Topic: 01-11 Patch opinions: Feedback
Changes/adjustments for these main features
1. NPC AI
2. Factory nerfs/buffs
3. SAP visibility
Just to keep it in one place and easy to pop open to see what everyone thinks.
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Changes/adjustments for these main features
1. NPC AI
2. Factory nerfs/buffs
3. SAP visibility
Just to keep it in one place and easy to pop open to see what everyone thinks.
Topic #1
New NPC AI.
Wow, they have a brain. I would like to summarize my new NPC ratting experience since the new patch (Beta mechanics)
Superior observers:
1. They were easy to make self-drain out, shooting randomly until drained-- now they control their accumulator -- GOOD
2. They could get caught in a nook or dead-end and just sit there to be killed--now they have much better path awareness and can adjust -- GOOD
3. They use to just randomly shoot into terrain and foliage without any consideration of a potential hit -- now they only shoot if it is a hit -- MIXED
Even the best pilots miss-judge the terrain and shoot errant shots into items other than their opponent -- fix: degrease the AI a fuzz so that they do, at least from time to time, shoot into an item that you are using for cover.
4. Once aggressed they would “pin” to that spot and engage within that general area -- now they shoot, ecm, and then run off at a good clip (seems like about 52kph). – VERY BAD
If we can’t choose at least where to engage the NPC then there is no reason to even engage them. Their new AI creates too much risk for the little reward that they offer.
Our encounter: One Superior is engaged by a t4 fit ratting Gropho set up to hit at a 570 range. Superior is aggressed but takes off running, firing back when we move from cover to cover. Chased the superior about 6,000 km until he ran through an NPC nest and forced the Gropho to go another route to cut him off, this took another 5,000 km. I called in some other support just to kill the thing. So a Mesmer and another Gropho took to chase. I met up with the Mesmer and pursued the Superior while the other Gropho cut his path from the front. The Superior got to a hill and turned to light up the Mesmer that was in pursuit taking him below ½ armor before the Sup ran over the hill. The engagement ended with one Gropho at 1/3 health, one Mesmer at ½ health and the sup finally dead. Total distance covered from initial engagement about 8,000 km.
Please understand that I agree these should be the hardest things to kill but what we have now is an NPC that will drag an 80 mill ratting bot all over a Beta island (very, very high risk) just to get the same old drops. This is not at all worth the risk. Please return the “pin them where they are aggressed” so we can at least control where they will be engaged. The other AI adjustments are plenty to make them VERY dangerous and almost worth hunting these hunters. Or - Create such a crazy drop from them that 3 guys are willing to form a hunting pack and chase them down. I prefer the first option, pin them where they are initially aggressed.
TL/DR accumulator change good, improved path finding good, LOS shooting mixed, NPC's that run away BAD, and or loot must be adjusted to make it worth doing.
Just a quick response
1. Good.
2. No comment
3. Excellent.
topic #3 SAP changes.
Thank you for listening to players and removing the on island SAP visibility window for anyone to see.
Change: SAP locations are only visible from within 1,000 km of the SAP location.
This distance is not sufficient. When you own a station, you should be able to undock and see all your sap locations. To drop a SAP probe every time to know when your station is at risk of aggression is a bit much. It seems that you are resisting the option to add the next timer to a window for the owners to see. I don't really understand this logic. We can tell the station who can dock. We can tell it to put out island wide bonuses. We can tell it to buff 5 indy options, but it won't tell us when it goes into a vulnerability mode without doing out side of terminal probe drops? Confusing.
I think for the short term, look at the SAP locations of all Beta station, see what distance they are from the undock and adjust the distance of site to those areas based on the farthest one on the map. I would guess 2,500 km viability for all SAP locations, from any bot would be a reasonable distance.
NPC AI is interesting change of events. The 1k M SAP atm is fine imo. need more Titan on Beta.
NPC AI is interesting change of events. The 1k M SAP atm is fine imo. need more Titan on Beta.
Learn to recycle more
need more Titan on Beta.
As usual, a big +1 here.
topic #3
How about a SAP probe that can be purchased and deployed outside of the owners terminal (say 500 km from terminal). It would relay timers and SAP information to the station that would be accessible to the owners?
Make it a probe that can be destroyed. or assaulted and repped back to functioning levels.
1. havent tested yet, but anything that makes the AI better is a good fix. If observers get to OP - consider that regualr npcs just have their robot and equip - and zero extensions, not even the bot bonus.
Observer on the other hand are like maxed out player with t1 fits and some cheats.
perhaps this should be adjusted that observers are like other npcs, but with actual tiered gear *hint* *hint*
2. http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -20120111/
3. sounds good, also the point that its to short for outpost owner is probably a valid one, but im no affected by this, so i leave out the comments to the affected player.
1. Good
2. Don't care about the recycle since last change
3. Good
I guess my question for Takeo -
Did you fit demob?
I know that it was not needed pre-AI boost, but it seems like the new AI is going to require PVE bots to fit more like PVP; that's good as it allows PVP players to actually get PVP type practice on NPC's, but it's probably bad from the PVE'ers view, as it requires ratting bot to give up a tuner and probably put EP into something they wouldn't have had to.
On the other hand, your experience is with as you say, the hardest bot in the game to kill; which in theory should require more EP and extensions posibily to kill then a normal NPC.
I guess my question for Takeo -
Did you fit demob?
I know that it was not needed pre-AI boost, but it seems like the new AI is going to require PVE bots to fit more like PVP; that's good as it allows PVP players to actually get PVP type practice on NPC's, but it's probably bad from the PVE'ers view, as it requires ratting bot to give up a tuner and probably put EP into something they wouldn't have had to.
On the other hand, your experience is with as you say, the hardest bot in the game to kill; which in theory should require more EP and extensions posibily to kill then a normal NPC.
Nope, no demob, but it does bring more light to NPC itself. Is it not here to kill intruders (lore) and if so, why is it running away? If it takes one guy to have ubber tank, run up and take the dps while demobing, and another to, lets say neut it, and another to add DPS, then there is not enough incentive to even engage them as their drops are at best mediocre and not worth the risk to then divide between 3 pilots.
Pin them at aggression (let them be the hunters and aggressors) or increase their drops to make it worth even pursuing them.
Sure, lore wise that makes sense.
But getting kited by an NPC does point to a very good AI
Maybe the SO's are actually being controlled by Devs/GMs and not AI's at all! *put on tinfoil hat*
Sure, lore wise that makes sense.
But getting kited by an NPC does point to a very good AI
Maybe the SO's are actually being controlled by Devs/GMs and not AI's at all! *put on tinfoil hat*
also places tinfoil hat on...
Sure, lore wise that makes sense.
But getting kited by an NPC does point to a very good AI
Maybe the SO's are actually being controlled by Devs/GMs and not AI's at all! *put on tinfoil hat*
i dont believe that, until i hear of the first SO is taking out a destruction SAP
Ville wrote:NPC AI is interesting change of events. The 1k M SAP atm is fine imo. need more Titan on Beta.
Learn to recycle more
The butthurt is strong in this one! Perhaps Jelan can take a new apprentice?
1--NPC AI improving is great. Having to chase an observer all over an island.. not great..
2--Good move on the recycling change. There needs to be a significant difference between beta and alpha
3--SAP visibility-- FANTASTIC! but... I think corp officers and CEO should be able to get timers without having to scan. There needs to be an advantage in the intrusion process for the terminal owner. Tie it to a certain level of stability and give it increased accuracy until it is 100% accurate at 100% stability.
Titan on beta will make CIR come back :trollface:
elric wrote:Ville wrote:NPC AI is interesting change of events. The 1k M SAP atm is fine imo. need more Titan on Beta.
Learn to recycle more
The butthurt is strong in this one! Perhaps Jelan can take a new apprentice?
1--NPC AI improving is great. Having to chase an observer all over an island.. not great..
2--Good move on the recycling change. There needs to be a significant difference between beta and alpha
3--SAP visibility-- FANTASTIC! but... I think corp officers and CEO should be able to get timers without having to scan. There needs to be an advantage in the intrusion process for the terminal owner. Tie it to a certain level of stability and give it increased accuracy until it is 100% accurate at 100% stability.
Truly any corp that makes some income can afford to buy some SAP charges we don't have to know what's going on 100% of the time. 94% is a fair balance
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