Topic: Neutraliser overpowered?

Writing into Hunters topics i came to realise:

Neuts are overpowered, and pelistal mechs are overpowered because they can use them without restrictions:

- no chance to hit calculation, just dispersion vs. hitsize (like missile damage)
- Neuts are best against ERP tanks
- neuts are best against suicide bots
- neuts are best against shield tanks
- neuts are best against ECM user
- neuts are best against anything that needs AP to use
- neuts are even usefull against npcs now.

Training energywarfare and pelistal faction seems to be the best way in game.

you go out in your ultra-fast lock shield tanked neuting gropho/tyrannos and either tank or neut down anything that comes into your way

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Maybe, but since you can't fit lasers on the gropho, it's still imba... *Oh.. I trolled! big_smile *

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Didn’t the Dev’s JUST (few months back) add skills for Neutralizers , Drainers, and Engineering distance  because they were not useful and needed to be balanced with other e-war types? Now they are over powered ? 

Is it just neuts or drainers as well ?  all green mechs over powered ? Are you being serious ? I cant tell. Seems like a joke to me.

All Mechs are able to use them so really any yellow, green or blue bot can use them, because as I recall the only Mech that has bonus to them is the e-war Pelistal  robots the ictus and troiar. So take away Neut bonus and what bonus do you give the green e-war ? RR? ECM? Supression? RSA? Jacking off?

There is very few bots that can sustain using Neuts for more than 60 to 90 seconds (even with injector) without burning out all their Acc (remember your being shot at as well and your shield takes away your acc)

Being a Green Neutralizing Mech is like playing Russian Roulette “ some ones gonna die just hope they do before its you” because once your acc is gone which it will be in the case of Neuts your dead. No Accumulator to shield you.

In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone.
~Bill Gates~

4 (edited by Sundial 2011-10-18 02:52:48)

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Neut != instant lockdown. It takes time to drain accumulator down. Id Like to see an Ictus drain a Seth 100%, it would probobly take over a minute.

"- neuts are best against anything that needs AP to use"

It would be better to ECM + Suppress a Seth instead of taking a minute to drain it, just 1 example.

Also, Pelistal mechs need to run energy injectors to be cap stable with more than 1 neut, so that energy argument is invalid. We sacrifice high DPS to not use accumulator, so using it for neuting is simply not wasting it.

Also, do you know how hard it is to fit medium neuts on a Tyranos? We are already reactor starved. Try fitting even one medium neut with an injector/shield... good luck. Neuting also lowers the ammount of energy we have available to our shield systems, if you are taking heavy fire, neuting is NOT a good idea.

Most neuting ictus fits run an energy injector, so your argument is also invalid there.

Anni, I seriously doubt you have taken any look at how difficult it is to do these fits, no offense.

Green is slow and does low DPS. Those are 2 huge disadvantages right there. We can fit to be nasty when up close, or fit for long range. Nasty + Up close is still going like 65-67 KPH with a frame. Pretty much any mech can outrun that...

Our shield tank requires us to sacrifice even more DPS due to the 5 second cycle time.

ECM / Suppression has ALWAYS worked vs NPCs, that argument is also invalid.

Green is far from overpowered, we are ballanced around low dps + low speed. Of course we are good at other stuff wink

Anni, what does green have besides LOS advantage if you took away our tank (which is really just our free accumulator) + energy warefare?

Answer:
Nothing

Green Advantages: Accumulator, LOS, Range (only with higher tier equip and sacrificing extreme DPS bonus to do it, LOS bonus is not useful without range at high end combat)
Blue Advantages: DPS (Damage percentage), Speed
Yellow Advantages: DPS (Cycle Time and Crit), Resistsance

Our accumulator was meant to be used... that is one of the main reasons to play green after all?

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

I would disagree, because greens have a lot of counter tactics what can do against them. I would rather say that zenith with range extenders and supressors is imbalanced.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Neuts are usefull only for ictus because of his bonus. When tyranos or gropho using neuts, it will burn their acc to the 0, what will drop their shields down.
Iktus and neuts are balanced.
Dont make mistake, dont nerf iktus second time, it will be not good for pelistians, what have now not many advantages at all.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Ï'd better say that Drainers are underpowered a little, but  believe that wil lbe very hard to improve them without making them overpowered. Neutralizers are good as they are now.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Line wrote:

Ï'd better say that Drainers are underpowered a little, but  believe that wil lbe very hard to improve them without making them overpowered. Neutralizers are good as they are now.

this exactly ...

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Drainers designed to support your capacitor like co-injector. They are fine now.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

nice to see how many fell for the troll title of the topic.

Issues with energy warfare i have:

- its even more powerfull then ECM. It does not only kill your offensive potential, its also killing your already low defense with ease (no accu, no repair, no active modules like active hardeners or SA)
- its more expensive then anything else (skill complexity 6-7 for 2%/rank)
- with current Accumulator mechanics drainer have to "suck" as they do now. I have already experienced Ictus with drainer amount bonus.

to make it clear:

this topic was started to get a bit into a discussion about Energy Warfare. So many complained after ERP nerf that they have wasted points into EnWF, or now complaining about AoE explosions of plated mechs. Some time ago shield mechs have been called "IMBA"

and the counter always was: Drainer/Neut.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

11 (edited by Kazzanka 2011-10-21 19:51:03)

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

It's not more powerful than ECM, it's different for sure--but outside of that its highly subjective to the situation going on.  Yes, being drained to zero shuts you down like nothing else--but that's not always easy.  And I can tell you right now--if we're bringing ECMs and/or supressors into the mix that's about all you need to make an Ictus useless.  Any vagabond or zenith pilot worth his salt will absolutely out range an Ictus, sometimes by hundreds of meters--and that's NOT affected by LOS like neuts are.

I haven't heard anyone complain about being a drainer bot post ERP nerf(which I don't specifically think needed to happen anyways) because an Ictus or even a Troiar if it's fit well can be a nightmare on any bot still.

Ictus are naturally balanced around other gameplay mechanics, such as needing LOS on your target, being slow, and being a fairly close range mech compared to whats out there shooting back at you.  The last big fight I had in my Ictus involved fighting a CIR squad, and I was being hit at 1000 meters by Lemon's Seth--there isn't *** you can do as a green EWAR pilot except hope they don't have a good vaga of zenith out there, hope you DO, or fire up that injector and make use of those tough Ictus shields because 500+ meters can be a long walk at 72kph when everyone on your damn landmark list has you on primary.

I actually think green EWAR is balanced quite well at the moment, it sucks to miss out on a lot of the real electronic warfare bonuses and nexus boosts--but it works out fine because they would make the damn bots OP.

And most importantly--neutralizing is a two way street: you're RAPING your own accumulator in the process.  If you happen to chew through the 47 total injector charges an Ictus can carry, while sustaining fire through it or being ECM'/supp'd/neuted yourself you become exactly like the targets you were neuting--totally useless.  It's a delicate dance of death yarr

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

TLDR:

1. You can't use neuts without restrictions even as a green pilot
2. Neuts are ballanced around:
a. Slow Speed
b. Short range
c. LOS Requirement
3. Neuting *** your own tank which you need to get close range without instantly dying

Who the hell was complaining energy warfare was useless post ERP nerf?

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Annihilator wrote:

nice to see how many fell for the troll title of the topic.

Issues with energy warfare i have:

- its even more powerfull then ECM. It does not only kill your offensive potential, its also killing your already low defense with ease (no accu, no repair, no active modules like active hardeners or SA)
- with current Accumulator mechanics drainer have to "suck" as they do now. I have already experienced Ictus with drainer amount bonus.

If you have problem with Ictus than you doing something wrong. If you have ECM or 1-2 supressors fitted (or buddy with it), than you just need to break LOS of Ictus till he is jammed or supressed (and relocking you), in that time youo can shoot him freely. Neutralisers and drainers need clear path to use, not like ECM s-demob or supressor. So they are not overpowered, just balanced now.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

15 (edited by Sundial 2011-10-20 15:44:35)

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Hugh Ruka wrote:

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

This would be imbalanced as there would be no good counter to long range fits in general.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Hugh Ruka wrote:

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

In this case pelistal would be overpowered ... just think a bit in PVP mode smile

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Sundial wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

This would be imbalanced as there would be no good counter to long range fits in general.

not exactly. long range setups are VERY los dependent. unless you mean 300m as long range.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Exomorph wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

In this case pelistal would be overpowered ... just think a bit in PVP mode smile

I do. I am Pelistal :-)))

But seriously demobing somebody through a hill is silly. I can imagine ECM to work over obstacles but demobs don't fit the picture.

19 (edited by Exomorph 2011-10-21 11:48:15)

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Exomorph wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

In this case pelistal would be overpowered ... just think a bit in PVP mode smile

I do. I am Pelistal :-)))

But seriously demobing somebody through a hill is silly. I can imagine ECM to work over obstacles but demobs don't fit the picture.

Why not? Its an electronic system jammer. Jams your robots coordinating processor like other processors by ecm or supressor.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

nope, demobing is heat based, like a microwave oven. wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Sundial wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:

conclusion: make all ewar LOS restricted.

This would be imbalanced as there would be no good counter to long range fits in general.

not exactly. long range setups are VERY los dependent. unless you mean 300m as long range.

I see... we never have encountered a 1100 meter range gropho yet lol

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Sundial wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:
Sundial wrote:

This would be imbalanced as there would be no good counter to long range fits in general.

not exactly. long range setups are VERY los dependent. unless you mean 300m as long range.

I see... we never have encountered a 1100 meter range gropho yet lol

if you are running towards a Gropho ove a 1km+ flat terrain you are doing it wrong ... there's very little such landmass that could not be worked around a more hilly terrain. the only reason would be that you must kill that gropho for some personal reason, there I can't help you.

also making Ewar LOS based can just decrese the efficiency instead of making it miss. Like attenuating the signal through a hill, so an ECM is weaker, same for demobs and damps.

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

i once had the idea that sensor strength and ECM strength working range based, and for each locked target individually.

but that would be a substential change that needs a test server...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

Annihilator wrote:

i once had the idea that sensor strength and ECM strength working range based, and for each locked target individually.

but that would be a substential change that needs a test server...

AOE ECM/Suppression? Whats this? I must have this..... I would love to have a E-war mech that put out an ECM pulse 150m radius OMG park it under danachov. That would be over powered.
But I think I see where your going with this at a certain ECM strength you get 100% chance at a certain distance (Close range). Basicly your adding a true effective range and falloff to ewar, could be intresting.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Neutraliser overpowered?

neuts take down zergs, nough said.