101 (edited by Hug 2010-11-30 11:55:38)

Re: My concern for the game

didn't read everything to be honest but basically it's down to this if you ask me..

eve has empire space for pvers..less profit there but you are safe.
0.0 is for pvpers and pvers that like to take more risk for more reward.

so that said in eve no matter if you live in empire, low sec or 0.0 you very much get to know which big conflict is going on where and it influences most aspects of the game.

so no matter what playstyle you chose you are involved or at least part of the (mostly) conflicts and pvp happening which makes the game world appealing to pvp and pvers alike - if a war is big enough you will even get involved if you are just a jita trader (eco pvp *yay).

exactly this is what makes eve successfull if you ask me and perpetuum has a similar approach as far as i can tell.
in wow or all those other themepark "cheeseburger" games (good comparison btw tongue) i don't really care what another server is up to, if someone does a first kill (which is bascially also pvepvp ^^) as this is meaningless to me - not so for the wow player and that's the difference, when i go and conquer an outpost with my alliance in perpetuum it's ours and not just a little note somewhere that we were there first. pvers taking a little risk will follow, others will stay safe..a place for every type.

this all will never work if you make it pve heaven everywhere as some want in here and wow up a game...yes PvE players commonly make up more of the sub base, so in eve, but they are there for that long period of time because of the conflict and therefor pvp happening around them which makes them feel to be part of the bigger picture and even a lot of pvers like to have more risk sometimes.

these kind of games don't attract the wow like pvers and therefor you also have a pve niche here and shouldn't mess up what is right.

102 (edited by Jerokane 2010-11-30 12:14:59)

Re: My concern for the game

Hug wrote:

didn't read everything to be honest but basically it's down to this if you ask me..

eve has empire space for pvers..less profit there but you are safe.
0.0 is for pvpers and pvers that like to take more risk for more reward.

so that said in eve no matter if you live in empire, low sec or 0.0 you very much get to know which big conflict is going on where and it influences most aspects of the game.

so no matter what playstyle you chose you are involved or at least part of the (mostly) conflicts and pvp happening which makes the game world appealing to pvp and pvers alike - if a war is big enough you will even get involved if you are just a jita trader (eco pvp *yay).

exactly this is what makes eve successfull if you ask me and perpetuum has a similar approach as far as i can tell.
in wow or all those other themepark "cheeseburger" games (good comparison btw tongue) i don't really care what another server is up to, if someone does a first kill (which is bascially also pvepvp ^^) as this is meaningless to me - not so for the wow player and that's the difference, when i go and conquer an outpost with my alliance in perpetuum it's ours and not just a little note somewhere that we were there first. pvers taking a little risk will follow, others will stay safe..a place for every type.

this all will never work if you make it pve heaven everywhere as some want in here and wow up a game...yes PvE players commonly make up more of the sub base, so in eve, but they are there for that long period of time because of the conflict and therefor pvp happening around them which makes them feel to be part of the bigger picture and even a lot of pvers like to have more risk sometimes.

these kind of games don't attract the wow like pvers and therefor you also have a pve niche here and shouldn't mess up what is right.

I agree with you. Keep the Beta Isles as is. Nothing wrong with those.

What they need to do instead, is create more engaging story driven PVE content to draw in the PVE crowd and give them something interesting to do.

They have a great Lore / Back ground story.  Let them put that to use. Make the Factional Conflict show.

Endless repeatable "unimmersive storyless" missions (like EVE Online was at launch) is going to turn off PVE players and chase them away out of boredom.

So they have to come up with more creative story driven PVE missions. Wich give better rewards (depending on time and difficulty). Like EVE started doing since several years ago and is greatly expanding on.

As face it! Without the PVE crowd, enjoying themselves in great immersive, engaging PVE content. And mine and craft expensive bots and parts to sell in the process.

You PVP'ers will have nothing to buy and blow up. You will be driving around in "noob" bots for eternity.

103

Re: My concern for the game

Jerokane wrote:

I agree with you. Keep the Beta Isles as is. Nothing wrong with those.

What they need to do instead, is create more engaging story driven PVE content to draw in the PVE crowd and give them something interesting to do.

They have a great Lore / Back ground story.  Let them put that to use. Make the Factional Conflict show.

Endless repeatable "unimmersive storyless" missions (like EVE Online was at launch) is going to turn off PVE players and chase them away out of boredom.

So they have to come up with more creative story driven PVE missions. Wich give better rewards (depending on time and difficulty). Like EVE started doing since several years ago and is greatly expanding on.

As face it! Without the PVE crowd, enjoying themselves in great immersive, engaging PVE content. And mine and craft expensive bots and parts to sell in the process.

You PVP'ers will have nothing to buy and blow up. You will be driving around in "noob" bots for eternity.

sure we need more diverse and challenging pve along the road...no idea if there anything already besides the missions and roaming mobs getting tougher smile

i am all for more pve stuff tho a game like perpetuum or eve back then can go with simplified pve for a while to start from - just not forever smile hopefully we will see stuff like complexes ala eve, those epic mission arcs you can scan for (tho i never really did those *g*), maybe also some sort of scanning for stuff like entrances to hidden complexes...a lot our beloved devs can do and i am quite sure they perfectly know that also pve is important along the road.

but besides that it would be wrong to make pve in safe areas as profitable as in beta islands. i think there is tons of pvers around that also want to kinda feel the risk of full loot pve in an pvp enviroment, guarded by or within an alliance where pvpers and pvers complement each other smile
staying true to that formula basically attracts all types this niche may attract, you just need to keep true to it i guess.

Re: My concern for the game

Dr Hari Seldon wrote:
Cons wrote:

Not to turn this into a PvE vs PvP thread, because thats not its intent. But, the OP has several good points.

Although, I strongly disgaree with her assertion that 99% of the gaming population is PVE  and <1% is pvp. The fact is, 99% of the population is like me and is somewhere in the middle. People want both. That said, the OP is right about it in general because PvP is nice but a VAST majority of people spend their time doing MOSTLY PvE.

EVE has always been a sucessful game. But the populations didnt skyrocket until more recently when the added PvE content was implemented.

Unfortunately, PvP'ers tend to be most vocal in forums. They are a very vocal minority.

This IS a PVP vs. PVE thread, masquerading as "concern for the game".  The PVE content in EVE is still mostly garbage.  Even in High Sec, War Decs are where the game is.  Without PVP, there would be no player drama, and player drama is what makes EVE fun.

Perhaps to you, this is true. But others have different perceptions of what fun is.  Personally, I can't think of anything thats "fun" about the typical PvP gank fest. In gank fest games, one has to be looking over ones shoulder all of the damn time.

While that may add "spice" to some peoples life, I'm not one who considers that to be a positive.  I play games to unwind and relax, not to add additional stress. 

I suspect that the Dev's have not considered the economic implications of some of their PvP fans remarks and attitudes, on this and other forums.  Because of those, I had completely written this game off.  I suspect thats true with many other CareBears as well.

EVE has demonstrated that a game can be PvP centric and still attract more than its share of CareBears(and their money...).  I see that potential in Perpetuum if the Dev's wish to pursue such a course.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

Re: My concern for the game

1) Why is this still being debated?
2) It hasn't been out more than a week. Lets see what kind of content they add in the future.
3) I think they should iron out existing issues before worrying about content.

-Gallowglass-
I've played just about everything once. Now it's Perpetuum's turn.

106 (edited by BigCountry 2010-11-30 16:19:22)

Re: My concern for the game

Soumya Sivan wrote:

Could someone please tell us, for the love of all that is holy, good, and sensible, what it costs to run a set-up like Perpetuum Online? Discount the developer's salaries and make an approximate guess of monthly costs, based on actual experience of running and paying for servers on your part. It would be truly enlightening for a person like me, who has never seen such facts stated in any of these threads before.

Their server cluster is small atm, and I am assuming all the hardware (servers) is/are paid for.

So their cost to run atm is bandwidth and electricity at the hosting facility, HQ commodities and salary (payroll). These guys wrote their own 3D engine (I think), so there is no leasing/paying someone else when it comes to that. That's key.

Their dev team is small and all oversea (Hungarian (Indian)). They are based out of Budapest. So you can stretch 9k US Dollars a LOT further there, than here in the states. Here in the states you could only afford 2 software engineers at 9k a month, and that's pushing it....then your minus artists/animators, etc. hehe

Here I will put it into perspective:

Tuesday, November 30, 2010

1 US Dollar = 214.369 Hungarian Forint
1 Hungarian Forint (HUF) = 0.004665 US Dollar (USD)

So I am certain they are on par with what was planned in the business model.
big_smile

What's most important to note is their core code assemblies are working, and working well. The game runs good. I am sure they have editors to load in new content, so adding new content should not be too difficult and very cost affective.

I am very impressed so far. This has been a very good launch for an indy company. Especially launching a mmorpg - the hardest game to manufacture along with one of the hardest industries to compete in. These guys knew what they wanted, most importantly understood what they wanted, and they rolled it out quite well.
big_smile

[img]http://www.cryptostudios.com/PO/Sigs/BC.jpg[/img]

Re: My concern for the game

hey guys how many people run the market in EVE? Who are they mostly? Right, they are carebears as you call them. Most of traders in EVE don't do PvP. Most of the money, I mean HARD money is streaming through the market based on carebear trades. They run traderoutes. Big PvP corporations they just all boil in their own pots, there is almost no money movement. They mine and create their own, people who make money are actually carebears and gold farmers.

At this point PO has almost no tolerance to people who prefer to run trade missions or develop things and sell them on market. In EVE at least you can run traderoutes, run the tool to compare where the prices are better. This may imporve in time in PO but there are no such tools. I mean people who just want to trade and build to make money, lets say pure traders who train as politicians - there is next to nothing for them to do. Game is VERY small at this point for anything like that.

Re: My concern for the game

Chief Ubenor wrote:

hey guys how many people run the market in EVE? Who are they mostly? Right, they are carebears as you call them. Most of traders in EVE don't do PvP. Most of the money, I mean HARD money is streaming through the market based on carebear trades. They run traderoutes. Big PvP corporations they just all boil in their own pots, there is almost no money movement. They mine and create their own, people who make money are actually carebears and gold farmers.

At this point PO has almost no tolerance to people who prefer to run trade missions or develop things and sell them on market. In EVE at least you can run traderoutes, run the tool to compare where the prices are better. This may imporve in time in PO but there are no such tools. I mean people who just want to trade and build to make money, lets say pure traders who train as politicians - there is next to nothing for them to do. Game is VERY small at this point for anything like that.

Are you kidding me? There is a full industrial/marketing side to PO. You can completely manipulate markets right now if your smart enough to take advantage.

The only *** any indy/marketing player could have is having to go to beta islands for like 2 (TWO YES TWO) types of ore that are not found on the alpha islands. In those cases they had better have friends and or money to hire some friends.

In EvE where is the valuable ore located? O that's right, were PvP is prevalent. There is nothing limiting so-called 'carebears' from progressing in this game either through PvE missions or through mining/manufacturing or as a straight markets player.

All of the current content will be expanded upon and enhanced for all the different styles of MMO play.

There is no reason for this thread to exist less than a week after the games launch.

-Gallowglass-
I've played just about everything once. Now it's Perpetuum's turn.

Re: My concern for the game

serenekaos wrote:
Chief Ubenor wrote:

hey guys how many people run the market in EVE? Who are they mostly? Right, they are carebears as you call them. Most of traders in EVE don't do PvP. Most of the money, I mean HARD money is streaming through the market based on carebear trades. They run traderoutes. Big PvP corporations they just all boil in their own pots, there is almost no money movement. They mine and create their own, people who make money are actually carebears and gold farmers.

At this point PO has almost no tolerance to people who prefer to run trade missions or develop things and sell them on market. In EVE at least you can run traderoutes, run the tool to compare where the prices are better. This may imporve in time in PO but there are no such tools. I mean people who just want to trade and build to make money, lets say pure traders who train as politicians - there is next to nothing for them to do. Game is VERY small at this point for anything like that.

Are you kidding me? There is a full industrial/marketing side to PO. You can completely manipulate markets right now if your smart enough to take advantage.

The only *** any indy/marketing player could have is having to go to beta islands for like 2 (TWO YES TWO) types of ore that are not found on the alpha islands. In those cases they had better have friends and or money to hire some friends.

In EvE where is the valuable ore located? O that's right, were PvP is prevalent. There is nothing limiting so-called 'carebears' from progressing in this game either through PvE missions or through mining/manufacturing or as a straight markets player.

All of the current content will be expanded upon and enhanced for all the different styles of MMO play.

There is no reason for this thread to exist less than a week after the games launch.

When has that ever stopped anything? big_smile It will take another month or two for the market to really get going. At this point just about everything is over priced(what little there is of it thats even available).  So far, the launch has gone rather well. I was in at launch with Anarchy Online(double face palm). That had to have been one of the worst launches in MMO history.  Lets see what happens as we move forward.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

Re: My concern for the game

Wraithbane wrote:

It will take another month or two for the market to really get going.

/this

[img]http://www.cryptostudios.com/PO/Sigs/BC.jpg[/img]

Re: My concern for the game

Things to remember about me.

I am a pvper all the way. I don't gank people though unless you are a declared enemy. I run two accounts one Full Combat spec and one Indy. When there are not pvp ops I mine and build bots. When there are PvP ops I am there. I'm not concerned about losing a bot here and there. I can afford it

I DO NOT WANT ANY CHANGES TO THE GAME MECHANICS THEY WORK.

I will admit I am selfish. I want this game to be around in 5 years from now. For this to happen I believe the game needs good solid subscribers and I believe those subs will come from PvEers. I think this game has about 2-3 months to make an impression on the PvE community before their attention continues to wonder around to other games. I want this game to have a solid base of pev subs so the DEVS can afford to keep working this game and expanding it. Regardless of how small the budget has been to date they have to be reaching the end of the shoestrings ....the point at which they decide to drive on or throw in the towel...... a man gets tired of eating beanie weenies ya know.

This game is perfect for mixing PvE and PvP but my opinion is they need to give more room to the PvE environment so the PvE types have more room to stretch their legs that's all i am saying.

MORE SPACE NOTHING MORE.

Re: My concern for the game

If you paid any attention to the forums you'd know they'll add more space as soon as they get more subs... it's been answered multiple times.  You of all people should know that [insert idiotic statistical figure here] of questions can be answered using the search function & incorporating that with common sense.

113 (edited by Lucid Con 2010-12-02 17:48:18)

Re: My concern for the game

I firmly believe despite the misconception that Eve is primarily a hardcore pvp game - it is actually a very carebear friendly game that has the option to be pvp oriented if you so desire. It is however extremely focused on the "carebear" (hate the term) /industry gameplay. Without it you would have no game, no substance, no reason or necessity to pvp. Eve did a good job in balancing the two areas.

So all you hardcore pvpers out there that bash carebears - you wouldn't have an economy or reason to pvp without them. You need the sheep. Think...

This thread is going no where and it has become a place for pvpers to flex their epeen power. Both gameplay types are legitimate and one without the other is futile - ying yang folks. So just let this discussion die already.

Re: My concern for the game

Lucid Con wrote:

I firmly believe despite the misconception that Eve is primarily a hardcore pvp game - it is actually a very carebear friendly game that has the option to be pvp oriented if you so desire. It is however extremely focused on the "carebear" (hate the term) /industry gameplay. Without it you would have no game, no substance, no reason or necessity to pvp. Eve did a good job in balancing the two areas.

So all you hardcore pvpers out there that bash carebears - you wouldn't have an economy or reason to pvp without them. You need the sheep. Think...

This thread is going no where and it has become a place for pvpers to flex their epeen power. Both gameplay types are legitimate and one without the other is futile - ying yang folks. So just let this discussion die already.

No no. You are so wrong. All these hardcore PVP'ers want us all gone! Don't you understand.

They just want to flex in their starter bots on the Beta Isles. For like forever.

115 (edited by CenDre 2010-12-03 03:58:55)

Re: My concern for the game

Lucid Con wrote:

This thread is going no where and it has become a place for pvpers to flex their epeen power. Both gameplay types are legitimate and one without the other is futile - ying yang folks. So just let this discussion die already.

CareBears shall hence for be refered to as PvEers(by me atleast).

This thread is also an outlet for PvEers to express the opinions they have on the mater and from my view so far they have done a much better job than those who think they are hardcore pvpers(who to my exp are hiding in terminals when we bring it to them.

Re: My concern for the game

Some horribly long responses about how stuff should fit into a game. hmm

117

Re: My concern for the game

Pvpers and industrialists have a symbiotic relationship, this is a pvp game in every aspect whether that be shooting each other, undercutting your rl competitor or politicking, the only thing IMHO that isn't pvp is missions. So basically it has it all already and can only get better

Re: My concern for the game

Jelan wrote:

Pvpers and industrialists have a symbiotic relationship, this is a pvp game in every aspect whether that be shooting each other, undercutting your rl competitor or politicking, the only thing IMHO that isn't pvp is missions. So basically it has it all already and can only get better


I agree and with the DEVs being so involved I know it will happen.

119 (edited by Weapon X 2010-12-03 08:26:05)

Re: My concern for the game

Not really necessary atm.

More pve content on alphas would be nice at some point but I don't think theres any real issue atm. Except perhaps the first few easy spawns. Those should really only be worthwhile for new players. Seeing experienced players in decked out lights or even assaults at these spawns farming it to death and denying  the new guys isn't a good thing.

That indicates a problem with the scaling of the spawns. I feel there should be perhaps an area between light and assault pve difficulty to get the experienced guys away from these starter spawns. So far we have only seen changes to tagging and such which don't fix the real issue. That being profitability of farming the light newbie spawns compared to the next lvl being assaults etc. That means having something worthwhile to farm in a light bot if ur experienced but not as difficult as an assault spawn.

Expanding the game world won't fix that either. Only delaying the problem from reoccurring until theres more players.

There is also the problem with mission assignments (combat) that aren't worth taking unless u really wanna grind rep. I think for the missions further away from the terminal the kill requirement could at least be doubled as well as the reward, to balance out the time taken to get there and back.

stEVE did this quite well with the same travel time (warping) to making the more difficult missions longer and more rewarding.
Mission grinding is grossly inefficient compared to ratting in this game..

Re: My concern for the game

serenekaos wrote:

Where exactly are you seeing such a concentration of players? Because outside of the 'starter' terminals......the islands are ghost lands.


god your just some idiot PVE player who wants easy mode on the game hush already get some friends join a corp and do something...

and I find it funny how u think that MMO's only live from PVE players you are a joke do your homework research... some of the greatest MMO's were about pvp.

carebear tears I thought I left this behind when I quit WoW 3 years ago.. I guess the cry babys who want easy solo mode are already back in this new game.

this game is fine as is, you can either accept it MR 10 YEAR EXP IN PLAYING GAMES.. rofl get a life I have played MMO's and games ingeneral for a hell of alot longer then you kid learn your place and shut up.

Re: My concern for the game

Justin420 wrote:
serenekaos wrote:

Where exactly are you seeing such a concentration of players? Because outside of the 'starter' terminals......the islands are ghost lands.


god your just some idiot PVE player who wants easy mode on the game hush already get some friends join a corp and do something...

and I find it funny how u think that MMO's only live from PVE players you are a joke do your homework research... some of the greatest MMO's were about pvp.

carebear tears I thought I left this behind when I quit WoW 3 years ago.. I guess the cry babys who want easy solo mode are already back in this new game.

this game is fine as is, you can either accept it MR 10 YEAR EXP IN PLAYING GAMES.. rofl get a life I have played MMO's and games ingeneral for a hell of alot longer then you kid learn your place and shut up.

"Greatest"? In terms of what? Certainly not in terms of economic success. Its been demonstrated time after time, after time, that FFA gankfests(so beloved of some PvP types) are at most a niche game in the western markets.  I'd hate to see Perpetuum niche itself that badly.  EVE has a good balance in that regard, and CCP has made a great deal of money as a result.

The rest is pretty much just trolling.  I'll bet the Dev's REALLY wish they had even 10% of the subscriber base WoW has... wink

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

122 (edited by Smackdown 2010-12-07 22:06:47)

Re: My concern for the game

No matter what your stance is on this issue, You have to treat this like it were in nature.

I know this sounds corny, but it still applies.

The term here is Predation, specifically Population Dynamics.

In nature, if the predators have full unchecked access to their prey, the predators will cause their prey to go either go extinct or move on. Then the predators will die off as their food supply dwindles.

On the other hand, if the prey goes unchecked, they will overpopulate and ruin the environment. (Sounds like WoW)

If the Devs cannot find a way to achieve natural state of balance in the game's environment. Then, at best, PO become known as a "PVP Niche game"

PVEers don't need individual safety, they need "collective" saftey. Individuals can still become prey, as long as the group as a whole survives.

The smart fast ones survive by leveraging themselves off the slow dumb ones. LOL

I am a troubleshooter.
I go out and find trouble......then I shoot it.

Re: My concern for the game

Am I reading forumfall again?

Gah I thought I ditched that nasty habit..

Re: My concern for the game

How about Damage Over Time for people who spend more than an hour per week on alpha island soil

Re: My concern for the game

An interesting perspective Smackdown.

I'm a PVPer, though I'd prefer PVErs and everyone else be happy as well. Expand the PVE by all means, just don't do it at the expense of PVP.

On the alpha islands, almost all PVE seems to be single player. I think sometimes players forget the whole point of an MMO.