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can i join WAR? lol really good posts from the WAR people. less QQ and more idea and suggestions
I like.
Well, this thread went about as I expected it to go, with CIR and co. crying, and 62nd loving it.
It seems fairly clear that certain people will tire very quickly of walking from one island to another to defend saps, so I see resets coming in the near future... which is a very good thing IMO.
Maybe certain pet corps will push out on their own to take diffrent stations, espically since the auras won't benefit them. There's nothing wrong with being friendly with the people on your island... if there's enough stations to go around.
I do agree that scanning down the time the next sap is going to be active seems a bit counter-productive -- at first glance. What it does allow is for more scheduled pvp, in smaller bits most likely, and of less DO OR DIE importance. Instead of major egos being on the line for a name on a station once every three days, it's more "Whatever you got a sap when we weren't online, hurray for you... you missed the 3 that we got when it WAS online in our timezone" Making it to the magical 50% shouldnt be too hard for any of the current corps out there.
Takeo has some nice ideas, something that can be done by defenders to lower the attrition vs standing around twiddiling your thumbs for an hour.
Also agree specimen saps are lame. When I was with RG, we lost Darmahol twice over the stupid specimen sap. One of the things I liked most about Karapyth when we lived there... it didnt have one 
Takeo's idea of an energy sap sounds excellent to me.
Seems like some people are unwilling to let go of being allied with large amounts of people. Back in Norhoop's early days we were allied for mutal defense and roaming. Up until the addition of F-navy and (previously) S-K, it was one corp in one station, with AXE using Kara, but being mostly based on alpha. JOKE owned Initia, HUN lived in TM-Beta, Chaos owned Uria, and AXE then RG owned karapyth. There were other corps that were around that died out because they didnt have any room to grow. Now, there's plenty of room but some are still attached at the hip. Well, now it's time to decide to strike out on your own, or absolve and be assimilated. Your overlords anxiously await your descision.
TL:DR
Nova crying cause they can't control half the map (in name only, really... they didnt much control anything other then nova until adding Chaos into the fold, and Chaos controlled Norhoop... but perception is an entirely diffrent matter) without alot of time/work.
Well, now it's time to decide to strike out on your own, or absolve and be assimilated.
The second will happen.
There aren't anough activ players for all corps. With just 5 to 10 people from one timezone you don't need to consider a take. You would just lose it over night or when you are at work. Not funny for noone.
As the PR isn't realy great there aren't many realy new players you might recruit.
If you want to be owner of a Beta Outpost there is just the way of merging corps to mega-corps.
But maybe that's the intention of the DEVs 
. To get 3 mega-corps (power blocks) where each controls 2 beta islands.
Well, this thread went about as I expected it to go, with CIR and co. crying, and 62nd loving it.
It seems fairly clear that certain people will tire very quickly of walking from one island to another to defend saps, so I see resets coming in the near future... which is a very good thing IMO.
Maybe certain pet corps will push out on their own to take diffrent stations, espically since the auras won't benefit them. There's nothing wrong with being friendly with the people on your island... if there's enough stations to go
It'll be interesting to see if the devs can keep pushing alliance and blobbing away from the game. Everybody says that game mechanics can't stop human nature. But Intrusion 2.0 is an interesting step towards such mechanics.
Exciting times! Keep up the good work devs!
Yes, the current low population means that the majority of the corporations will only be able to hold one outpost. If you are able to see this objectively, there is nothing wrong with it.
I also feel like some of you think there is stability 100 and nothing else. Stability 100 is not something we intended to be commonplace, if one corporation can reach it, it means they achieved total domination in the area. Which is exactly what Intrusion 2.0 was designed for.
Then maybe a bit more flexibility with the system is needed that relates to 'server population' when server population is low, then things like time between saps being shorter or longer?
It seems like, as you say, you've designed a system which is intended to be the same regardless of population, and indeed is more appropriate for a considerably larger population!
Since anyone with the common sense that god gave a fish can see, Avatar creations appear to be purposefully keeping the population low, or rather, purposefully not trying to increase it (which is the same thing) then why not make the system a but more flexible so that its enjoyable for the current population and increase it as and when population does increase.
Why not, take some numbers on the current biggest corps/alliances and set it so that total domination is possible for that size of organization + 25%.
So that its still difficult for any current organization to achieve total domination of one outpost, but not completely unachievable as you have it now.
As you say, however it works now maybe "intended" but maybe its only "intended" for a high population, unless of course you 'intend' to have a much higher population very soon, which is overly optimistic bordering on delusional.
There are two things I hate the most in sandbox MMOs
(A) Alarm clocking.
(B) Being forced to do something boring for hours at a time.
The current system has somehow managed to combine the worst of both (A) and (B). Here are the reasons why I think it went wrong and some solution suggestions:
(1) People knowing when a SAP becomes active leads to alarm clocking. In my opinion nobody should know well in advance when its going to occur and only the defending corp should be notified when a SAP is about to go online.
Everyone else should have to go to the sap and look at it. The idea is for the intrusion system to track natural activity on the island and not how many friends someone can have turning up on a SAP at 11:30pm.
(2) The defenders should be able to actively shorten the SAP time. Having to sit on a random landmark for a random 2 hours during the day just to indicate that you are active on beta is a *** headache for everyone.
(3) The stability change from each intrusion is a little too high right now. If we are trying to represent activity in the form of outpost stability there is no need to make each individual intrusion quite so significant (i.e. you could go from 80% to 40% in two intrusions).
p.s. I can see why its fun for the small groups of attackers. Last night we got a response of about 6-8 mechs to 3 ewars truning up at a passive hacking sap. We could have probably taken it as well if we sat on the sap instead of chasing the lone defending plated tyranos.
p.p.s. specimen processing just makes me lol every time
4. Destructive SAP - Allow the defender to "rep up the HP” on the SAP. Have it start at about twice the current HP, and allow the defender to double or triple that number with remote reppers.
Quick note: you can already repair the SAP, although not beyond it's max. What you mean (I suppose) is to have double the max and have it start at half?
4. Destructive SAP - Allow the defender to "rep up the HP” on the SAP. Have it start at about twice the current HP, and allow the defender to double or triple that number with remote reppers.
Quick note: you can already repair the SAP, although not beyond it's max. What you mean (I suppose) is to have double the max and have it start at half?
what idiot would in their right mind try to rep the Destruction sap with the laughable amount of HP they have atm lol
Everyone was crying we need to change the Intrusion System.
So DEV´s did and now everyone is complaing about the new Intrusion System.
The intentions of Intrusion 2.0 are not bad as a whole.
Just that it wasn´t thought out to the end and one step to early,
before the neccassary features are implemented, to make it work.
Ignoring to many facts, how gameplay is evolving and only consulting a very few for advice, ignoring
everyone elses concerns. Maybe you should consider a neutral player panel, to consult, prior to planing and implementing game featuers.
The DEV´s say everything works as intendet, holding on to their position of gaining
more PvP and Corp diversity, counteracting "blobbing" by refusing the thought of alliance features.
Which on paper might sound good.
But DEV´s fail to realise, that there will always be
banding up corps, who are persuing similar goals,
in form of alliances.
So please give us the features to play along with that.
A corp at most times, will be up against a ganged up force of corps with identical goals, who decide to attack i.e. to take over an outpost. The defending corp will not stand a chance to defend their outpost with the present mechanic.
Which will make the whole system very unbalanced, favouring the attacking group of corps in every means.
Beta Corps will maybe have "alliance" back up for defense. Again this is very unbalanced. As the participating corps will not have any motivation or benefits what so ever, defending another allied corp outpost. I know that works as the DEV´s intented it to work.
But for all the effort the partipating corps are providing, to defend someone elses outpost, there is only risks and loses. No Outpost benefit, even worse than that, there is high chance, that one is locked out of the outpost, either by take over or if the holding corp CEO´s had a bad day. So why bother and taking the unneccary risk loosing all your valuables, which take up a week of dedicated Lithus trains to evacuate.
The risk beeing able to lose it all within a glance, will prohibit a corp to commit itself living on beta.
Holding one Outpost by yourself is equally just a waste of time, for above reasons, that your corp will always be up against an opposing alliance squad. As their is no mechanic for the defending Corps.
The present Intrusion System would probably work, if we had lots more landmasses and most important, a healthy playerbase. But again, the DEV´s refuse to give feedback on their intentions to promote the game, to gain more players, no matter how often you bump your question, its just being ignored.
At the present the few players left in game, are all stepping on each others toes,
living next to each other. Maybe If we would have bigger landmasses with "beta" island as pvp buffer zones, to gamma pvp landmasses, corps would spread out more and be able to build their little hideout on some deep corner of that island. If you would want to go and attack them, you would need to travel a good amount and probably pass more hostlile grounds.
The way it is now, we hop on an island, grief and hop back to alpha savety.
And prior to any system to work, the DEV´s will finally need to realise, that we need those alliance features. Without them, the attacking band of corps is always in favour and for the defending corps there is no benefis but only risks.
And finaly give us some tools to play with and form in our sandbox, to gain some long term goals and motivation.
TL;DR
Intrusion 2.0 is not bad as a whole.
Its is just implemented one step to early.
First alliance features, than Intrusion 2.0.
There is always an inbalance between the attackers and defenders.
Defenders are at a constant risk to lose all, against a gang of attacking corps.
For participating defending corps, there will be zero benefits only risks.
A dedicated life on beta is impossible, for any holding corp now.
So please DEV´s wake up and realise, we need alliance features.
You can not stop banding corps to alliances, they always will.
Defender side will have no incentives for defending.
The whole system is seriously inbalanced.
(1) People knowing when a SAP becomes active leads to alarm clocking. In my opinion nobody should know well in advance when its going to occur and only the defending corp should be notified when a SAP is about to go online.
Everyone else should have to go to the sap and look at it. The idea is for the intrusion system to track natural activity on the island and not how many friends someone can have turning up on a SAP at 11:30pm.
Great idea.
How about a scan like now, only that it shows you if a sap goes active in the next half hour or so. Maybe we could have cheaper charges with different time increments. But not too long in time since it would defeat it's purpose.
With the amount of saps going active your're bound to find some when roaming. And for a corp to actively hit another corps station this would definately help the defenders.
Can someone with a more strategic mind put some more thought into it please?
I don't want to be on the forums...I just want fun fights.
Let's work together on this people! :-)
i have heard that the intrusion status of any SAP is broadcasted with exact ending time on the whole island for everyone. so to know if theres an intrusion, i just have to log in my arkhe alt that is hidden somewhere on a hill, check, logout and move in the high-speed stealth roam (do i hear light ewar IMBA again?) and harrass outpost owner.
Mo - it sounds like the only real thing you need is Aura-sharing controled like docking rights with standing slider.
my suggestions ontop of other good suggestions here:
- broadcast intrusion status only if in same sector as the outpost (give that sector a meaning)
- broadcast intrusion status to owner corp members inter-island wide, and to allies island wide
- agree - make stability downgrading slower. i wouldnt mind if upgrading does huge steps.
this would reflect the difficulty defending vs. attacking.
sup
One of the *** things is having lvl 1 EVERYTHING in the outpost from the start. WE could get the facilities to level 2 (to be in pair with alpha 2 lol) and decrease the number of upgrade tokens by 4 (or 5? cant be arsed how many types of facilities we have).
Really? How many saps have you defended? How many have you defended against an intruder? How many have you defended against Novaforce? As far as i know, the answer to all those questions is NONE, and i know for a fact that the answers to questions 2 and 3 is NONE. Until you've done that you have absolutely no authority to comment that part or comment that part of gameplay.
Boy this sucks answering from a phone.
Trig, no trolling here but do you see a fallicy in your statement? Excluding the Sap we are losing right now (according to a gut feeling) while no one is on you are correct we haven't defended any yet. But that doesn't mean we were not ready to. Also, is it our fault no one had come? Isn't that something the rest of the server should be doing, coming and taking them? I2.0 allows for both offense or defense. Play both.
Mo - it sounds like the only real thing you need is Aura-sharing controled like docking rights with standing slider.
What I undestand which would be very basic alliance features, could be:
1. pay a fee to initially found an alliance
2. each corp pays a monthly upkeep, for the concerning corp to stay a member
3. alliance members, should be able to use outpost facilities, with all op benefits such as refining/ financial/ buffs etc..this would be determined on a i.e. relation slider
4. implement a security system, so that alliance members can not be logged out by the instance by the op holding corp. Maybe only after kick out of the alliance and a grace period therafter, to evacuate.
Alliance features are already implemented via letting the defender have an hour to defend the sap, and allowing one to scan the exact time. If you're alliance needs a feature to get together an hour ahead, that's kind of silly(well your basic alliance benefits seem the same mobios, but extending them to make it easier for territory control should not be allowed -- the 1 hour defense covers that).
From the ones doing a fair bit of action we're noticing the same "alliance" trying to take much land again ie, nova is trying to take all of norhoop, nova is trying to take all of dom, and novastrov. Yet they are complaining that the system is hard, which rightly so it should be for 3 lands. Do you think it should be easier for a body to go back to 1.0?
One of the real keys or kicker is that, as mongolia jones has said "People dont want to be active in a game anymore" ie they simply want to go play something else while their sand castle sits for eons. No maintenance of their territory, no continued activity or play. They only wish to log in 1 time a week, and then say "We'll we've defended our 8 stations, we win." However now the new system keeps them on their toes, and taxes them for trying to take too many land masses.
The current system is innovative with regards to other mmorpgs. While there are pros and cons to it, we do notice that the defenders do actually have to involve themselves quite often in order to take and maintain a large amount of land. As opposed to other mmorpgs having territory control, where the defender can go lax and not have to maintain their control as much.
Again though I think it's too early to tell. I also think people see 100 as the golden ticker, while the control number should bounce back and forth overall( you should be fighting for your land etc ). An alliance shouldn't be able to take 8 stations in the game, and go on the offensive at the same time as a coherent large group. They should suffer a strain to control 8 stations.
This way newer groups can take stations, and add more diversity to the game.
Mara, not everyone is trying to hold 8 stations, some just 2. Some just 1.
According to the Corp population graph in the December newsletter, Nex, M2S, TOG, F-Navy are some of the biggest corps in the game and outnumber Nova by far. So shouldn't any of these corps easily hold one or 2 stations? Its not the I2.0 mechanics that is preventing this.
Moyar outpost is already at 100 stability, doesn't seem that hard its only been 4 days since I2.0 started. Maybe a little tweaking to give defence something to do and attackers longer times, and harder in order to take the SAP will help.
According to the Corp population graph in the December newsletter, Nex, M2S, TOG, F-Navy are some of the biggest corps in the game and outnumber Nova by far. So shouldn't any of these corps easily hold one or 2 stations? Its not the I2.0 mechanics that is preventing this.
Very heavy euro presence. Very many have left since the i2.0 patch announcement. IMO.
4. Destructive SAP - Allow the defender to "rep up the HP” on the SAP. Have it start at about twice the current HP, and allow the defender to double or triple that number with remote reppers.
Quick note: you can already repair the SAP, although not beyond it's max. What you mean (I suppose) is to have double the max and have it start at half?
Repairing the SAP right now with its minimal HP is counter productive if you have an enemy force applying DPS to it already.
Have it become active with (example) 4,000 HP.
Defenders can add remote armor reps to the site and take it to say 12,000 HP cap.
Use the same idea when you get rid of Specimen SAP and change it to "Energy SAP" -
Energy SAP comes on line containing (example) 800 accumulator -
can be remote energy repped to 24,000 accumulator
To the alliance benefits - NONE, do not add any benefits to grouping corps together. No alliance island bonuses, no alliance ownership, no alliance fees. You want control of that many pilots, have them join your corp.
Alliances lead to part time players benefiting from the work of the alliance instead of having to do the work required for their own bonuses/benefits.
Alliances lead to mega alliances that lead to coalitions, that lead to mind numbing blobs. You want friends, hoof it to their island to help them, or stay on yours and leave them to do the work themselves.
Alliance mechanics added will erode the game to a one or two powerhouse scenario where no smaller entities could ever push out and make a start - this would be a tragic move!
To the alliance benefits - NONE, do not add any benefits to grouping corps together. No alliance island bonuses, no alliance ownership, no alliance fees. You want control of that many pilots, have them join your corp.
Alliances lead to part time players benefiting from the work of the alliance instead of having to do the work required for their own bonuses/benefits.
Alliances lead to mega alliances that lead to coalitions, that lead to mind numbing blobs. You want friends, hoof it to their island to help them, or stay on yours and leave them to do the work themselves.
Alliance mechanics added will erode the game to a one or two powerhouse scenario where no smaller entities could ever push out and make a start - this would be a tragic move!
Yes, like all this.
It all comes to how many players (new and old) will stay for this type of gameplay for long. Are there enough players who would welcome this to make a large playerbase? Are old players just going to burn out and leave and find it too tedious to just start over after a break? If so, are new players going to keep coming to replace the old? Even if you try to prevent alliance players can look for way around it , if possible.
PS:Sometimes what the majority of players want is more important, not what the DEVs think its best, after all we need numbers and this is also a business.
PS:Sometimes what the majority of players want is more important, not what the DEVs think its best, after all we need numbers and this is also a business.
Quoted for truth.
I believe the system is perfect as it is, after all the devs gave us what we wanted. I'm particularly fond of the 1 hour waiting times that let you bond with other corp members huddled around the SAPs, the awesome SAP schedules that are so well balanced with current population count, or the destruction SAP that blows up when an assault sneezes at it.
After all the devs know how the game should be played, and its mostly all of us who want to actually build stuff in beta the ones that are playing wrong, paraphrasing Dev Zoom.
I think there is enough players out there that don't want blobs. I'm even going to be bold and say that most don't want blobs.
This is not the problem. The problem is that in human nature we always seek out the path of least resistence. In easy translation...we are lazy.
That is EXACTLY why game mechanics like in Intrusion 2.0 are so important. If we can't kill the blob, we can at least try and strangle it as much as possible.
I'm not saying that 2.0 is perfect as it stands. Tedious mechanics should of course be avoided. Let's just play a bit more before we start polishing it.
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