Topic: Walls decay over time

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Graph explains everything.

Re: Walls decay over time

Walls should decay based on the number of walls around them. (Within 21x21 or whatever it currently is).

But yes. Walls should need to be maintained weekly.

I AM NOT A GM™

Re: Walls decay over time

Alexandra wrote:

Walls should decay based on the number of walls around them. (Within 21x21 or whatever it currently is).

But yes. Walls should need to be maintained weekly.

No, they shouldn't

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

Re: Walls decay over time

Dan wrote:
Alexandra wrote:

Walls should decay based on the number of walls around them. (Within 21x21 or whatever it currently is).

But yes. Walls should need to be maintained weekly.

No, they shouldn't

Yes, they WILL.

5 (edited by Gremrod 2012-02-04 16:48:37)

Re: Walls decay over time

I think they should deflate like a bounce house and you have to hook one of those fans up to them to blow them back up again.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Walls decay over time

Jasdemies posts should decay over time too, they are to persistant.

walls havent been in for more then a few days now... naturally they will decay by beeing removed from explosions.

can you actually "heal" walls?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Walls decay over time

NO... NO ... PBS walls should not decay if you want them removed shoot them or buy a plasma bomb

How many years has the great wall of china been standing ?!?!?!

-1 makes for a bad PBS mechanic

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Walls decay over time

U guys dont know what ur talking about, we have to use at least one hour everyday and a million nic just to check if we got some breaches. U guys are just lazy and want a easy mode. u can bunker down ur own islands and see how fun it would be with decaying walls.

And if u guys want to do the "wall spamming" ur welcome, its time consuming and a huge nic sink. i have by my self put in over 250 million nic into the kent defense and over the last 72 hours i have probobly used 15 hours to grow the walls to get them to the state they are in now. And im not the only one doing stuff on kent. There is probobly been used over a billion nic on walls to get kent into the state it is now, and a lot more hours of dedicated players that have fun with the walls.


And  after the battle with morte last night i had to use additionally 40-60 minutes to fix the damage they did to the walls.

The walls are just fine. Working as intended, adapt and get used to it.

[05:36:51] <Lemon> i hate you... just so you know

[15:05:49] <Ville> I have to admit, that was pretty fu**ing pimp ^^
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Re: Walls decay over time

Kanogi, to quote you

"you don't know what your talking about."

This isnt eve, I don't want to spend my online time shooting or building walls that have been spammed, if they were even targetable it might be slightly better

In short, tactical wall placement with some limits good.  Unrestricted wall spam bad.

Ccp had to remove containers and they are probably the only similar unrestricted spamable item in the game.

Introducing form of pbs without limits in a sandbox mmo is just crazy

10 (edited by Kanogi 2012-02-04 19:07:35)

Re: Walls decay over time

well jelan u are just a troll that dont play to much anyway so why should ppl listen to u?

And where did EvE come into all this?

And u guys are just short minded, every time something new is introduced to this game there is always the ppl that are not happy with the new features that start the forum whine the loudest and the ppl that are happy with stuff as it is. But only a few days after the wall where introduced i have seen more ppl on beta than i have seen the last few months. The devs just made it so the risk/reward gap on beta got closed so it actually is worth living on beta. if u are willing to put the time and nic into it.

[05:36:51] <Lemon> i hate you... just so you know

[15:05:49] <Ville> I have to admit, that was pretty fu**ing pimp ^^
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Re: Walls decay over time

Kanogi wrote:

well jelan u are just a troll that dont play to much anyway so why should ppl listen to u?

And where did EvE come into all this?

Silence dirty peasant no-name! Don't ever dare to talk like this to our Troll King Jelan!

Re: Walls decay over time

Kanogi, that was freaking awesome last night!  You guys did a fantastic job locking kents infrastructure down.  If you have not yet have the pleasure of taking a stroll on Kent, I suggest you take it upon yourself to do so.  There wasa lot of time and man hours put into the wall structures there.

I have one complaint though:  If the walls can't be targeted and shot, then the bomb prices need to be reduced in Cost and U to make it a little more viable for attackers.  Right now a well thought out tactical wall structure gives the defenders a 2 to 1 advantage.

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Re: Walls decay over time

Ville wrote:

Kanogi, that was freaking awesome last night!  You guys did a fantastic job locking kents infrastructure down.  If you have not yet have the pleasure of taking a stroll on Kent, I suggest you take it upon yourself to do so.  There wasa lot of time and man hours put into the wall structures there.

I have one complaint though:  If the walls can't be targeted and shot, then the bomb prices need to be reduced in Cost and U to make it a little more viable for attackers.  Right now a well thought out tactical wall structure gives the defenders a 2 to 1 advantage.

Thanks Ville, and i kind of agree that the plasma bombs are  a little bit over priced one fully grown wall section cost 100k and the bomb damages around 10 wall sections so the bomb should cost around 10*100k

[05:36:51] <Lemon> i hate you... just so you know

[15:05:49] <Ville> I have to admit, that was pretty fu**ing pimp ^^
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Re: Walls decay over time

How many hours do I have to play to be allowed an opinion, I've managed 18 hours this week running 2-3 accounts, is that enough?

The point I was making was subjective, I disagree with your opinion, arrogance makes people think they are always right, just saying

OT:  unfettered wall spam is bad, watch this space, it'll all end in tears.  ***, great idea, I love walls.  The current implementation is bad for the game though imho

*edit: That's getting a little tiresome already. DEV Alf is not the only one designing this game. - DEV Zoom

Re: Walls decay over time

Kanogi wrote:

Thanks Ville, and i kind of agree that the plasma bombs are  a little bit over priced one fully grown wall section cost 100k and the bomb damages around 10 wall sections so the bomb should cost around 10*100k

Don't forget that you only need to breach one tile to make a whole line of wall a useless decoration.

Re: Walls decay over time

DEV Zoom wrote:
Kanogi wrote:

Thanks Ville, and i kind of agree that the plasma bombs are  a little bit over priced one fully grown wall section cost 100k and the bomb damages around 10 wall sections so the bomb should cost around 10*100k

Don't forget that you only need to breach one tile to make a whole line of wall a useless decoration.

Apart from that fact you need MORE than a 1 bomb to break one wall and on Kentagura alone you have to get through 5.

I AM NOT A GM™

Re: Walls decay over time

Jelan wrote:

How many hours do I have to play to be allowed an opinion, I've managed 18 hours this week running 2-3 accounts, is that enough?
The point I was making was subjective, I disagree with your opinion, arrogance makes people think they are always right, just saying
OT:  unfettered wall spam is bad, watch this space, it'll all end in tears.  ***, great idea, I love walls.  The current implementation is bad for the game though imho
*edit: That's getting a little tiresome already. DEV Alf is not the only one designing this game. - DEV Zoom

Well u made ur self the troll king so i cant take anything u say seriously anymore and that's not my fault, but its nice to hear that u are playing the game again yarr

[05:36:51] <Lemon> i hate you... just so you know

[15:05:49] <Ville> I have to admit, that was pretty fu**ing pimp ^^
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18

Re: Walls decay over time

For the whiners:

If your opponent has a strong wall system
Your choice is to bring a squirt gun or a fire hose.
The squirt gun will lose.

Don’t complain about trying to roam someone elses Island ... its their territory, they can build it how ever the feel is optimal. If its difficult to assault them that’s because they put in the work to make it that way. That is the benefit of living on beta .. you can own your own stuff and make it what you want. If you don’t like it go to alpha …
I’m perfectly happy mining my EPI in peace.

Walls are fragile as it is  . .

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Walls decay over time

Tux wrote:

For the whiners:

If your opponent has a strong wall system
Your choice is to bring a squirt gun or a fire hose.
The squirt gun will lose.

Don’t complain about trying to roam someone elses Island ... its their territory, they can build it how ever the feel is optimal. If its difficult to assault them that’s because they put in the work to make it that way. That is the benefit of living on beta .. you can own your own stuff and make it what you want. If you don’t like it go to alpha …
I’m perfectly happy mining my EPI in peace.

Walls are fragile as it is  . .

I have to agree with this after experimenting with walls, it is their design and its to fit them.  Playing escape from New York last night was fun.  I will however suggest the weight and the price come down a bit on the bombs, considering it takes 5 million  to take one wall down. 

But I will say, if you enjoyed solo ghanking miners you have to think twice now.  With gate guards + walls + probes your not going to be able to just stroll onto the island and say hi anymore.  You WILL have to carry multiple teleport beacons and you will have to start using the log off method and hope they didn't see where you logged off at or you will come back to a wall encasing you.

I'm glad it was implemented good to see a nic sink in the game, now can i haz Golden Triangle back? wink

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Re: Walls decay over time

Decaying walls. The purpose of this mechanic would be to limit the number of deployed wall tiles, by making it too time consuming to maintain. So, decloaked, this suggestion is purely about limiting the amount of walls a corp can deploy, not about making the wall system better. There is already an existing mechanic to limit the maxium number of wall tiles that can be deployed, which is 21.5% of the 21x21 area. As a practical matter, a lower limit would actually be better, since it would reduce griefing (closing off killing allys) by allowing corps to max an area out easier.

tl;dr- Walls already have a mechanic that limits deployment, decay is about punishing corps for using walls, and trying to return the game to Roam vs. Roam.

21 (edited by Alexandra 2012-02-05 08:08:37)

Re: Walls decay over time

Arga wrote:

Decaying walls. The purpose of this mechanic would be to limit the number of deployed wall tiles, by making it too time consuming to maintain. So, decloaked, this suggestion is purely about limiting the amount of walls a corp can deploy, not about making the wall system better. There is already an existing mechanic to limit the maxium number of wall tiles that can be deployed, which is 21.5% of the 21x21 area. As a practical matter, a lower limit would actually be better, since it would reduce griefing (closing off killing allys) by allowing corps to max an area out easier.

tl;dr- Walls already have a mechanic that limits deployment, decay is about punishing corps for using walls, and trying to return the game to Roam vs. Roam.

It seems that main issue with walls is that they're being layered to block paths. While the devs are correct that you only have to breach a single wall unit doing this can be very hard. I think allowing the entire map of walls to be shown when you teleport to an island would make sense so at least roaming parties could open the map and leave.

In some cases being able to walk as the path would have usually allowed would mean hitting at least 3 layers of walls with 1.1km of a teleporter. 3 walls takes around 9 bombs and not many corps will agree that 22.5 million is worth investing for access to an island.

You can feel the shift already. Beta is being turned into sudo-alpha. The time and effort now required to attack an island with a force that will catch something has been greatly reduced and it's not like many corps wanted to attempt to take outposts before. While walls will help hold an outpost they are discouraging PVP is a already asset glutinous community.

Walls are a nice idea and are fun to use however looking at the past record of flight or fight.. What did the devs honestly expect would happen. "Walls yourself in and mine all the epriton" or "Make mazes to slow down attackers".

Ehh, rant over. I was just starting to get back into PVP but my experience with walls have sent me back to training new players.

TL;DR - Walls should have been for outpost owners and ONLY available from 500m from outpost to 2.5km from outpost.

I AM NOT A GM™

22 (edited by Dan 2012-02-05 13:44:39)

Re: Walls decay over time

Alexandra wrote:

TL;DR - Walls should have been for outpost owners and ONLY available from 500m from outpost to 2.5km from outpost.

Then you'll remove a lot of sand from the sandbox.

@Jelan, I understand that you don't like building stuff etc. but if someone enjoys it why would they be restricted? We, on Kent, weren't forced to build them by "ebil supreme commanders" we wanted to spent time and resources to make Kent as it is now. Instead whining and screaming for a nerf, because you are too lazy or you don't have enough people who are willing to do it for you, get more ppl who are into those kind of things and they'll be MORE than happy to do it for you or ignore the new content and roll how you've been rolling before the patch.

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

23 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2012-02-05 20:03:07)

Re: Walls decay over time

Wow, some of the arguements and accusations of lazyness here is just epic.

What involves more effort here:

A) 1 time spamming of walls, with occasional review for punctures, making it almost impossible for anyone to get beyond immediate entry to an island, with probes at strategic locations that ping everytime a hostile gets near it

B) Constantly having scouts out, or detectors, and a ready defense force to respond to any incusion of hostiles on the island in question, and having to pay attention the whole time you are out doing any activity on beta?

It's astonding that so many who in the past claimed to be pvpers and want to have "good fights" now want to hide behind walls and be totally safe, with no risk, farming and mining on beta.  Another "easy button", and yes it is easy.  It's expensive and takes time, but once that time and expense has been done, it's a simple and and cheap to maintain.

It's a good indication, when people resort to ad hominem attacks and insults to argue their points.  An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument..  It's a pretty good indication that those resorting to it have little or no valid points to add to the arguement.

PS- keep posting in yellow Dan, it suits you, you are defineately "yellow", so concerned to be able to hide behind your maze of walls and not actually have to work to defend your territory.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Walls decay over time

Dan, stop being blinkered and just using you're too lazy arguments, extropolate where walls will go in their current incarnation and maybe you can see the problem.

I have made any accusations of cowardice or whatever at your spamming of the island, I've simply pointed out what will happen if the mechanic isn't changed

Re: Walls decay over time

Jelan wrote:

Dan, stop being blinkered and just using you're too lazy arguments, extropolate where walls will go in their current incarnation and maybe you can see the problem.

I have made any accusations of cowardice or whatever at your spamming of the island, I've simply pointed out what will happen if the mechanic isn't changed

Hm did you two have a falling out?

What happened here?

I'm confused.

+1 to unrestricted Use of walls...I think the restriction of 1000 meters off teles and stations should be REMOVED.

So its fully player driven, and unique.

Just Sayin
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