26 (edited by Triglav 2011-09-03 12:31:08)

Re: POS - why?

Purgatory wrote:

Don't see the point in POS with the current landmass setup. Small islands multiple outposts on each, where are the POS going to go exactly and what is there point?

Give perpetuum a full game world please, one giant landmass!

While I agree with your point regarding landmasses, your first statement of not seeing the point  in POS (even though only currently) is very short sighted.

From development point of view it's *** easier to create structures that offer more interaction to players + more incentive to fight for than creating entire new landmasses from scratch and making them part of the existing world. Additionally there is NOT enough playerbase in the game to really fill the current islands and the additional hypothetical continental landmass.
Also once you had that landmasses, you'd want to populate them with POSes (and people). Plus you'd want to populate current islands with them.

The development order is unquestionably more reasonable to go for POS first.


o/

Re: POS - why?

There's a a lot they could do with player structures.

Right now, they could add mining/extractors on beta islands or sections of the beta islands you control.  That would open up the opportunity to charge a fee to let other corps use that land.  They could be throw-away structures like incubators and/or have the ability to fuel a shield that reenforces before being destroyed.  The controlling corp could also add fixed defenses, something else that would need to be fueled.

For more complex player structures, I'd put them on new continents atarting with an alpha continent.  I think there should be an increasingly-costly wardec mechanic (syndicate wouldn't like too much of it) allowing you to attack them so the structures would be fairly safe for the individual, but for the bigger corps they would face the possibility of getting wiped out by rivals periodically(I envision such wardecs to apply everywhere but the A-1's).  Hopefully, there would be a new research mechanic with structures, single line factories, defenses, mining, etc...

Sky's the limit for a beta continent.  It would be great to make it really hard for an established corp to defend both their beta island structures and those on the valuable of the continents.  You accomplish that by having tp's aplenty on the alpha continent, but very few on the beta continent.  You'll wind up with some people becoming outlaws on them and starting an interesting dynamic.  The structures themselves could be better on them with some unique advantages, worth fighting over.

^ Just some random thoughts.

Re: POS - why?

Triglav wrote:

...Additionally there is NOT enough playerbase in the game to really fill the current islands and the additional hypothetical continental landmass...

if a landmass gets "filled" with players, it means there is no place for more, and they can see (shoot) each others without any place to hide. That the whole reason why there is a request for bigger landmass without artifical chopoints is to guarantee that: safety in the void of nowhere.

beeing in the void of nowhere also means, there needs to be a possibility to place a "tent" where you sleep, or a camp where you can refuel your ride (ammo) and sort out the pillage.

fixed, undestructible and known buildings are just another form of chokepoint where you cannot hide or use it as a base -> greedy PvP player will just wait there.

current islands are to small for a PoS. it takes a few minutes to find you there, or a few alts to cover all island gates, which means, a player built structure would be nothing different from the current outpost, except for the fact, that it can be destroyed by someone while your offline.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

This thread really is missing the fundamental point.

If they are going to keep "safe" areas in and around POS, and or, beta/gamma islands.
WITH OUT giving the defenders more to work with, all of this POS "stuff" will be worthless.

As from a cost vs reward stand point its just better to live off of alpha and *** those who "live" or say they live on beta's.

Safe Spots in beta = *** beta

Just Sayin
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Re: POS - why?

Annihilator wrote:

current islands are to small for a PoS. it takes a few minutes to find you there, or a few alts to cover all island gates, which means, a player built structure would be nothing different from the current outpost, except for the fact, that it can be destroyed by someone while your offline.

Yes. Larger islands would need to be in place before any type of PoS is feesible IMO.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: POS - why?

Drop the permanent outposts, make the "S" refer to structures.

No permanent, invincible structures. Make buildings easy enough to disable that a response is worthwhile for any enemy gang of at least a dozen bots.

Buildings should be small, and buildings should be fairly easy to build and destroy. I'd like the feel to be similar to an RTS, with a constant ebb and flow of destruction and rebuilding. Many smaller buildings (rather than single, large buildings) means easier entry for small corps, and "variable" damage from invasions: easy to knock out a few small buildings and reduce your enemy's capacity, but much harder to wipe everything out and cripple them completely. It also means giant blobs wouldn't be necessary to accomplish something, in turn meaning that smaller ad hoc defence gangs might stand a chance at repelling invaders.

Just a few thoughts.

Re: POS - why?

I agree with Arilou. I hope that the majority of structures are fast to build and to destroy so that there is stuff for smaller groups to engage and frequent need to replace them. POS bashing in the other game was annoying, setting up POS was even worse. Having to spend an entire weekend watching set up timers isnt fun.

Re: POS - why?

Kroth wrote:

I agree with Arilou. I hope that the majority of structures are fast to build and to destroy so that there is stuff for smaller groups to engage and frequent need to replace them. POS bashing in the other game was annoying, setting up POS was even worse. Having to spend an entire weekend watching set up timers isnt fun.

Dev's listen to this guy if you want the game to be "fun" in the most *** way possible....

Just Sayin
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34

Re: POS - why?

Oh btw we already have a POS, its called noralgis.

And yea everyone loves to defend his copse. roll
Was awesome when they introduced it. roll

Re: POS - why?

AgY wrote:

Oh btw we already have a POS, its called noralgis.

And yea everyone loves to defend his copse. roll
Was awesome when they introduced it. roll


No No agy Pos's would NEVER be like that...never never ever ever lol

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Re: POS - why?

I think it's a bit too much to expect from the Devs to design and code a POS system, design a giant landmass and implement all of that in a reasonable timeframe.

The main attraction to POS, or player built structures, is that it shapes the gameworld in ways the Devs don't have to. Most players would love to build something, even if its to create a message in a rock saying "***".

As an example, when CIR was playing SWG we spent months just planning out the architecture, layout and various districts for our player-city. Then came the grind to level the character who had the Architect professions, then we had to level the Politician profession character... And just finishing basic city was the beginning, then we had to attract merchants, crafters, cantina-owners, and the various hordes of people to come live in our city, build decorations and plazas, plot out the traffic between the shuttle-bay and the merchant district... It was FUN.

But I digress, the main point I would make is when you have too much destruction in-game it always turns into small clique of l33t PVPrz killing each other and calling each other names. When you have too much creation in-game it always turns into carebears idly dancing around in the rainbow meadows.

Having a TINY bit of creation and customization in Perpetuum would do wonders, so when player A gets bored of constantly waging war, he can turn towards crafting/customizing his house (example). Or in Perp-terminology, a corp can turn towards crafting and customizing their home-island, home-outpost, blah blah.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: POS - why?

Syndic wrote:

But I digress, the main point I would make is when you have too much destruction in-game it always turns into small clique of l33t PVPrz killing each other and calling each other names. When you have too much creation in-game it always turns into carebears idly dancing around in the rainbow meadows.

Related to this is that too much destruction means everyone is always poor, tending to lose more than they hope to gain. If there isn't enough destruction, everyone gets exponentially richer over time.

The latter is far worse: achievements become meaningless since loss is insignificant, and the relative cost difference between low- and high-tier gear becomes so small it's also insignificant. The new-old gap becomes much wider than extensions alone would account for.

For a meaningful "end game", Perp needs to be progressively more difficult just to maintain equilibrium (see: Red Queen). Then there would always be a need to push even harder to achieve greater things. Idle rich players just get bored and leave, or they get bored and troll your game from the inside (see: EVE).

Re: POS - why?

sure, wealth and power of one agent must be something that doesn't fall below average, just because you got killed when you have been offline (docked at your outpost).

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

1. Temporary/semi-permanent camps
2. Automated defenses
3. NIC sinks
4. A GOAL TO LOOK FORWARD TO

The 4th point being the major for me. Having a POS in EVE was the first time I felt I did achieve something in the game. PO outposts are just NPC stations for me. You can capture one but it ends there. No sense achievement. It was always there and will be there after you leave.

We just need a ring of BETA-3 islands with nothing but teleports to make use of POSes.

Re: POS - why?

You all talk about larger land mass is needed for POSs, but the truth is I don't think that is going to happen.

If we get much bigger islands where you could hide your POSs then this game would go in the direction of being an exploration/survival game instead of a PvP game, and I do not think DEV's want to go that route.

Industrial Junkie

Re: POS - why?

I think that while the Devs are super-competent and wonderful, they suffer from the indy syndrome of "lets let the players design the game for us". I personally don't see any outline of a plan or direction the Devs want to go, it mainly seems to be implementing few useful features and balance-tweaks based on "feedback" i.e. what persons X, Y, Z who are on Skype-contact-lists cry about the most.

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42 (edited by Annihilator 2011-09-06 11:52:27)

Re: POS - why?

well, we are going towards bigger islands, thats for sure. If they are filled with static spawns and every 5km a teleporter or static base, then the reason to have a bigger island is -> ZERO

I remember a rule for "fishtanks": 1 Liter water per cm fish. I wonder how much m² per m robotsize you need in this game, especially since the robots shoot at each other.

*edit: huh, Tamas in Pie?*

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: POS - why?

POS! heck need i remind poeple just how PANTS POS's in that other game realy were? or have you forgotten? and there still pants all these years l8r ask you selves why! and DEVs plz dont go that route.

Re: POS - why?

Annihilator wrote:

I remember a rule for "fishtanks": 1 Liter water per cm fish. I wonder how much m² per m robotsize you need in this game, especially since the robots shoot at each other.

*edit: huh, Tamas in Pie?*

Being a tiger I need lots of space and a big territory. We're loners.

Meowww!!

Re: POS - why?

Players like to have an effect on the game. POS is a way to do that, but so if terra-forming, which is why both these subjects come up so often.

Its a sandbox game, it's expected that some type of player interaction with the environment will happen.

Re: POS - why?

POS's will be in game, unless something has changed since previously planned. Back a few months ago, one of the devs made mention that he was working on POS's. Too all those that seem to think they will ruin the game, well, you don't know how they will work so how can you assume to predict as such? I know how people love to liken this game to Eve and point out how in Eve, they subjectively think it ruined the game. But this is PO, a different game with a different dev team. The longer this dev team has, the more I think this game will evolve beyond just being 'like Eve'. The POS' that we were already told were coming can play a huge role in this self-defining stage so let's just sit back and see what they come up with first. Then you can all judge and complain and critique when you actually have something solid to go on.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: POS - why?

End game content in a sandbox game?...i dont agree..by definition only themeparks have end game...sooo...no..we dont need endgame content.

One thing is that you feel that you dont have anything to do..and another is asking for somekind of end game content like if you have already "beated" the game

Re: POS - why?

Natasha wrote:

End game content in a sandbox game?...i dont agree..by definition only themeparks have end game...sooo...no..we dont need endgame content.

One thing is that you feel that you dont have anything to do..and another is asking for somekind of end game content like if you have already "beated" the game

As much as this is a sandbox it's very fast paced.
It's very easy to have and have done everything which is sort of the old end game this game has.
"Do everything until you're bored of it and then go play another game while gaining more EP"

Re: POS - why?

Natasha wrote:

End game content in a sandbox game?...i dont agree..by definition only themeparks have end game...sooo...no..we dont need endgame content.

One thing is that you feel that you dont have anything to do..and another is asking for somekind of end game content like if you have already "beated" the game

there is end game content in every game. it's called differently but you cannot escape it. it's simply the point where you have done everything there is to do. some games have a level cap for this, some have a story line.

Re: POS - why?

by definition, Sandbox just means no goal given from the game itself. Its based around the thought that the player set their own goal and try to archieve it.

Perpetuum is a sandbox, because there is no story you follow up.

The player created content here is mostly ideologic, nothing physical. Those player alliances fighting each others, sometimes more on forums then ingame, and the market.
what we are missing is the physical stuff of a sandbox.


A man must do three things in life: to build a house, conceive a son and plant a tree.

ok, we can plant noralgis, but no trees
m2s has concieved NewHope Alliance, other got in some new player by viral advertising

just missing the house part...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear