Topic: The even distribution of Resources

This is a thing that bothers me already for a long time:

Why are all resources are so evenly distributed in this small world (ores) AND in equipment?

Trading in this game is restricted to "i can build it cheaper then you, so i can make profit with it". Building it cheaper just means that you have more EP spent in production skills and got access to better facilities.

the item pricing an the lack of demand for anything but ores reflects that pretty well.

The second thing is, that all ores are availiable and free to mine for everyone everywhere (Epriton is a bit harder but its also placed on all beta islands). This cannot be changed due to the fact that even for the simpliest mech fit you need all ores availiable.

This are two reasons for a nearly non-existing market, self sufficent megacorps that dont need to use it and the lack of "territorial warfare" for any other reason but EPEEN.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

2 (edited by Egil 2011-12-11 15:09:54)

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Interesting topic.

How about islands have exclusive minerals as follows:

Hokk and Kent - mineral A
Dom and Nova - mineral B
Alsb and Hoop - mineral C

To build Pelistal bot you need a large amount of mineral C
...and so on

Re: The even distribution of Resources

EVE taught us why this model sucks. Google "moons" and "ice" if you don't have first-hand experience.

Re: The even distribution of Resources

I would predict corps on different island to recruit from one major type of pilots... with some "second grade" members.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Norrdec wrote:

I would predict corps on different island to recruit from one major type of pilots... with some "second grade" members.


Actually, while this would be interesting for the market and could also be an interesting piece of contention to create some tention/political shifts it would ultimately lead to larger alliances as there will be people that don't want to trade onto the market so they will expand their numbers, and by extension, their footprint on the world to trade internally.

I don't think anyone really wants this.

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Egil wrote:

Interesting topic.

How about islands have exclusive minerals as follows:

Hokk and Kent - mineral A
Dom and Nova - mineral B
Alsb and Hoop - mineral C

To build Pelistal bot you need a large amount of mineral C
...and so on

you dont have to go that far.
perpetuum minerals can already be structured this way:

  • "Titan ore" and "Liquizit"  = low grade universal raw ores

  • "HDT",  "Stermonit" and "Imentium" = low grade factional ores

  • "Triandlus" and "Helioptris" = universal low grade plant materials

  • "Epriton" =  universal high grade ore (beta only)

  • "Noralgis" = universal high grade plant plant (Player planted)

These existing matieral should be enough to build ANY of the current Robots, or any T1 or T2 piece of equipment. (= Alpha market)

Whats really missing is a set of faction specific plants or ores that only grow/spawn on each beta island of the corresponding faction.

T3 faction related items (eg. Weapons and faction specific ewar or defense modules) should have a FRACTION of their raw materials replaced with those factional materials.

T4 faction related items would have most of their components replaced with higher grade materials, and would not need ANY of the lower grade universal raws to build.

This would result in demand/offer situtaion, even for mega corps. If you want to avoid it, you would need to spread your alliance all over the perpetuum world - and thus all player living in a peacefull world because you are all in the same alliance... wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Annihilator wrote:

This would result in demand/offer situtaion, even for mega corps. If you want to avoid it, you would need to spread your alliance all over the perpetuum world - and thus all player living in a peacefull world because you are all in the same alliance... wink

Though overall I find this an interesting proposal, you have to admit this is a serious issue. Alliances are already large, and this would create extremely strong incentives for alliances to become even bigger, or discriminate and mostly take players using a certain faction. Though it's good to dream that these corps will trade with each-other, they are unlikely to do so. Of course they might try to ninja-mine a bit, but after a while they'll realise it's easier to just merge the corps.

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Though it's good to dream that these corps will trade with each-other

its as good as dreaming that taxing corp internal market, or showing corp internal item distribution on a public wall would create a better market.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: The even distribution of Resources

I like this all however the way i would do it, is create factional "attributes".

Some form of bonus added to whatever was being made, perhaps per type of item created (such as weapons/ammo, armor/shield, industry mods and other secondary mods.

Keep all the resources as is, but add factional "rares" only found on the related island.  Except ill call them catalysts to reduce confusion.

When creating items one of these catalysts could be added to imbue the item with its effect.


So, for example, anyone wanting to make industrial mods with a faster cycle time mod would need to go to the factional island where that catalyst would drop and farm for it, while farming on another island would produce catylsts that increased output.

Either way i like the idea of giving me a reason to go to another factions island, but i dont like the idea of limiting the most vital materials, especially since you cant do missions when in a diffrent faction without penalty.

This needs to be done to facilitate newer players not in a corp, as those are the people in the game hurting the most and the most needed imo.


Not to get off topic but those not in a corp are treated to a market void of variety and prone to overpricing due to the lack of "need" for the most active individuals in big corps to buy and sell through the market.  Seems they are more or less self sufficiant and that leads to a very inactive market with little variety and even the most simplest items out of price range for anyone remotely new.  Thats the biggest issue i see with the market.

Reducing the location of standard resources is only going to further hurt these players.

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
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Re: The even distribution of Resources

Stranger Danger wrote:

Either way i like the idea of giving me a reason to go to another factions island, but i dont like the idea of limiting the most vital materials, especially since you cant do missions when in a diffrent faction without penalty.

I could be mistaken, but I think they removed penalty on mission/faction crossing.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

11 (edited by Naismith 2011-12-12 12:45:12)

Re: The even distribution of Resources

I would take it into a different direction. Only titan and HDT should be available in abundance on Alpha (meaning big fat red fields). Everything else should be less common (medium yellowish fields) to discourage a playstyle many corps employ (including mine to a degree) of basing on Alpha industry.

It would also give extra incentive to fight to hold your Beta outpost rather then start ninja-hauling everything out once the attacks start coming in. Main problem in Beta is that we got the carrot now in the form of L4 facilities & rich fields & rich NPCs, however the symptom hasn't been cured that rich fields (everything except Epriton) & rich NPC's are still available on Alpha.

At this time any corporation can "log on alpha alts" and stockpile stuff Alpha-side until the attacker gets bored of controlling their outpost, and ninja-capture SAPs in preparation to re-crawl into Beta until the cycle repeats.

EDIT:

Also a good way to stimulate "faction ores" would be to increase the amount of PL-XX that drops from mining those ores on those islands. Perhaps they could implement a PL-YY(100? 150?) that could only be gathered on the faction islands?

Re: The even distribution of Resources

so.... nerf the players that dont want to live on beta or that cant ?

Re: The even distribution of Resources

It's not a nerf, it's an incentive to making the game more busy and less /afk-bot-farming. If I want to fart around Alpha thats my choice, but the game shouldn't be rewarding me equally as it rewards the players that risk getting shot by other players and losing their stuff.

While there are 5-star heavy mech spawns farmable on Alpha, and red nodes of everything but Epriton on Tellesis/Shinjalar/Hershfield, Beta will just be an appendix where players go to get bored out of their minds until they quit.

Can you farm/get as much money in EVE's highsec as you can in lowsec/nullsec? I'm pretty damn sure you can't. That's the trade-off for Concord's protection.

14 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2011-12-12 16:27:26)

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Annihilator wrote:

Though it's good to dream that these corps will trade with each-other

its as good as dreaming that taxing corp internal market, or showing corp internal item distribution on a public wall would create a better market.

Nope. The problem with that issue is that the current system strongly favours the internal markets, rather than at least giving them equal chance. Will the change make the market perfect? Far from, but it will lead to some improvements by creating better incentives. Feel free to contribute more to this discussion in the correct thread.

Back to the actual topic though, as I said I sincerely think this is an interesting proposal, and I do see the interesting dynamics. I simply pointed out a flaw that needs serious consideration, perhaps there's a way to amend to system to prevent super-mega-alliances?

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Mark Zima wrote:

EVE taught us why this model sucks. Google "moons" and "ice" if you don't have first-hand experience.

You *** NAILED IT.

Just Sayin
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16

Re: The even distribution of Resources

I like it smile

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

17 (edited by Smokeyii 2011-12-13 00:51:05)

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Yammosk wrote:

It's not a nerf, it's an incentive to making the game more busy and less /afk-bot-farming. If I want to fart around Alpha thats my choice, but the game shouldn't be rewarding me equally as it rewards the players that risk getting shot by other players and losing their stuff.

While there are 5-star heavy mech spawns farmable on Alpha, and red nodes of everything but Epriton on Tellesis/Shinjalar/Hershfield, Beta will just be an appendix where players go to get bored out of their minds until they quit.

Can you farm/get as much money in EVE's highsec as you can in lowsec/nullsec? I'm pretty damn sure you can't. That's the trade-off for Concord's protection.


I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you on most of your points.

Farming on beta is more rewarding, in all aspects then alpha. There's only 3 spots on all the alpha islands with 5th star heavies on it, and they're usually camped out. There's 5th teir heavy spawns in a short walking distance of most beta outposts. And considering explosions on beta, they're actually easier to farm there. And on top of that you have epriton, which you can mine and sell a portion to pay for all your other ores the alpha guys mined for you. PLUS the outposts there on beta pay more nic for the plasma.

I played Eve for several years, both as a high sec carebear mission runner, and as in a 0.0 space holding major alliance (Razor). As an ordinary pilot, the best way to make money out in 0.0 was doing exploration sites.  When you compared doing anomalies or belt ratting, mission running wasn't that far off for equally skilled/experienced pilots. Considering Perp doesn't have exploration sites similiar I would say the above benefits for being on beta outweight stayin on alpha, in a pure money making sense.

If Alpha was so good, why does anyone at all live on beta?

*edit* Back on topic... This has been discussed numerous times, and while I somewhat like the idea of there being island specific ores, I'm not sure it's a good idea. The main thing that drags about the game is the vast amount of time spent moving from one place to another, and alot of other people I've spoken to have felt the same way. The new freighter would probaly help, but I've a feeling it's going to be even slower then a lithus (meaning longer point A to point B transit times) which is bad.

We either need more highways, or raise the base velocity of every bot by 100%. THEN add more islands.

Re: The even distribution of Resources

If you need to live and mine on beta then just fukken do it, no need to force yourself with alpha nerfs  - there is still enough carebears/small corps who don't want to be on betas at all. Any alpha nerf can simply kill newbies income cuz they will have even lesser to do.

There is simply things you should understand:

- this game isn't about pvp only
- not everyone want to join your corp/alliance
- not everyone want to live on beta right from the start

Back to the topic - AFAIK we already have some kind of resources distribution - IIRC Imentium, Stermonite and HDT spots are bigger on one factional island and lesser on the rest two. Another option that can be added - is the factory/refinery/etc relation bonuses affecting only racial stuff - says, Thelodica facility works better for Thelodica ronots, guns, stuff and resources, and so on.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: The even distribution of Resources

where the hell did i write "nerf alpha" ?

where does a noob build t3-t4 items?
please reread my posts.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Where the hell did I write that its an answer on YOUR post? Here are some OTHER ppl posting and asking to nerf alpha to encourage live on beta.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: The even distribution of Resources

Ah sorry, i should not write from work... it was not directed at you Line, mor on the general mood that this would "nerf alpha" - which it does not. Alpha is the land between beta. This change i am requesting also comes with the request of rearranging the current teleporter routes to create a longer distance between each factions beta2 island.

Line wrote:

Back to the topic - AFAIK we already have some kind of resources distribution - IIRC Imentium, Stermonite and HDT spots are bigger on one factional island and lesser on the rest two. Another option that can be added - is the factory/refinery/etc relation bonuses affecting only racial stuff - says, Thelodica facility works better for Thelodica ronots, guns, stuff and resources, and so on.

i had this also in mind and discussed it with lucius already. This would be an alternative method, but would more of a nerf to alpha, since beta-outpost facilites are up to 2 levels higher then the highest alpha.

The target of this change is "making something easier and cheaper to build in one location of the world that someone demands in another location, while the other guy can offer something that I want"

Communism in real life does never work because of two facts:
1. Humans
2. No Country in the world can be self sufficient and satisfie all needs of their population without trading goods.

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

I simply pointed out a flaw that needs serious consideration, perhaps there's a way to amend to system to prevent super-mega-alliances?

IMHO the simple fact that corps like 62nd or m2s exist in this game, will prevent super alliances.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear