Re: Terraforming

Celebro wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
Sundial wrote:

With scarabs logistics have become extremely simple. Yes you will have to escort stuff in and out, but you won't be as easy to harass because you will be much farther out. Also you hanv't thought the inter island teleporters...

If corps are constantly harassed living on beta, they won't be able to produce much, and if they can't produce much, they won't be able to PvP. The increased distance will help with this.

PvP hotpost island will develop based on who lives where.

The game world is way too small as it is.

I agree with ya here mate... make a game world bigger than what you need & let to population grow into it

+1 both comments

I agree SO MUCH with this. FFA pvp doesn't work when a world is too small. Give us more starsys....ehm... islands!

77 (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-19 17:44:02)

Re: Terraforming

I think some facts are lost in last commentators statements smile

Production wise everything in this game is safe on alpha, except for epriton mining and some noralgis harvesting. Which in my eyes constitutes an virtually unlimited world size. So the only reason left to be on beta is really the action of PvP, and given action doesnt come quick already...why on Nia would you want a larger world?

The argument of not enough room for pvp to flourish simply doesn't hold. Those that adhere to it, clearly have a clouded view by other motives.

78 (edited by Sundial 2012-02-19 18:01:10)

Re: Terraforming

Inspiration wrote:

I think some facts are lost in last comments statements smile

Production wise everything in this game is safe on alpha, except for epriton mining. Which in my eyes constitutes an virtually unlimited world size. So the only reason left to be on beta is really the action of PvP, and given action doesnt come quick already...why on Nia would you want a larger world?

The argument of not enough room for pvp to flourish simply doesn't hold. Those that adhere to it, clearly have a clouded view by other motives.

Living one jump away from a safezone is pretty much the biggest issue i can see with this games endgame on beta. Look at statecorp for example, their outpost is getting taken down, world isn't so big anymore is it? Living one jump away from safety in a game like this is tiny.

Pretty much all the islands have people living on them / claiming them as theirs. Thats with just 150 people in gen chat at peak time.

In EVE there was tons of empty space and people filled it. Known PvP hotspots developed as well. If EVE didn't have room to grow for 40,000 people, it wouldn't have that many people playing today.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

79 (edited by Egil 2012-02-19 18:29:42)

Re: Terraforming

Inspiration wrote:

I think some facts are lost in last commentators statements smile

Production wise everything in this game is safe on alpha, except for epriton mining and some noralgis harvesting. Which in my eyes constitutes an virtually unlimited world size. So the only reason left to be on beta is really the action of PvP, and given action doesnt come quick already...why on Nia would you want a larger world?

The argument of not enough room for pvp to flourish simply doesn't hold. Those that adhere to it, clearly have a clouded view by other motives.

It's not so much that there's no room.. It's more that anybody can reach anybody in a short amount of time. Where do you think pvp'ers go to look for targets? Anywhere and everywhere. It's just too easy to find them.

IMO distance is better than walls to protect yourself on beta. There should be a small risk of some random pvpgroup finding you..just enough to keep it tense.

Concerning rewards on beta... I really think that the further out you go from alpha the better rewards you should get. We need to put incentive for people to actually move out there.
I don't agree with you about the only reason to be on beta would be pvp. If it was? Why do we have so many corps out there living and building walls as we speak?
Because people like to have a piece to call home. Hokkalliance, Statecorp, TOG..why aren't they on alpha?

I type too much.. better stop now..

...yeah..and what Sundial said. ^^

80 (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-19 18:35:56)

Re: Terraforming

Sundial wrote:
Inspiration wrote:

I think some facts are lost in last comments statements smile

Production wise everything in this game is safe on alpha, except for epriton mining. Which in my eyes constitutes an virtually unlimited world size. So the only reason left to be on beta is really the action of PvP, and given action doesnt come quick already...why on Nia would you want a larger world?

The argument of not enough room for pvp to flourish simply doesn't hold. Those that adhere to it, clearly have a clouded view by other motives.

Living one jump away from a safezone is pretty much the biggest issue i can see with this games endgame on beta. Look at statecorp for example, their outpost is getting taken down, world isn't so big anymore is it? Living one jump away from safety in a game like this is tiny.

Pretty much all the islands have people living on them / claiming them as theirs. Thats with just 150 people in gen chat at peak time.

In EVE there was tons of empty space and people filled it. Known PvP hotspots developed as well. If EVE didn't have room to grow for 40,000 people, it wouldn't have that many people playing today.

Maybe, they did expand space at some point (drone regions and faction warfare region) and it filled up instantly without affecting much. Any expansion here would be enormous to the current size. In the dev blog it became clear we are talking about more then 3 islands of similar size as existing ones!

Besides distance, the other issue i got is resources. There ought to be some sort of economically valuable scarcity to fight over, what will it be with this an enormous resource expansion?

81 (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-19 18:39:30)

Re: Terraforming

With walls, distances are already virtually unlimited, if new islands come and terraforming too, walls have to be changed to serve another purpose then demobilizing whole islands. And I rather see bigger islands, then more ones with the same issues as current ones (choke points).

Re: Terraforming

Inspiration wrote:
Sundial wrote:
Inspiration wrote:

I think some facts are lost in last comments statements smile

Production wise everything in this game is safe on alpha, except for epriton mining. Which in my eyes constitutes an virtually unlimited world size. So the only reason left to be on beta is really the action of PvP, and given action doesnt come quick already...why on Nia would you want a larger world?

The argument of not enough room for pvp to flourish simply doesn't hold. Those that adhere to it, clearly have a clouded view by other motives.

Living one jump away from a safezone is pretty much the biggest issue i can see with this games endgame on beta. Look at statecorp for example, their outpost is getting taken down, world isn't so big anymore is it? Living one jump away from safety in a game like this is tiny.

Pretty much all the islands have people living on them / claiming them as theirs. Thats with just 150 people in gen chat at peak time.

In EVE there was tons of empty space and people filled it. Known PvP hotspots developed as well. If EVE didn't have room to grow for 40,000 people, it wouldn't have that many people playing today.

Maybe, they did expand space at some point (drone regions and faction warfare region) and it filled up instantly without affecting much. Any expansion here would be enormous to the current size. In the dev blog it became clear we are talking about more then 3 islands of similar size as existing ones!

Besides distance, the other issue i got is resources. There ought to be some sort of economically valuable scarcity to fight over, what will it be with this an enormous resource expansion?

Recources should be reballanced somehow going from alpha -> beta -> gamma.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

83 (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-19 19:01:23)

Re: Terraforming

@Sundial,

Well, on that we agree 100%, I just don't really like the probing for evasive ore fields that was mentioned in the blog. A slower rate of recovery would be a better option for alpha at least!

They could also reduce the presence of some ores on alpha and make the ores even more faction specific. That brings a bit more reason for trade into the picture.

And what do you think of simply enlarging Beta islands with new zones, instead of just spamming the map with more islands?

84 (edited by Inspiration 2012-02-19 19:13:02)

Re: Terraforming

Just for the record, I always put a break on change and like being conservative.

Being this way here, before a very different (pro) crowd i will at least get them to articulate their pro-change arguments better. I hope my fears will be addressed by the developers and also understood by others. I am not this way to troll in any way, this is just how I see the picture, even if my arguments are not always understood, just remember that!

Re: Terraforming

Inspiration wrote:

Just for the record, I always put a break on change and like being conservative.

Being this way here, before a very different (pro) crowd i will at least get them to articulate their pro-change arguments better. I hope my fears will be addressed by the developers and also understood by others. I am not this way to troll in any way, this is just how I see the picture, even if my arguments are not always understood, just remember that!

I like your humility. <3

Re: Terraforming

Inspiration wrote:

@Sundial,

Well, on that we agree 100%, I just don't really like the probing for evasive ore fields that was mentioned in the blog. A slower rate of recovery would be a better option for alpha at least!

They could also reduce the presence of some ores on alpha and make the ores even more faction specific. That brings a bit more reason for trade into the picture.

And what do you think of simply enlarging Beta islands with new zones, instead of just spamming the map with more islands?

Yeah, I wish thats how it worked, although it already does to a certain degree with specific ores.

Bigger islands are currently limited by the game engine.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

87 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2012-02-20 06:34:35)

Re: Terraforming

only way around making new bigger islands i guess is how the existing way islands are made can be "stitched" together to make bigger ones.

I was wondering is on the boarder of the 2 "stitched" maps. you had a "shield barrier" to show the boundary. the barrier could be generated along all map boundaries that but up to another map. The barrier is more visual only .... crossing it would give you instability but no syndicate protection.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Terraforming

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

only way around making new bigger islands i guess is how the existing way islands are made can be "stitched" together to make bigger ones.

I was wondering is on the boarder of the 2 "stitched" maps. you had a "shield barrier" to show the boundary. the barrier could be generated along all map boundaries that but up to another map. The barrier is more visual only .... crossing it would give you instability but no syndicate protection.

That is a pretty neat idea!

89

Re: Terraforming

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

only way around making new bigger islands i guess is how the existing way islands are made can be "stitched" together to make bigger ones.

I was wondering is on the boarder of the 2 "stitched" maps. you had a "shield barrier" to show the boundary. the barrier could be generated along all map boundaries that but up to another map. The barrier is more visual only .... crossing it would give you instability but no syndicate protection.

Or just allow ppl with pvp flag (istability will apply but you'll not get synd. protection) to jump from one island to another and BAM! the world is much bigger now.

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

Re: Terraforming

And breaking the lock?

You do know that this will be abused to no end.

Bottom line is that the game, in theory, can be redone to support seamless land. It will take a lots of work, and now the priority is on the sandbox element of the game. There is not much use with infinite world if you dont have anything to do in there.

Re: Terraforming

Siddy wrote:

And breaking the lock?

You do know that this will be abused to no end.

Bottom line is that the game, in theory, can be redone to support seamless land. It will take a lots of work, and now the priority is on the sandbox element of the game. There is not much use with infinite world if you dont have anything to do in there.

Well we both know if its gonna take s**t loads of work the devs wont be doing it for a long time sad On the up side at least they should be able to make more gamma islands.

Heres one issue tho. Inter Island TPs. I dont know about you but the way the TP network is spread like it is atm actually makes the game work smaller.

This is how ide prefer the game map to be set... Not every island class has the same amount of TPs.. some have 2 others 3 & some islands are hub islands...

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Pw4 … edit?pli=1

this was just something i threw together to illustrate what i mean.

I think it would be cool to have what ive shown the the right side of the map gamma islands spread around a Beta 1 Island that could be NPC controlled.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Terraforming

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Heres one issue tho. Inter Island TPs. I dont know about you but the way the TP network is spread like it is atm actually makes the game work smaller..

On this i agree, and it is something that can be fixed with moderate ease. Only real work is to re balance missions that go to other islands in accordance for the time needed to travel.

Re: Terraforming

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

This is how ide prefer the game map to be set... Not every island class has the same amount of TPs.. some have 2 others 3 & some islands are hub islands...

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Pw4 … edit?pli=1

this was just something i threw together to illustrate what i mean.

I think it would be cool to have what ive shown the the right side of the map gamma islands spread around a Beta 1 Island that could be NPC controlled.

This I like! smile Hopefully more of the G2-type islands/contintents..but still a very nice sketch!

94

Re: Terraforming

Siddy wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Heres one issue tho. Inter Island TPs. I dont know about you but the way the TP network is spread like it is atm actually makes the game work smaller..

On this i agree, and it is something that can be fixed with moderate ease. Only real work is to re balance missions that go to other islands in accordance for the time needed to travel.

/agree if i had my way i would get rid of all inner island TP's ....

and maybe for all the people who would QQ about it replace the TP's with highways that linked all of the old inner island TP paths.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Terraforming

Tux wrote:
Siddy wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Heres one issue tho. Inter Island TPs. I dont know about you but the way the TP network is spread like it is atm actually makes the game work smaller..

On this i agree, and it is something that can be fixed with moderate ease. Only real work is to re balance missions that go to other islands in accordance for the time needed to travel.

/agree if i had my way i would get rid of all inner island TP's ....

and maybe for all the people who would QQ about it replace the TP's with highways that linked all of the old inner island TP paths.

^^ agreed
Player built HWYs ftw! but really they offer more tactics HWYs imho

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Terraforming

Tp's are just as important to intra-island travel as highways, they both need to be available.

I do believe however, that the inner tp's should be pbs structures, and the number deployed be limited to the number of outposts built.

So if you only have 1 outpost, you can only build 1 inner TP. Even though it's not connected to any other TP on the Island, it would still provide a destination point if you wanted to use a mobile TP.

But, if you build a second outpost, on the other side of the island, then you can connect the two by TP, of course there would be a distance limit to how close the TP could be to the outpost (but really you don't want it close anyway, or your enemy will drop right on you too).

Highway's would be the primary mode of patrolling and logistics, at least outbound, giving plenty of time on terrain.

Re: Terraforming

Arga wrote:

Tp's are just as important to intra-island travel as highways, they both need to be available.

I do believe however, that the inner tp's should be pbs structures, and the number deployed be limited to the number of outposts built.

So if you only have 1 outpost, you can only build 1 inner TP. Even though it's not connected to any other TP on the Island, it would still provide a destination point if you wanted to use a mobile TP.

But, if you build a second outpost, on the other side of the island, then you can connect the two by TP, of course there would be a distance limit to how close the TP could be to the outpost (but really you don't want it close anyway, or your enemy will drop right on you too).

Highway's would be the primary mode of patrolling and logistics, at least outbound, giving plenty of time on terrain.


+1 Arga, great tie in to travel vs. island use.  I like this A LOT!

Re: Terraforming

Takeo Prime wrote:
Arga wrote:

Tp's are just as important to intra-island travel as highways, they both need to be available.

I do believe however, that the inner tp's should be pbs structures, and the number deployed be limited to the number of outposts built.

So if you only have 1 outpost, you can only build 1 inner TP. Even though it's not connected to any other TP on the Island, it would still provide a destination point if you wanted to use a mobile TP.

But, if you build a second outpost, on the other side of the island, then you can connect the two by TP, of course there would be a distance limit to how close the TP could be to the outpost (but really you don't want it close anyway, or your enemy will drop right on you too).

Highway's would be the primary mode of patrolling and logistics, at least outbound, giving plenty of time on terrain.


+1 Arga, great tie in to travel vs. island use.  I like this A LOT!

TAKE, Y U NO CRY ANYMOAR

Re: Terraforming

Jasdemi wrote:

TAKE, Y U NO CRY ANYMOAR


Because...

100

Re: Terraforming

So, up to this point -

The only real OMG didn't you see that coming problem with terraforming seems to be using it to generate impassable terrain around all the external teleporters.

Is this really going to be an issue, and if so, what can the devs do (short of not releasing TF) to combat that possibilty?