Anyhow, I'll still listen to your concern, and I'll try to make a colleague in DTF produce some key t2 stuff for the market.

It's too bad the way the game is currently designed closed markets tend to be better for "your corp" than open markets. Assuming you can build the majority of stuff you need in your corp.

With the current design I dont think there will ever be a huge open market without either some changes to player thinking, or game mechanics.

corp internal market is simply a convenience tool that has absolutely nothing to do with the population size.

before it was implemented, you did it with complicated limited corp storage access and nearly no control.
Corp theft and other negative things have been a common thing.

Its the same as with alliances - some guys say the game should not provide any interface for alliances because of the population size - but still you have them ingame since day 1 (again using inapprotiate interface: squad + chatchannels)

There are two types of prototypers:

i) Corp-prototypers: These have been lucky enough to be fed almost all the kernels from corporation. Hence, it's mainly the corporation deciding if this research should be shared. Will they? Well, as we've seen in game so far, they're really not keen on this as it means sharing research with enemies, who might still lack certain things. And the 10x be a fairly small  margin in for top-prototypers. Why would a corp share their research for making 10M? Unless you offer super-high margins they really have no incentive to share this. If they want 10M, the corp can just produce some of the items and sell on market, that way they can more easily regulate the supply. If a corp wants to make a profit out of their research, they'd be much better of producing items and selling.

ii) Independent-prototypers: These guys have actually paid for their research, and they know that if they sell a prototype to another producer, that will drive down the price of the module, and eat into the market share. Hence they would only be willing to sell at very high amounts.

In conclusion, selling prototypes at 10x cost in market window (note that this is at best a 100% margin with top skills, personally my prototype multiplier is 6x) is plain stupid at this point. Business-wise it makes far more sense to just sell the modules. Doing what you suggest would mean the person would be far better off mass producing bots and T1 mods.

Further, I am always surprised by the fact that people always complain about T4 margins, but most T4 margins are the same or very close to the margins in a lot of T1/Bots (completely excluding the fact that T4 requires billions in investments).

Of course it can happen, just like charity. And yes, probably easy to say you'd offer it now, but come back after you've spent many billion in kernels.

Best chance of this happening is if a prototyper leaves a corp. Which essentially is like someone winning the lottery and then feel he can be nice and give away 50% of his billions. But then, it's not difficult being charitable if you never had to put in any work for it.

An another note, if research was the only thing hindering a flourishing market, how come margins in t1/bots are so high as well? Because people sell to make NIC...

If you want be nice and support the market, there's no need to start complaining about people not sharing research, you can just produce and sell t1/bots on market at cost.

Most likely the margins are driven by the people who produce the t1 stuff to put on the market. Your margins may be drastically diffrent then the next persons, who may not have as high of a relation, or as many EP in production. Their Cost is higher, but they may be the only ones producing for the market. Then along comes someone with much lower costs that undercuts, but not by much... because they can.

Research isn't the ONLY thing hindering, but it is hindering it, considering you can count on 1 hand the amount of independent production people who produce specifically for the market, in the case of T4. But that is only one bottleneck. Would you willingly take a 15-20% cut on your margins for a 10-15% increase in sales? More production also increases the demand of materials. The increase demand for materials gets more people mining which in turn depletes some spots, which in turn causes people to move further out, move to diffrent islands (including beta).

I'm not saying this to any specific person, you included. I'm also not complaining about people not sharing their research. I know that you and others have spent considerable time and effort to aquire the kernels, and I'm not trying to cheapen your acomplishments either. This isnt a sure-fire bullet cure-all to the problem, but having someone, anyone on the server willing to provide prototypes for t3/t4 at reasonable costs would sure go a long way to stimulate the market.

Played eve for more or less 7 years now, so yes I know, but in eve one guy effected the market is another question.. possible yes, but deffo not that easy to manage

I hope I can manage to actually affect both the market and the pvp, it would be a fantastic thing to use for when I do my masters

I always play the longterm game, don't expect to see me everywhere in a few days

I am sadly not too familiar with the history of this game yet, however I read and remember everything I ever come across, if you want to throw some links/summaries my way, I'd be very grateful

Open market does not really work like it should because every corp can become self-sufficient the moment they move to ANY beta island and join the local alliance.

they don't need anything out of the territory of their enemies, so theres also no real reason to fight or trade.
they don't even need to trade the non-beta mineral "titan ore" because they can mine it themselfs in safety of the syndicate protection.

The only guys that need to use the market are the solo-player, the alpha dweller that want to get epriton or, the ones who want kernels without need for mindless grinding spots on islands they don't have PvP protection.

read the blogposts, there are not so many of them

Lucius has awesome prices, I am not complaining about anything

I don't think anyone is complaining about t4 margins, at least not recently. I think everyone knows that t4 is expensive to make, and therefore expensive to buy.

Well, I didn't realize that I was complaining. Maybe I do so much of it that anything I say is construed to look like im complaining, but I was more or less debating why the market is the way it is, and rehashing statements I've previously made concerning corps and their internal markets being somewhat of a hinderance to a game built around a market, espically with such a small populations.

Then again, all your problems with not having anything to buy are solved the moment you join one of the afore mentioned corps.

Unfortunately this game will not be able to provide you with a great deal of information for your research except at how a poorly seeded market can hamper a game severely.  You will have zero effect on PvP; that is almost entirely internalized.  Very few PvP folks would expect to be competitive with what little they can find on the open market.

As stated before; limited visibility of items due to corp limited listings, throttle market growth.

Sure, there's in-corp sales in Eve, but the market itself is transparent; there is no way to limit sales to corp members only.  So in-corp stuff has considerably less effect on the overall market, even when the game first launched.

Yes, it's not the price point that people complain about (much), it's the fact that they simply cannot find anything.  Even many standard items are not seeded, much less t2/t3, and when they look at t4 most younger players simply choke...  It's like a nuublet in Eve flying his first frigate, that cost 450k, being confronted with T2 guns before invention.  A single T2 small gun could cost more than 4 frigates.  Even after invention a full kitout for a new player can be expensive.
BUT the nuublet can always open the market and 95% of the time find exactly what they're looking for somewhere in the region... and 100% in Jita.