Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Calio, great post!

Just to build on your idea:

All prototypes can be made with any type of enhancer (small bonus only), adding flavour, and the prototype then created becomes locked, such that in cannot be reverse engineered.

Why is this good?

  • It builds on current system rather than revamping everything

  • It adds more flavour to modules

  • It makes prototypes more useful than for pure RE

  • Prototypes are inherently quite expensive, so allows people to 'pimp' their bots

In general, I think 'locking' a prototype from being reverse engineered would be great. For example, I would often love to sell prototypes to combat players, but the risk of RE makes it a hard decision.

Also I would like to see limited run CTs that prototypers/producers could sell without screwing themselves over. That way you could sell CT's but still control how they are used.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

The combat balance is every bit as delicate as the manufactoring system.

While making unique and different modules is would certainly add to building fun, it would also requirie balancing the use of those items.

28 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-02-15 23:19:50)

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Arga wrote:

The combat balance is every bit as delicate as the manufacturing system.

While making unique and different modules is would certainly add to building fun, it would also require balancing the use of those items.

Totally agree here. However, what I was suggesting would mean these 'special modules' would be really quite expensive (a T4 prototype is at least 4x times as expensive as a T4 module, often close to 6-7x [this is assuming good skills in both manufacturing and prototyping]) and I'd prefer to see small bonuses.

Sundial - very good point as well.

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

I would like to see a system in which 3 things are important namely:
1. type (modules; already in game smile)
2. technological level (tiers; already in game smile)
3. quality level (higher or lower quality i.e. beter characteristics, stronger materials, smaller volume or less weight; these modules can be improved or moulded by the crafters big_smile)

30 (edited by Calio 2012-02-15 23:52:05)

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Arga wrote:

The combat balance is every bit as delicate as the manufactoring system.

While making unique and different modules is would certainly add to building fun, it would also requirie balancing the use of those items.

Agreed.

But we alrerady have something to work off of! The + modules. So adding adding what I called cortexes (call em whatever you want) to the prototype process would allow them to be manufactured in limited and very expensive quantities (with cotexes as the bottleneck).

And, yes, as Lucius says, they need to be locked.

31 (edited by Arga 2012-02-16 01:27:04)

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

@Calio

I was thinking about the + modules too.

My concern is that they are now random rare drops instead of player created items. And while the cortexy things would be random too, the created results wouldn't be. What I mean is, it could take 200 sap loot cans to get (6) T4+ HCL lasers to fit a Seth (even though you could get 20 T4+ modules of different type a 10% drop rate), but it would only take (6) cortexs. So, the drop rate on cortexes would have to be very very low (less than 1%) to be inline with t4+ rarity.

While interesting, it wouldn't be something that most indy's couldn't participate in.

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Arga wrote:

@Calio

I was thinking about the + modules too.

So, the drop rate on cortexes would have to be very very low (less than 1%) to be inline with t4+ rarity.

While interesting, it wouldn't be something that most indy's couldn't participate in.

Yes, as I said, the drop rate would have to be very low (about as low as beacons) and it would require some number (5, 10, ?) to ,manufacture the bot or module.

Why can't indy's like me not buy them. We buy lots of other materials. It just adds to cost, which gets built into the price.

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Cal, do you mean cortex's seeded to the market?

There are corps, and some players, with alot of wealth, that would be willing to pay what ever it takes to get t4+ fits.

If just put up for sale by other players, if they are that rare, pvp corps will keep them and make the t4+ themselves, a few may leak onto the market, but they would be very expensive; if it was the 'key' ingrediant then it would be 90% of the value of the finished item, much like epi is now.

in general, devs have been continually making changes since launch to make research harder, and adding in briochet, to make sure that tiered gear remains relatively rare. If they did add in a way to produce t4+ or any + items, it would be rare or rarer then the current t4+ drop rates. Again, taking into account rnd versus specifically manufactored. Coming from WoW, this is like the difference between using orbs to craft that specific piece, or running a raid 100 times waiting for it to drop.

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Arga, I see your point, but the way I saw it was that they would be npc (and maybe also artifact) random rare drops (not seeded on market) with the same drop frequency as beacons (and from the same range of elite npcs), further diluted by the sheer number of different types (e.g., speed, armor, cpu, accu, reactor for bots; damage, rof, range, accu usage, etc for mods), so that even a noob with no immediate use for them could find them (and hit the lottery by selling them) and even a manufacturer with minimal combat skills could farm a low level spawn and have a chance.

Yes, the rich beta corps would offer outrageous sums for them early on (like they did for the floater kernels), but with combat losses, they would eventually have to slow down their purchases or be bled dry. So, after the first month's feeding frenzy, I suspect (perhaps wrongly) that things would settle down (as with floater kernels) and independents would be able to buy them on spec (if not find them) and use them to build with for purposes of sale.

Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic. I don't know.

35 (edited by Hunter 2012-02-17 04:32:49)

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

Annihilator wrote:
Tharrn wrote:

of 'everyone can craft everything and everything is the same

a Trail member wrote that about what he doesnt like about other games.

In Perpetuum you got Items in 4 tiers, and some divided into small and medium, and weapons in short and longrange.

A T4 HCL laser that I can craft is exactly the same as a T4 HCL laser that someone else can craft. The only difference is, how much materials each one has used to build it. (some can already create them with 30% Air)

Do you like that?
Lets discuss it!

Anni... I thought you smart guy.

If your hands grows ouf of *** - you'll never do same item with same materials as professional.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Crafting in Perpetuum - Discussion

How accurate are the market graphs in game? Looking at them it seems like one manufacturer can fill the demand of each product. With the obvious exception of consumables no more than a few units of about every piece of equipment switch owner via the market every day according to those graphs. Add the fact that there's usually only a small collection of modules that are actually used and you have a problem retaining (independent) manufacturers as there is simply no demand for their products.

As it boils down to agent numbers there's probably no easy solution to this problem though. Maybe PBS bring more player craftable stuff (like parts, which are then actually used to make PBS structures; more consumables like fuel or ammo for PBS; teleporter charges... whatever).

Right now I think the economy doesn't need more complexity (aka individual stats or more resources) but more depths (aka reasons to actually make stuff that's needed). I have the solo noob view though, so maybe it's just that there's no 'open' market but only internal markets in corps/alliances that work.