with it and work on other skills. All period. Assignments, PvP, hauling.. everything! Just do yourself a favor and start with it maxed, you will always be glad for the speed. Not 6 or 8, you will be left behind. You could start at 9 but then that last point will take you awhile and you will be tempted to spend the ep on other "cheaper" skills before clicking it.

As I've not allocated out any of my EP, this would leave me around 5k, plus the accumulation of the past few days, so maybe 10k in total... I think this may be the first allocation I make!

What we are dealing with here is a total lack of respect for the law

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Agreed. You'll never have to reset your account because of putting EP into Nav.

7 (edited by Phalanx 2011-06-29 23:41:10)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

I whole heartedly agree with Toku in that Nav is used in EVERY aspect of the game, and that Nav is EXTREMELY important. But new players should know the facts before making a decision.

New player starts with 20,000 ep.
Nav 6 - costs 1,620ep (leaves 18,380ep)
Nav 9 - costs 8,235ep  (leaves 11,765ep)
Nav 10 - costs 14,985ep (leaves 5,015ep)

Other mandatory skills for a PVE/PVP character with combat attributes
Assault Bot Skills (minimum)
Racial robot control 4 - 4,536
Basic robotics 4 -1,350

Basic PVE/PVP DPS weapon skills
Accelerated target locking 5 - 2,025
Armor repair 3 - 209
Mechanics 4 - free
Complex Mechanics 3 - 960
Energy management 3 - 2,745
Accumulator expansion 3 - 1,373
Reactor expansion 5 - 1,098
Basic racial weapon 3 - 840
Improved weapon range extensions 3 - ~1200
Precision weapon skills 3 - ~900
Rate of fire extensions 3 - ~1200
____________________________

With Nav 6 total is = 20,340ep (day 1) Fully loaded Baphomet/T3 light weight frame 72kph

With Nav 8 total is = 23,918 (day 3)

With Nav 9 total is = 26,955 (day 5)

With Nav 10 total is = 33,705 (day 9)

________________________________________

-Speed is extremely important in pvp
-The ability to make nic and pve is also extremely important
-EP's are free, bots are not. (in most peoples cases)
-Crap DPS for your first 3, 5, 9 days in game can be frustrating
-Nav 6,7,8 IS do-able with a cheap T3 frame and can still keep up with a battlegroup in a fully loaded assault bot with some minimum fighting skills.
-Nav 10 on day 1 will make PVE cash making difficult at best and probably keep you out of an assault bot (main pve bot for new players) for days to come.
-Nav 10 from day 1 will make you competitive in PvP right off the bat, speed-wise but lacking in all other aspects (accumulator, dps, target locking speed, armor, repair etc)

HhYyDdRrAa
tribal warriors

"There must be War . . . "

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Definetly regretting didnt read this thread 5 days ago (it didnt existed though).

Now i screwd up my extensions and dont now what do... Is the reset worth it on the first few days ? sad

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Phalanx wrote:

For the love of God. . .  Try extremely hard to show some patience and DO NOT use your respec your first couple of days in game. You WILL want to respec months from now when your play style and knowledge of the game has changed with experience.

Hold out with the extensions you already have and try to enjoy yourself with what ya picked. This is a long term game. There is nothing you could have done on your first roll that a week probably cant fix.

Hold on to that 'Trump' card and play it much later when the time is REALLY right.

"There must be War . . . "

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Phalanx wrote:
Phalanx wrote:

For the love of God. . .  Try extremely hard to show some patience and DO NOT use your respec your first couple of days in game. You WILL want to respec months from now when your play style and knowledge of the game has changed with experience.

Hold out with the extensions you already have and try to enjoy yourself with what ya picked. This is a long term game. There is nothing you could have done on your first roll that a week probably cant fix.

Hold on to that 'Trump' card and play it much later when the time is REALLY right.

Thanks for the advice ! smile
My corps mate gave me the same. So I will wait and suffer a few more days than needed. hmm

11 (edited by Dreamion 2011-07-03 19:09:40)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Would just like to thank you for your build you got there, haven't spend any EP before I found this thread, now I've been going with this for a couple of days, hopefully I will know what to spend my EP on later when im finished.

12 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-07-04 06:49:54)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

What does Nav 10 help you, when you need 5 shot to kill even the normal Drones? Nice, you are fast, but you can't make any money as you need more money to buy Amunition then you can loot out of your targets.
Not realy clever.

Same for PvP. What does it help, when you are fast enough to catch you target but then don't have the power to kill it? Cool, you can run with your squad, but that's all. Either the target is dead before you even locked it, or you die within seconds as you miss the suport skills to fit somethink usefull like plates/repper and miss the skills to get more then 1 cycle out of the repper.
Not realy clever again.

Nav 5 to 6 to start with, basic suport/weapon/bot skills to 5 too.
This way you can earn money for the first 1 or 2 weeks while you bring Nav to 7 or 8. Maybe even 9 but 10 is FAR to expensive for the first 2 month as nearly every other skill from 0 to 5 as more effect then the last 3% more speed.

I see just one use for Nav 10 from the beginning and that's if you plan a transport Agent. But then, what do you need for a Agent like this? Navigation, basic Robot stearing 4, industry Robot stearing 4. Agent finished.


PS: and please don't try to tell new guys they can start PvP from day 1.
They can be target dummys for vets, but NOT more!
It's like telling a level 1 WoW Druid he has a changs against a level 80 full pimped Warrior.

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

-1 for misuse of WOW analogy sad

14 (edited by Tweaker 2011-07-05 13:14:41)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Jack ive been playing for a week, 11 pvp kills so far, my Corp has had a lot to do with it I'm at nav 9 working on nav 10.

http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=agent&name=Tweaker

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Nav 10 is for keeping up with the rest of the gang. It's not mandatory until the moment you step into a mech. Light bot will be faster anyway. Don't get that last lvl navi right off the bat unless sitting in a hanger for the first week is your idea of fun. The basic skills for light/assault are cheap.

16 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-07-06 05:50:39)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Arga wrote:

-1 for misuse of WOW analogy sad

Sorry wink

Tweaker wrote:

Jack ive been playing for a week, 11 pvp kills so far, my Corp has had a lot to do with it I'm at nav 9 working on nav 10.

http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=agent&name=Tweaker

For every successfull Rookie PvP player there are 100, who just die horible.

It's allways posible to point out one "but I have done it".
This just point out "it is NOT normal, but when you try hard enough with heroic suport it can be done".

And when I check your "PvP" results and see THIS: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=454
Kain Mk2 + Kain Mk2 + Artemis + Prometheus +     Cameleon + Waspish against ONE super mighty and deadly Arkhe .... I must ask you, if you are realy proude of this Rookie-sloughter-fest??

Perfekt excample for: you can NOT do PvP from day 1 as you are just a target dummy!
And no Nav 10 would have helped this poor little guy to survive your gang bang!

And it's a shame, that you link this FAIL gang at all!
Go to ICS and kill the Traing Dummy. It's the same effect and needs as much "PvP skill" as 6v1 full pimped v hardly full fitt.

Hell, if I had such a message BY EXIDENT, I would try all to NOT make it public anywhere!



PS: rofl, just checked the other kills. Man you are my new personal hero big_smile
http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=214
11v1 ... well done PvP hero wink.

17 (edited by Koos 2011-07-06 06:38:59)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

If you want to head for PvP directly out of the terminals, then look at spending those EP on nav 10.

If you want to experience PvE or industry before heading to the Beta islands for PvP, hold back a little, and spend some of those EP on other things:
- you might want to add skills so your guns can actually hit something (precision firing etc);
- you might want to have a chance to actually get lock something (accelerated target locking);
- you might want to be able to rep in a fight (energy management etc);
- you might want to be able to mine, refine, build something.

You can always get Nav 10 after a few days, but you won't be useless for the first few days, and be stuck farming Arkhes.

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Jack Jombardo wrote:
Arga wrote:

-1 for misuse of WOW analogy sad

Sorry wink

Tweaker wrote:

Jack ive been playing for a week, 11 pvp kills so far, my Corp has had a lot to do with it I'm at nav 9 working on nav 10.

http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=agent&name=Tweaker

For every successfull Rookie PvP player there are 100, who just die horible.

It's allways posible to point out one "but I have done it".
This just point out "it is NOT normal, but when you try hard enough with heroic suport it can be done".

And when I check your "PvP" results and see THIS: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=454
Kain Mk2 + Kain Mk2 + Artemis + Prometheus +     Cameleon + Waspish against ONE super mighty and deadly Arkhe .... I must ask you, if you are realy proude of this Rookie-sloughter-fest??

Perfekt excample for: you can NOT do PvP from day 1 as you are just a target dummy!
And no Nav 10 would have helped this poor little guy to survive your gang bang!

And it's a shame, that you link this FAIL gang at all!
Go to ICS and kill the Traing Dummy. It's the same effect and needs as much "PvP skill" as 6v1 full pimped v hardly full fitt.

Hell, if I had such a message BY EXIDENT, I would try all to NOT make it public anywhere!



PS: rofl, just checked the other kills. Man you are my new personal hero big_smile
http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=214
11v1 ... well done PvP hero wink.

Actually, he laid final blow on that one, so it's rightfully his kill. You could've cited some other one where he just shot something with his little peashooter and got on the km. In any case, how can you tell from just the km how many people are in the victim's gang? For all we know the blob on the other side is bigger. Btw, bring more people on roams or expect to pop more often.

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

First off, Let it be know. It is a horrible idea to jump a arkhe in to beta while following 10+ Liths.... You will face a wall of guns and die horribly. o7 mr momo, who scouted for the 10 assaults that jumped in within 30 seconds of momo's death to attack the lithus.

Mr. Carebear as i do respect your contributions to the game and to my kill mails. Please make sure you (TM) all your EP suggestions for The Carebear life.

Within this game you do not have warp, you do not have mounts, you have navigation. In a field full of players maximizing there speed you either conform or pay the price.

PS <3 running lights/assaults down with my kain.

If you need help planning a EP path after Phalanx's useful guide feel free to get in touch with me in game. I will be glad to help you figure out what you should prioritize to reach your goal.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Lemon wrote:

...

Did I miss "PvP beginners" somewhere in Phalanx guide?

I'm with Phalanx when he say "get it to 6 min".
I'm not with Toku who wrote "must be 10".

Sandbox game == I don't have to feel bad when I ignore CS-style pew pew wink.

Playing games for nearly 25 years now == I know how important speed for PvP is AND I know how useless speed is, when you can't utilize it (bad fit, no range, slow lock times, and and and).

Well, this isn't fantasy or space ... but the mechanic is 100% the same when it comes to PvP. No singel realy "new" aspect, just different graphics smile.

But sorry Lemon, I don't care what you can do in PvP as I don't care about PvP in this game at all.
And it's absolut not new, that Vets like you outperform any newb. Same as usualy in EVERY game. Doesn't matter you are stearing a Mech here and not a Horse or Ship. Could even be a pink bunny and will be the same wink.

I love the PvE part and as long as you can't show me the "PvP" in "Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips" or Phalanx text I stand with it:
- Nav 10 == bad idear to start with as you miss to many important fitting+fight extensions

Yes, you might be able to steal a kill from your buddys by getting the last hit. But you aren't a real help for them except as one shot cannon food.

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Jack Jombardo wrote:
Lemon wrote:

...

Yada Yada

Im sorry all i read was "I know it all because i played another game"

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Could I suggest that 1 point in targetting will serve you better for early pve than 5 points in accelerated target locking, provided you do not have to fight too many players for spawns?

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Elirian wrote:

Could I suggest that 1 point in targetting will serve you better for early pve than 5 points in accelerated target locking, provided you do not have to fight too many players for spawns?

i would say, enough points in accelerated target locking to get at least one point in sensor connection (for sensor amp locktime bonus)

also, looking at that extension list, i miss "Data processing" which is more desired by Truhold-Markson noobs or industrial agents (missile + mining equip = CPU heavy)

and beginner tip nr. 1 for me, if youre going miner:
raise miningin efficiency prior to accumulator expansion

less ap consumption is worth more then faster recharge EP wise

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

24 (edited by Sonnyatien 2012-02-27 14:09:11)

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Anyone that just started using a Mech should have enough EP for Optomized Weapon Usage 4 to fit a weapon stabilizer. Without it, shooting an assault bot I miss with half my laser turrets.

Critical hit is also a great combat skill buried behind Weapon Analysis.

Re: Extensions (Skills) - Beginners Tips (old)

Small lasers have a hit dispersion of 3, and light ewar have a hit size of 2.75.

Med lasers have a hit dispersion of 8.

Precision firing 3 will give you 100% hit with small lasers on any bot (not equiped with an evasive module), well worth the 1080 EP.

Moving up to mechs, that should be a min of 5 to reduce your dispersion on med weapons to 6.8, but even at that you'll still have only a 40% chance to hit those light ewars in the spawns, which are the ones that ECM and demob you.

So, fitting the t1 weapon stab for an additional 10% reduction is a good use of a leg slot, since almost all PVE beginning spawns will have light bots.

And Assaults have a hit size of 4, 4/6.8 = 59%, your still losing 40% of your dps to missed shots.

tl;dr - For medium turret weapons and farming assaults/lights with a mech, you want to put as much EP into precision as you can afford, because a MISS is 0% damage, which negates any EP you may be putting into improving your % Dmg skills. And +1 for getting a weapon stab.