Topic: Fix for logout traps

For fixing logout traps i propose next:
After agent logged off on terrain, he leaving small probe with huge (lets say 250) masking value. If anyone shoots his fragile probe, agent will appear in a terminal next time he logs in.

This will give us ability to fight logout traps, plus good lore bacground for login-logout process.

Re: Fix for logout traps

Nothing to fix..........

It's called a trap for a reason........

Inappropriate signature.

Re: Fix for logout traps

Sounds like a nice idea at first, but it's very exploitable. Just shoot your hauler buddy's probe after mining is finished for an instant teleport to the base.

Re: Fix for logout traps

DEV Zoom wrote:

Sounds like a nice idea at first, but it's very exploitable. Just shoot your hauler buddy's probe after mining is finished for an instant teleport to the base.

Maybe if your probe gets shot, you can't agress / move for 5 minutes after logging in while your robot "recalibrates"

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

5 (edited by Egil 2012-02-27 17:03:49)

Re: Fix for logout traps

Sundial wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Sounds like a nice idea at first, but it's very exploitable. Just shoot your hauler buddy's probe after mining is finished for an instant teleport to the base.

Maybe if your probe gets shot, you can't agress / move for 5 minutes after logging in while your robot "recalibrates"

How does this stop the teleporting?

And I assumed that the bot got destroyed if the probe was destroyed.

Alexadar wrote:

For fixing logout traps i propose next:
After agent logged off on terrain, he leaving small probe with huge (lets say 250) masking value. If anyone shoots his fragile probe, agent will appear in a terminal next time he logs in.

This will give us ability to fight logout traps, plus good lore bacground for login-logout process.


I like the idea that instead of trying to remove metagaming you disguise it in game mechanics.

+1 until there's a truly effective way to remove login traps

Re: Fix for logout traps

You want to fight log in traps? Control your island.

Novablob knew where and how many 62nd/WAR were logged off when 62nd/WAR were pulling logoffski attacks on Kara and Uria. Intel ffs..... Probes, walls and scouts.. The solution is already there if you control your island.

Log in traps are a viable option for combat.. Ever heard the term ambush???

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7 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2012-02-27 17:40:56)

Re: Fix for logout traps

This was also being "discussed" in another thread, can't be bothered to find it and link.

However, face it, the log off mechanic is being used in a way not intended, as a low risk way of having forces deployed in the field to log on when it is advantageous to do so, as well as escaping from pursuit.

The very concept of a mech just disappearing from the terrain when the player logs is ludicrous, despite the need to account for disconnects and the player’s ability to log when needed.  Therefore, some other mechanic is needed.

If a  mech shuts down, completely powered off, on terrain, you would still have a mech standing there.  Fine, so how can the 2 issues meet, the ability to log, and a powered down mech on the terrain?

1)    If a person logs on terrain, the mech goes into powered down mode, which means it emits no energy or signals.  This means it would not show on radar, or the landmarks list,  nor be targetable, and immune to AOE. It would only be “eyesight” visible on the terrain.  In other words, you would have to be near it and “see” it on your screen.

2)    When the individual logs back in, they would still have instability and syndicate protection equal to what you would have thru a teleport or undocking from an outpost

Now, what about all the old accounts that have never bothered to log back on or renew sub?  Otherwise, you may find hundreds of these “logoff mode” bots all around teleports, which really will be an issue. Two ideas immediately come to mind:

1)    Leave them where they are.  This would create some hilarity, in that if one logs off in the middle of such a group, it would be hard to tell old from new.  However, this would probably add to lag and other issues, so is perhaps not in the best interest of gameplay

2)    After a set period of time, lets say a day for discussion’s sake, they finally disappear from the landscape, per the current mechanics.  This would limit the amount of static mech statues on the landscape, while insuring that reasonably active players would still show up.

This still allows for logoff traps, btw.  It just means that you have to “hide” you mech somewhere not in plain sight, or in terrain that is not frequented, but the possibility of being discovered still exists if a concerted search is made.  You might have to resort ot scouts to find a time when it is safe to log in and get out, but that is what it is all about, teamwork.

And it could also have some hilarity involved, like walling in those logged off mechs… “…For the love of god, Montresor!”

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Re: Fix for logout traps

1) Attacker will get PVP flag when your probe will be destroyed
2) Your cargo will be dropped to a ground as reward for a guy who found your probe
/solved

9 (edited by Sundial 2012-02-27 17:43:41)

Re: Fix for logout traps

The problem isn't Ambushing Scylla.

The problem is breaking game immersion via metagaming to actually pull off the ambush.

There should be ingame mechanics for ambushing, you shouldn't have to reply on something like log mechanics to achieve this.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Fix for logout traps

Alexadar wrote:

1) Attacker will get PVP flag when your probe will be destroyed
2) Your cargo will be dropped to a ground as reward for a guy who found your probe
/solved

lame Alex......

So just because I lost my internet connection while making my way around beta I should lose everything in my cargo if a fail probe is killed?

Oh wait-- need to safe log. Family emergency... Oops! My fail probe got killed and I just lost a lithus load of walls and charges that I was using to create wall spam.........

Man up and defend your island or get better allies to help you.

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Re: Fix for logout traps

So, really the issue is not logging out, it's when you log back in.

I make the distinction because there are many reasons why you may need to log in the field, RL issues, the end of your play sessions, or just wanting to leave your miner at the mining location for the next session; and just plain getting disconnected.

There is no 'fix' because it's impossible to know if a player disconnecting was intentional or not, or if they just needed to 'safe log' for 20 mins to run get laundry.

You 'could' put something about not being able to 'safe log' within 1km of a station, SAP, or TP. It's reasonable to assume if you can get to 1km from an outpost, you can make it the rest of the way inside, or that you can move 1km from a SAP then log out. But the game can't leave a disconnected bot on the field indefinetly, there's every possiblity you can get disconnected from the game (happens often to me) or have your modem go down legitametly, but that can then easily be worked around by forcing the client to close, and acheiveing a log off trap anyway.

There was mention of making a player immune and unable to targe upon relog in. And again, that's fine to stop a log in trap, but players get dc'd in battle all the time, and if they then log back in and are 'useless' but safe for a few minutes, that could still effect the battle's outcome; to a loss, and then you get *** when your syndicate protection drops anyway, while you stood there useless as your squad got wiped. Thats a recipe for rage.

tl;dr - In this case, the 'cures' are worse then the disease.

Re: Fix for logout traps

Arga is pretty much right. I mean when we move a gang anywhere, 4-5 ppl crash on every TP, things have been worse recently, but these things happen anyway, or sometimes people just have to log off there and then. I'm sorry to say I think logon traps might just be something we have to deal with.

13 (edited by Goffer 2012-02-27 19:25:23)

Re: Fix for logout traps

-1
I fully agree with Arga.
It is quite sad, that login traps exist, but I see no good solution as long as you get dc every now and than.

Re: Fix for logout traps

-1 to OP idea.

+1 to Arga for President.

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Re: Fix for logout traps

Funny I remember when RG was using log offs on nova effectivly and 62nd just kept at it now 62nd uses them and they are a blight on the game. Every PVP game I ever played has had forms of docking games and logg off traps its a part of the game. Just as the tactic bait and switch.... use a small bot to lure people in to your big bot. You could even go as far as saying CIR was using log off traps by letting 62nd go all the way under Dana before logging in and undocking 7-12 accounts, we would watch Nova channel go from 12 online to over 25 in a few mins after we got on their island.

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Re: Fix for logout traps

Khader Khan wrote:

watch Nova channel go from 12 online to over 25 in a few mins after we got on their island.


Sorry.... that was all me hmm

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Re: Fix for logout traps

No way to fix, and if anybody can use this is nearly cool, we got 2 times nice log on trap you need to manage that with WORK. There is no free bones from that. And the others also know there can be log in traps they be care about that.

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Re: Fix for logout traps

Lemon wrote:
Khader Khan wrote:

watch Nova channel go from 12 online to over 25 in a few mins after we got on their island.


Sorry.... that was all me hmm

I knew it  smile

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19 (edited by Kaldenines 2012-02-29 02:25:22)

Re: Fix for logout traps

Why are so many people convinced that it can't be fixed? There are many relatively simple solutions to this problem.

Just to name a few:

> Bots leaving a temporary trace (like the intrusion scanning charge) on the ground after logging off.
> *A kind of molecular instability for 2 min after logging in which makes the bot invulnerable, unable to attack or move but able to log back off.
> Random + 0 to 120 second delay when logging back in after being offline for more than 15min.
> Ability to scan down logged off bots using an artifact scanning-like mechanic.
> Some indicator of the number of logged off bots in an area (e.g. using a scanning charge or a counter on the landmarks)
> *A vortex animation with a 1 min delay indicating that something is logging in on the terrain.
> ...

*To deal with DCs there could a 5min grace period to log back in during which the mechanic does not apply.

Any number of variants and combinations of the above could be used to link logging in to intended game mechanics.  It would just take some careful thinking and balancing.

Off-course some people are just far too awesome to get caught by a logon trap while others think that login traps are an elite pvp manuver.

+1
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Re: Fix for logout traps

It's not that there aren't things that could be added, its simply that not every safe-log is a trap, but every log would have to be treated like it was.

The concept here, is if your stupid enough to log off while on beta, or unlucky enough to DC, then you'll just have to deal with the anti-log off mechanics, welcome to beta.

Alternately. you could fall victum to a login trap, welcome to beta.

Any arguement that beta is dangerous, can easily apply for or against anti-logoff trap mechanics.

My stance is simply that the simplist solution, which is just letting people logon/off, is the best solution.

21 (edited by Hunter 2012-02-29 07:56:39)

Re: Fix for logout traps

Funny... It's obviously that need fix, but how - not clear.
Main problem is that you care about ppl, who logged out in the field. I ask you: Why need care about them? Logout problem should worry only logged out ones.
Logout in the field should be equal risk of death (as minimum). Else why need a whole concept of destroying robots?
You try to create hardcore game and satisfy hamsters in one time. You never can do it.

Logged out in the field? - well good luck to you buddy! smile

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Re: Fix for logout traps

you can care about disconected ppl when you add a timer. say if you stay logged out for less then 10 mins then you can instantly log back. if its more then 10 mins the block mechanic works (what ever this will be).

Re: Fix for logout traps

Make bot stay where he was while logging out/dcing just add special syndicate protection that will prevent him from being locked ans will disappear after hes logging in.

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Re: Fix for logout traps

Scyylla wrote:

Nothing to fix..........

It's called a trap for a reason........

This ^^. No change possible, if its that OP go and do the same to the enemy.

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25 (edited by Annihilator 2012-03-08 14:10:01)

Re: Fix for logout traps

IF they ever consider that "login wherever you have logged out" is an issue that has to be fixed,

im for "no placement on terrain where you cannot place an incubator". You can logout right on someone elses SAP or outpost, but when you log back in, your placed 500m (sap) or 1k away from that position.

most of the "gatescouts", ninja-sapper or login-traps are arranged around the fact that you can log in right ontop of pvp critical element.

PS: this is already "working as not intended" for loging out at a certain Terrain formation. when you log back in, your placed several tiles away.

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