Topic: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

So, I was thinking about the upcoming stuff, and came to the conclusion that more would be better in terms of Gamma Islands. Many Corps / Alliances don't want to live right next door to an enemy, as it makes doing Indy / PvE VERY difficult. With lots of Islands, Alliances would naturally spread out, which would somewhat alleviate that problem.

So every Alliance would have their own Island, and a buffer around it, why would anyone fight?

Firstly, all Islands should not be equal (In terms of resources, etc), if your Island is not that great, you can consider taking a better one, using your current spot to build up your forces ready to invade your enemies home island and take it from them.

A super rare resource or multiple resources used to build PBS / New Bigger Robots. Even the best Island should not contain enough of this resource for significant production. So to get this resource you have two options 1) Trade for it or 2) Get your PBS Extractors on other Islands, most likely the buffer Islands between you and an enemy. Of course your enemy wants to do the same, so they will drive conflict between the two. Maybe to assist you, you make a deal with a smaller corp looking for somewhere to live. You offer them this buffer island and assistance with production, maybe build them some of these new bigger robots that they probably couldn't get on their own. In exchange they can help you defend your extractors, letting you know when enemies arrive, etc. But equally, because there are a lot of Islands and some are less desirable, if that small corp wants to go it alone, they can do it on one of those Islands, and gradually start the process of building themselves up, getting some extractors on other Islands and pushing other small corps off. Once they've done that they can start thinking about hitting an enemy on their home Island, and taking it for themselves.

Just some late night brainwaves. Comments / Criticism welcome.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Given the Dev Blog state that new islands can be made very simple by pressing buttons I assume they intend to bring more Gamma islands online when people need them.

(Or go looking for them.. wink )

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

More diversity in what the islands have to offer sounds like a good idea, promotes trade aswell as conflict smile

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Baal wrote:

More diversity in what the islands have to offer sounds like a good idea, promotes trade aswell as conflict smile

Yeah this is part of what I was trying to get at, to promote interactions between corps in a number of ways, not just PvP, but diplomacy & trade also. Just as important, having large numbers of diverse islands makes it a) Hard for one or two large alliances to control everything and b) makes (less desirable) space available for smaller corps / alliances to get into Gamma, without having to live right next door to one of the big boys and being constantly roamed. As they grow as a corp, they have opportunities to get involved in territorial warfare, again without necessarily having to charge headlong into a large alliances home island. I feel that a system like this would allow more corps to get into Gamma, and have being in Gamma help them build their corp further.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Alexander wrote:

Given the Dev Blog state that new islands can be made very simple by pressing buttons I assume they intend to bring more Gamma islands online when people need them.

(Or go looking for them.. wink )

Yeah I'm just trying to make a case for starting off with a reasonably large number of Islands

6 (edited by Inda 2012-02-22 11:16:29)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Dazamin: ... "Firstly, all Islands should not be equal (In terms of resources, etc), if your Island is not that great, you can consider taking a better one, using your current spot to build up your forces ready to invade your enemies home island and take it from them." ...

That is the real question here.
Will be 1 "ultimate"/ best island or more ? Then some other what is not so good? What will different and how much?
So with that have many advantage and many disadvantage also.

I cant say anything just what I feel because that is so hard question, so what I feel is I prefer the diverse Islands how much diverse and what about diverse I dont know :S.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Gamma islands for everyone!

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

24 gamma islands will solve the old problem.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

The devs making more islands "as needed" actually isnt the best thing to do lol... islands should be built b4 the need rises. GIve lots of space for the game to grow into... not this lets keep the game world small so ppl can find fast pvp.. fact is in a large world the players will know where they can go for fights.

Love or hate ccp they did it the right way when they made eve.. hmm

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Inda wrote:

Dazamin: ... "Firstly, all Islands should not be equal (In terms of resources, etc), if your Island is not that great, you can consider taking a better one, using your current spot to build up your forces ready to invade your enemies home island and take it from them." ...

That is the real question here.
Will be 1 "ultimate"/ best island or more ? Then some other what is not so good? What will different and how much?
So with that have many advantage and many disadvantage also.

I cant say anything just what I feel because that is so hard question, so what I feel is I prefer the diverse Islands how much diverse and what about diverse I dont know :S.

Yeah I guess diversity could cover a lot of things. How good the mining and npcing is, how much of the new resource there is, etc. Also location could be important, do you have easy access to other 'good' Islands to extract resources from them, do you have an easy logistics route to Alpha? Maybe how many teleports does the Island have? Maybe its an out of the way Island with a couple of teleports, or maybe it has 5-6 TPs going to different places, thats good for travelling, but maybe not so good if you don't want people jumping to your Island every 5 mins smile

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

@Daz

I think differenciated resources is one of the very few things the majority of the server agrees on. However, the Islands need to be balanced in a way that there isn't a 'best' Island. Every Island should have a strong and a weak resource, and if all the gamma's had just small pools of the new rare material that would be good too.

Keep in mind though, that resources regenerate, so even small pools of Gamma-X can be mined over time to acheive an outpost without having to visit other islands.

Where I'm going to disagree is with putting in 'lots' of Islands. I agree that there needs to be seperation in the Islands, so your enemy isn't just 1 jump away, but I think that can be done by rearranging the TP system.

Each Gamma can still have multiple exterior TP's, but they will only connect to their two beta faction Islands, with no inter-connection between gammas'.

Or, I should say that the first release of Islands should be limited. But as Obi says, plan to add more in a timely manner. Something like (3) at release, then (3) more after 3 months, and then add them as the population increases.

Ideally I'd like to see just (1) gamma Island at release, accessed from all 3 beta-II's, but Zoom has already said it will be the same size as the existing Islands, and that would just be too small for the conflict that would result in trying to access 1 island, if it was a continent, then just 1 would have worked.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Well to some extent there will be better and worse Islands, but I think to a large extent that will occur naturally through differentiated resources, the Islands with the most of whatever is most valuable will be considered the 'best' but I agree that it shouldn't be as simple as Island A has lots of everything, Island B a little less, Island C even less, lots of variation is good.

What would be the argument against lots of Islands? I see it as positive because it performs some useful functions. 1) Creates some natural spread, which makes running more indy on your Island more practical. 2) Resource spread creates multiple points for fighting over outside of your own Island. 3) Creates enough space for smaller corps to be able to experience Gamma Islands too.

One Island would be terrible, it would just be a perma PvP arena with little else going on. Three Islands, would mean Hokk Alliance lived on one, eHarm and friends on another, and 62nd & War maybe on the third. New corps would have no other option other than a direct attack on one of these Islands to get access to Gamma, with no room to build up on some less desirable Gamma Island first.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

+1 to more Islands

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

@daz Resource

Some islands may be better suited to certain play styles, but there shouldn't be a resource/game mechanic that makes a Gamma Island better. There shouldn't be any (1) Island that everyone wants, assuming they want it because it has some 'advantage', that advantage will also make it more difficult to take the Island from someone that has secured it, meaning once the King gets on the Island, it tends toward more powerful, making it more likely for them to keep it.

However, if each Island has trade-offs, then no Island is better or worse inherently, but the players can choose to enhance the strenghs and lessen the weakness. Put it on the Players to make Islands better, not on the resources or layouts.

@daz - Island Count

Continents are 4 or more islands put together, without dev created paths, would create sections that could eventually be connected, but without internal TP's, getting across the map would be just as time consuming as traveling across 2 islands now. Just being on the same Island would create a lot of conflict, but that is what we want with Gamma isn't it, actual 'reasons' to fight; and territory control is a great motivator. But like I mentioned, they can't tecnically make them yet, and I agree putting multiple alliances on one 'normal' sized gamma island would be too much (like putting 2 badgers in the same cage!)

There should be a musical chair effect with gamma, and not enough to go around. If players choose to create alliances to fit on the number of islands released, there's no way to stop that. Beta Islands aren't going away, those are still going to be valuable realestate at minimum as buffers to gamma, and as outposts smaller corps will be able to own, as the larger/powerful corps will be fighting over gamma's.

If new corps can build and thrive on gamma, then vetern corps will quickly be invincable on gamma. Personally I think the active player base is too low to support 3 gamma's, but I can't see a way to balance giving 2 factions gamma's and not the third.

On the other hand, and I mentioned this before too, if there were 'barren' islands with no resources but able to be TF and built on between the beta and gamma islands, that would be OK to create more 'space' and travel time.

Beta Islands are already ghost towns, except around intrusion times, adding in even more space without the population to fill it will only spread everyone out more. And while I'm not a big roam fan, it does keep players loggged in and active. If it takes 2 hours to find any sign of activity, only to come up on an empty can because the ninja mine/PVE had 5 minutes of warning from a probe on the exterior TP, that's going to get very frustrating very quickly.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

@ Arga

Territory Control in itself is not really a great motivator, the territory has to be worth controlling, so resources have to be good. Secondly, there has to be a reason to want Island A over Island B. Or else why fight anyone once you have some space. Thirdly having too few gamma islands leads to excluding most players from that gameplay (Terraforming, PBS, Gamma resources, etc) and the opportunity to build up their own corp / alliance on a 'bad' gamma island with the intention of taking a better Island. Finally, a system that encourages the harvesting of resources over more than just your home island creates opportunities for conflict in multiple places, beyond the current choice of run into their home island or stay on your island, and gives something to smaller corps who would prefer to a more 'pirate' style of play, hitting enemies at their weak points and stealing their resources, while trying to avoid the bigger defending force that is likely to be on a 'home' island.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Dazamin wrote:

there has to be a reason to want Island A over Island B. Or else why fight anyone once you have some space.

Fighting over resources isn't the only reason to want A over B, and the same could be said now. Why do corps that already own 2 or 3 outposts continue to fight?

17 (edited by Celebro 2012-02-22 20:13:38)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Arga wrote:
Dazamin wrote:

there has to be a reason to want Island A over Island B. Or else why fight anyone once you have some space.

Fighting over resources isn't the only reason to want A over B, and the same could be said now. Why do corps that already own 2 or 3 outposts continue to fight?


They like to PVP, but that's not reason enough for long, hence why CIR left and others imo.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Celebro wrote:
Arga wrote:
Dazamin wrote:

there has to be a reason to want Island A over Island B. Or else why fight anyone once you have some space.

Fighting over resources isn't the only reason to want A over B, and the same could be said now. Why do corps that already own 2 or 3 outposts continue to fight?


They like to PVP, but that's not reason enough for long, hence why CIR left and others imo.


Exactly, some PvP is just to PvP, some is probably motivated by grudges or whatever, but a real purpose beyond that would be very welcome.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

There's more behind the motivations than just good fights, or everyone would be like 62nd smile

Building something, makes it a target.

Destroying an expensive outpost would be a great victory for any pvp, even if they didn't want to live on that island. Building defenses is only 1/2 the gamma game. While there may be some corps willing to just turtle, there are enough agressive PVP corps out there that getting attacked will always be a concern.

I'm sure that some people already have a 2 page Ha-ha-I-killed-your-outpost post already formulated, just waiting. smile

So, blowing stuff up is just as strong a motivator in this game as building stuff up. That's where the conflict will arise from. The needle sways from side to side, so there isn't always a balance between destruction and creation, but its a pendulm effect.

20 (edited by Gremrod 2012-02-22 22:33:31)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

The is what is wrong:


Q: Do they has stuff we want?
A: No. We have all the same stuff because we can get the stuff we need without having to fight them for it.

Q: Does their island has stuff we don't have on our island?
A: No. We have all the same stuffs on our island.

Edit: This is what the game has now.

Q: So why do we fight?
A: Because we built all these combat mechs and need to use them for something.


This is what it needs.

Q: Can I get X resource on our island?
A: No. You have to get it from their island.

Q: How do we build a lot of X item? Because we need them for A. - Activity - B. Research - C. Production.
A: Hmm. I guess we go to war for that island over there since they have X resource we need.


All the gamma islands in the world mean nothing if the above is not fixed and done.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

21 (edited by Dazamin 2012-02-22 20:49:20)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Gremrod wrote:

The game is missing the following:


Q: Do they has stuff we want?
A: No. We have all the same stuff because we can get the stuff we need without having to fight them for it.

Q: Does their island has stuff we don't have on our island?
A: No. We have all the same stuffs on our island.

Q: So why do we fight?
A: Because we built all these combat mechs and need to use them for something.


Add in "Because I like to stroke my epeen" and its about right smile

Also, for the issues around unequal resources, yes it can create an imbalance and should be monitored and adjusted as necessary, but having said that, theres a lot more to being a successful corp than just having the best access to resources, its an advantage that can be offset by other corps being more efficient in other areas. Also having a 'good' Island, will to some extent paint a big target on your corp, everyone wants to bring the big guy down.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Dazamin wrote:

Also having a 'good' Island, will to some extent paint a big target on your corp, everyone wants to bring the big guy down.

Yes. If your the King, being the King is good.

If your the little guy trying to fight the king, that's not so much fun.

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Arga wrote:
Dazamin wrote:

Also having a 'good' Island, will to some extent paint a big target on your corp, everyone wants to bring the big guy down.

Yes. If your the King, being the King is good.

If your the little guy trying to fight the king, that's not so much fun.


I would say what I am proposing would help the little guy far more than having just three Gamma Islands easily locked down by an alliance.

It gives space for the little guy to grow, gives them access to gamma islands and gives them options to attack and affect 'the king' without the only option being "run head first into his defence squad"

24 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2012-02-22 22:14:17)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Arga wrote:

There's more behind the motivations than just good fights, or everyone would be like 62nd smile
I'm sure that some people already have a 2 page Ha-ha-I-killed-your-outpost post already formulated, just waiting. smile

So, blowing stuff up is just as strong a motivator in this game as building stuff up. That's where the conflict will arise from. The needle sways from side to side, so there isn't always a balance between destruction and creation, but its a pendulm effect.

This is true but it should only be one of many factors that drive PVP. If blowing up other people hard work is the only motivation. sure we will get fights. But we will endup with what we have now. XYZ island is yours & ABC island is mine.... & we roam each other for some GFs... why invade tho to try to throw you off your island? i have every thing ill ever need on my island. And were back to where we started and now game stagnation sets in... like we have had.

But i do think the the differences between the islands in terms of resources should be in terms of Strategic Resources not the ore we all go out & mine.

Its no one thing that drives conflict but a combo of a number of things

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

25 (edited by Sundial 2012-02-22 22:20:17)

Re: Gamma Islands - Make lots of them pls

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
Arga wrote:

There's more behind the motivations than just good fights, or everyone would be like 62nd smile
I'm sure that some people already have a 2 page Ha-ha-I-killed-your-outpost post already formulated, just waiting. smile

So, blowing stuff up is just as strong a motivator in this game as building stuff up. That's where the conflict will arise from. The needle sways from side to side, so there isn't always a balance between destruction and creation, but its a pendulm effect.

This is true but it should only be one of many factors that drive PVP. If blowing up other people hard work is the only motivation. sure we will get fights. But we will endup with what we have now. XYZ island is yours & ABC island is mine.... & we roam each other for some GFs... why invade tho to try to throw you off your island? i have every thing ill ever need on my island. And were back to where we started and now game stagnation sets in... like we have had.

But i do think the the differences between the islands in terms of resources should be in terms of Strategic Resources not the ore we all go out & mine.

Its no one thing that drives conflict but a combo of a number of things

Yeah, agreed. If all islands are equally desireable, PvP/Conquest won't naturally develop as much as it should as people wan't the best islands to defend/best and most recources.

+1 to strategic difference and different ammounts of things, but -1 to this no titan for you buisness fuuu

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.