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looking at a lot of small ewars trying to kill and neut (like 8) a heavy mech with support?
The armor tank will try to kill a few, but depending on the terrain (so excluding only flat terrain) they will break it down.
The hp to ap ratio with the shielded thingy is better.
Dont they need LOS and range to neut too?
But yes, in any tank situation where you are outnumbered, there is the same issue.
If your tanking (sheild or armor) the other side can cycle attackers in and out of range/LOS maintaining continual pressure on your tank while they break off and regenerate.
So to win with a tank, you have to have BOTH range and terrain advantage, as well as there being an upper limit to the number of bots you can offensively tank.
But that in itself again favors the armor tank. NIETHER tank is acutally going to kill anything if the light bots cycle in and out, but the armor tank can fire the whole time, while the shielded tank would be hard pressed to find any point to drop sheilds to fire.
But you did answer the question, the sheilded tank would be harder to kill because of HP/AP, and you'd need many more than (2) bots to do it. Thanks
shield works well with long and shortrange and speed.
support is fast - just an energytransfer or injector charge and the shielded guy has 250*shieldratio HP back. in worst case that should be about 500 HP per transfer.
RR has by no means a comparable repair rate - especially since resists always have hole that can be exploited by attacker.
advantages of the energy transfer:
- nearly no extension for the supporter necessary, just the fitting requirements -> full effect on target
- no additional equipment required on supporter (head or legslot)
People talk about buffing local tanking and I really don't understand why. The nature of any kind of regenerating tank is if it is effective in say 5 v 1 it will be OP in 2 v 1. I'd think the better answer for really huge tanks would be buffer tanks (For Shield I would mean a Tank that relies on amount of accumulator, not recharge), maybe even with RR support, which may need buffing? The problem I guess is the modules available don't offer enough for a great buffer tank (correct me if I'm wrong pls) and particularly with armour they make you ridiculously slow. Maybe in that way it becomes easier to balance, with local rep / regen tanks having sensible limits, Buffer Tanks being bigger, but of course can be broken by 1 dps eventually, and for the ultimate you combine a local buffer tank with a remote repper?
Disclaimer : I'm a little high on medication atm, so could be all crap 
People talk about buffing local tanking and I really don't understand why. The nature of any kind of regenerating tank is if it is effective in say 5 v 1 it will be OP in 2 v 1. I'd think the better answer for really huge tanks would be buffer tanks (For Shield I would mean a Tank that relies on amount of accumulator, not recharge), maybe even with RR support, which may need buffing? The problem I guess is the modules available don't offer enough for a great buffer tank (correct me if I'm wrong pls) and particularly with armour they make you ridiculously slow. Maybe in that way it becomes easier to balance, with local rep / regen tanks having sensible limits, Buffer Tanks being bigger, but of course can be broken by 1 dps eventually, and for the ultimate you combine a local buffer tank with a remote repper?
Disclaimer : I'm a little high on medication atm, so could be all crap
Why should people be unable to 5v1 straight dps with a entire fit dedicated to active tanking?
Pre-Nerf to tuners a Single bot could completely negate my combat effectiveness and a correctly fit single bot could go as far as to kill me.
I think the real question is: Why should people be able to spam pure dps groups?
Example: my Artemis with 3x uniplate, 1x repair, 3x repairtuning
- 12300 to 22300 effective HP
- thats 2.5 to 4.6 eff. HP per repaired HP
- my own repair is 370 HP repaired HP for 250 AP medium repair or
- 120 HP for 55 AP small repair (both have nearly same cycletime ~6.6s)
that sounds like alot, but i have no place left for injector or AP consuming weapons, so no lasers or any weapon tuning - very close range due to firearms or missiles. 100% Support dependant vs. anything.
The supporting Riveler would have same stats with armor tanking but then also, no place for injector.
Perhaps the complex Engineering outpost aura + repair + accu + locktime nexus would make that defense tank useable.. 
Dazamin wrote:People talk about buffing local tanking and I really don't understand why. The nature of any kind of regenerating tank is if it is effective in say 5 v 1 it will be OP in 2 v 1. I'd think the better answer for really huge tanks would be buffer tanks (For Shield I would mean a Tank that relies on amount of accumulator, not recharge), maybe even with RR support, which may need buffing? The problem I guess is the modules available don't offer enough for a great buffer tank (correct me if I'm wrong pls) and particularly with armour they make you ridiculously slow. Maybe in that way it becomes easier to balance, with local rep / regen tanks having sensible limits, Buffer Tanks being bigger, but of course can be broken by 1 dps eventually, and for the ultimate you combine a local buffer tank with a remote repper?
Disclaimer : I'm a little high on medication atm, so could be all crap
Why should people be unable to 5v1 straight dps with a entire fit dedicated to active tanking?
Pre-Nerf to tuners a Single bot could completely negate my combat effectiveness and a correctly fit single bot could go as far as to kill me.
I think the real question is: Why should people be able to spam pure dps groups?
Maybe they should be able to tank 5 v 1, my point was there has to be an upper limit on active tanking otherwise it becomes really OP at lower levels. Theres also the issue of how many counters there are, if a Tyannos with neuts or something can at least cause you a problem, maybe thats cool. If you HAVE to have an Ictus with you then tbh thats far to limiting imo.
Ppl don't often spam pure DPS groups. they bring tacklers, ECM, Supression, etc and hell usually a troiar or two.
Thing is theres a huge difference between a bot thats extremely hard to kill, loads of HP for example when you're in low DPS stuff, or lots of EWar on you to make it hard to apply dmg, and something thats just straight up impossible to kill because you cannot break the tank with what you have .
the upper limit of tanking could be solved easily with the implementation of AoE weapons that do *** against single targets, but work wonders against groups.
see the chaos group had the number advantage - no matter which one got attacked, another one could support him because he was not under fire, and also lower his shields to fire on the attacker.
Imagine now the attacker would have had AoE weapons - not enough to kill one, but enough dps to supress all.
like Firearms could have that effect that with their huge dispersion, there would be high chance that a missing shot would hit something else. Laser bouncing off targets hitting targets nearby, (EM)Railguns piercing through and hitting more targets in a row....
Longer fights = more PvP = more fun
Fun for the guy with the unbreakable tank sure
Btw, why are energy transferers don't have any electrostatic dispersion? They are the same kind of engineering equipment like drainers and neuts, but convergent electrostatics doesn't affect them.
That means that ight/assault robot can be insta-recharged fully by medium drainers. That means that energy can be transfered without any losses and all, regardless of difference between transferer and robot size.
Thats where it can be balanced IMO.
Fun for the guy with the unbreakable tank sure
No such thing as an unbreakable tank.
It's like the Sasquatch of this thread.
The supporting Riveler would have same stats with armor tanking but then also, no place for injector.
Perhaps the complex Engineering outpost aura + repair + accu + locktime nexus would make that defense tank useable..
supporting Riveler will never fit armor tank, because to provide good support he need a lot of AP so he fit shield and rechargers/injector in legs. Armor bonuses on industrial bots looks like weird DEV humor.
I suggest to rebalance this Problem to remove the Bonus you get From fitting a Large Surface Hit Size Shield on a Bot with Small Surface Hit Size
As explanation: as you might know many many Trojar Pilots Fit Evasive Modules in addition to the Shield they are carrying boosting theyr Absorption Ration by a great Percantage. Of course fitting a Medium Shield on a Small bot has the same effect a massive boost in the lifetime of the Bot under fire.
As logical Explanation how Shields should work.: If a Shield has a Set Surface Size of 8 meters² it shouldnt matter that the bot it is fitted on has only 3,75 meter² surface size. Its not as if the Shield suddenly gets smaller just because it is fitted on a smaller bot.
Why this fix would also rebalance shields on Larger bots. The most dedicated Shield Tanks i have seen so far were using t4 shields and most mechs benefit from this, too.
Just remove this Bonus it gets ridicoulus boni on small bots and unneeded boni on larger bots exspecially if combined with evasive modules.
No nerf to shield tanks is needed, you are all calling for a nerf based on a tournament that has not much to do actual gameplay. Shield tanking is fine in context of the actual game. Shield tanking was already nerfed HARD. I don't think you people understand this. High end shield tanking took a huge nerf several patches ago.
Herpus your idea is flawed: I could just start to fit small shield modules on my mechs and save money. Would no longer be a need / use for medium shields.
1 second cycle times would be a buff all around for my Tyrnaos 
Think it through better next time!
No need to nerf shields.
Herpus your idea is flawed: I could just start to fit small shield modules on my mechs and save money. Would no longer be a need / use for medium shields.
of course the malus for fitting a smaller shield than your bot is should still apply
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