Topic: This game became full of cheap stuff

Lets assume next picture:
You searching for a kind of vitality method. You working hard for a days.And then you achieve your goal,and kill you became hard, but possible. And you gain
Soon all people, who failed to kill your fit setup, trying to figure out how to win. Its a surprise for many people, that for win you should do a hard work. But laziness is a huge factor. Its much easier to push at Devs, and disbalance game in a side whats suits you...change a game where you will work less and kill much.

Tanks was awesome tools for defence. They was slow, blind, with low DPS. That was really efficient tool against light squads. ERP tanks are VERY expencive machines. If you want to build them, you should spend days of efforts. If you rolling them out from terminal you riisking to loose half of hundred of billion nics. If you want to kill them, you should do something more than 10 assaults with weapons and demobs.

We made a lot of tests, and figured out how to kill any erp setup. To achieve this we used even grup of t1 assaults with proper fittings. We can also show to Devs how this achieving.

Why most of the people used to only shoot? Why anyone dont want to create other kind of warfare? All warfare movements from a pure-dps was nerfed. Why devs thinks only about dps part? At the moment everything is awesome with dps part. If you want succesfull operation, you should gather dps squad with detector. For now there is too less effective methods to oppose this squads. One of the last one was nerfed.

I will be very glad if Devs will give answer what they expecting from pvp in this game. Why all major ballance changes was not reimbursed with EP? Why we should now train shields and energy system extensions for example, if they will be nerfed if winers will cry "i cant kill his shield".

AT last i want to say you that t1 assaults should be afraid of erp mesmer. Its very expencive machine.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

I think more importantly Devs should show us where is this feedback they base balancing from. As since M2S wipe and EVE exodus, all balance was in favor of using cheap T1 light and assault ships for PVP.

There is only 1 corporation in-game that barks very loudly about using cheap T1 light and assault ships for PVP. There is no feedback on public forum for real community to debate, so must assume there is only hidden bias feedback in Skype & PM to scare Developer into rash decision.

What is point of T2, T3, T4 production? What is point of Research? What is point of Epriton and Beta islands if we moving towards cheap T1 light ships being best for PVP?

Maybe its time to move away from these private Skype friend feedbacks, and have publically in the community elected representatives who can advise Devs on in-game balance situations.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

3 (edited by Inda 2011-08-28 19:25:44)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

I really dont understand why said all the time will be the best for pvp t1 assaults. Mechs, Heavy Mechs still has a more advantage despite the last changes than assaults, lights. I dont undertsand you all.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

4 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-08-28 19:32:58)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

so must assume there is only hidden bias feedback in Skype & PM to scare Developer into rash decision.

Maybe it's time you stop thinking there is some kind of conspiracy, and realize that others can provide feedback on forums, and through interaction just as you can and have. Your alliance already used it to suggest a "alliance" feature be implemented, so it's not like you're not being heard as others are. Did you catch the erp post?

Multiple times I've seen players make valid points on the balance and Q&A forums, sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. We do use those, and can point devs to them.

Maybe its time to move away from these private Skype friend feedbacks, and have publically in the community elected representatives who can advise Devs on in-game balance situations.

No thanks, that was implemented in other games and did not work in mortal online, didn't work in eve online(CSM). We have the Q&A/balance which at least separates the devs from some kind of "bias"

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

community elected representatives who can advise Devs on in-game balance situations

Inevitably (if not immediately) turns into just another layer of worthless politicking. (see also: EVE)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

T1 drops should never really happen.
If it can be farmed it will be cheaper. That's the issue.
T1 fittings are not OP by any means by using a lot of them can be.
Take demobs for example. They go from 120m newbies to 350m pros. That is one module that should always be around 200m with 250m being the most pro range.

Long range demobs can of course be 400m (Double short range basically) used to catching up to the enemy.

I would like to see more threads about game balance to be honest because I believe it's time for one major sake up on this game. Let's rewrite this mess and make it sensible.

IF a good idea is raised here and supported it can go to the devs whom can also apply their logic to it but primarily the devs need to choose for themselves the direction they want to go it.

Ever since the early days of.. Hmm.. We'll call it "Evefluence" the devs have really failed to convey their desires for this game.

I remember during beta asking devs online what type of game they were making and every time I got a different answer and I don't just mean different. I mean Different...

Major game balance should be the priority of ALL developers but minor balance such as weapon ranges and hit point values should be left to a balance dev. For example saying HMs should have lots of HP (10x) that of a light robot then sets a nice ground rule for the balance dev. At the moment it feels very much like it's all being left up to a few people who don't agree with each other.

Let's lose the Evefluence from the days of old and back track a little. If it gets to the point that major changes then we'll cross the EP reset bridge WHEN we come to it.

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Syndic wrote:

Maybe its time to move away from these private Skype friend feedbacks, and have publically in the community elected representatives who can advise Devs on in-game balance situations.

Is that so? It's an honest question. If that's true ... i don't like it. Reminds me too much of the verrrrry deep relationship between devs and some players in EVE.

And the abuse of it.

8 (edited by Arilou 2011-08-28 22:03:20)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Seems really odd for T0 to be totally worthless. Make those the common drop and rename them "Basic" ("Flawed" is a total branding fail). Then indies are only competing directly with rare drops and artifacts. T1 rises in price a bit; T0 fills the new cheapo gap. Maybe have NPC buy/sells for T0, at least until the market fills out.

Edit: if the devs really want worthless stuff in-game (understandable for depth reasons), maybe add a handful of "wrecked equipment" items that are only useful when recycled.

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Syndic wrote:

I think more importantly Devs should show us where is this feedback they base balancing from. As since M2S wipe and EVE exodus, all balance was in favor of using cheap T1 light and assault ships for PVP.

There is only 1 corporation in-game that barks very loudly about using cheap T1 light and assault ships for PVP. There is no feedback on public forum for real community to debate, so must assume there is only hidden bias feedback in Skype & PM to scare Developer into rash decision.

What is point of T2, T3, T4 production? What is point of Research? What is point of Epriton and Beta islands if we moving towards cheap T1 light ships being best for PVP?

Maybe its time to move away from these private Skype friend feedbacks, and have publically in the community elected representatives who can advise Devs on in-game balance situations.

hm...

Syndic wrote:

I think even Entamoeba Histolytica has a higher moral ground then a corporation whose history consists of a collection of corp-thefts, account misappropriations, creative use of bugged game features for "testing purposes", creative use of insurance game mechanics, creative use of corporate storage folders, resetting prototypers, "Infesting" nearly all outposts in the game, accusing Devs of bias, accusing GM's of bias, and most notably trying to grind the entire community either back into Alpha or out of the game all-together.

Interesting.

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

I like how everything is always M2S' fault.

Even when it's got nothing to do with us at all.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

11 (edited by Annihilator 2011-08-29 00:41:57)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

m2s is still a factor in game?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Annihilator wrote:

m2s is still a factor in game?

I know, right? big_smile

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

I advise to developers to cancel nerf and to think of balance again.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

One member of CHAOS said:
Now, all noobs are asked to take advantage of the old players. After a while they want something more than PvP in t1 assault robots.

And then will come the new...

What for the developers spend their time?

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Nice work devs: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=6404

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

16 (edited by Gremrod 2011-08-29 04:38:17)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Hunter wrote:

Nice work devs: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=6404

Lets look at this kill....


1. blue on green. (check)
2. 3 assults for DPS. (check)
3. Ewar. (check)
4. 3 ewar with dmg. (check)
5. 6 vs 1 HM and HM loses. (check)

Yeah I think that is correct. All depends on the persons fit on a grohpo. But lets face 6 vs 1.

I would expect a HM to go down with 6 vs 1.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

17 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-08-29 04:49:16)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Add in ecms, and low sensor strength on heavy mech. It's not a cake walk killing a heavy, especially with fast lock time, and 1-2 shot lights.

18 (edited by Hunter 2011-08-29 05:10:56)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Gremrod wrote:
Hunter wrote:

Nice work devs: http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=6404

Lets look at this kill....


1. blue on green. (check)
2. 3 assults for DPS. (check)
3. Ewar. (check)
4. 3 ewar with dmg. (check)
5. 6 vs 1 HM and HM loses. (check)

Yeah I think that is correct. All depends on the persons fit on a grohpo. But lets face 6 vs 1.

I would expect a HM to go down with 6 vs 1.

I think that should be asked to victims combat log.
I am sure that the heavy mech has been in t4 equipment and attackers in the t1 garbage.
I see the useless of heavies, because he can die from noob-squad. (CHECK)
I see "Total Damage Taken:     2775.66" I'm sure that was not used Neutralizers. The robot was just killed.(CHECK)

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

I'm talking about what you have done an excellent job. You were able to defeat us. Suppose it was not in the game, but you have won.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

20 (edited by Hunter 2011-08-29 05:30:56)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Ok, here is murders battle log:

[19:06:01] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:01] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:01] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:01] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:01] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:01] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:09] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:09] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:09] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:09] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:09] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:09] Hit blocked by obstacle.
[19:06:13] Bob Johnson > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:14] Bob Johnson > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:16] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:21] checksum > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:21] Arc X > 20.74 damage > Ville
[19:06:21] Arc X > 13.68 damage > Ville
[19:06:22] Lupus Aurelius > 17.79 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:22] Lupus Aurelius > 11.17 damage > Ville
[19:06:24] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:25] Arc X > 21.12 damage > Ville
[19:06:25] Arc X > 15.53 damage > Ville
[19:06:25] Lupus Aurelius > 11.70 damage > Ville
[19:06:25] Lupus Aurelius > 11.44 damage > Ville
[19:06:25] Bob Johnson > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:26] Bob Johnson > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:27] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:28] Lupus Aurelius > 10.26 damage > Ville
[19:06:28] Lupus Aurelius > 18.28 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:28] Bob Johnson > 5.10 damage > Ville
[19:06:28] Bob Johnson > 5.62 damage > Ville
[19:06:28] Arc X > 15.48 damage > Ville
[19:06:28] Arc X > 20.55 damage > Ville
[19:06:29] JeanMi Requile > 20.00 AP drained > Ville
[19:06:30] JeanMi Requile > 20.00 AP drained > Ville
[19:06:31] checksum > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:31] Karism > 23.88 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Karism > 22.86 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Karism > 23.79 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Karism > 24.68 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Karism > 21.17 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Lupus Aurelius > 11.11 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Lupus Aurelius > 12.12 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] checksum > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:31] Arc X > 21.12 damage > Ville
[19:06:31] Arc X > 12.95 damage > Ville
[19:06:32] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:34] Lupus Aurelius > 11.46 damage > Ville
[19:06:34] Lupus Aurelius > 11.64 damage > Ville
[19:06:34] Karism > 30.77 damage > Ville
[19:06:34] Karism > 35.62 damage > Ville
[19:06:34] Karism > 37.21 damage > Ville
[19:06:34] Karism > 34.40 damage > Ville
[19:06:34] Karism > 32.76 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Futuro > 37.29 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Futuro > 36.12 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Futuro > 38.65 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Futuro > 37.43 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Futuro > 37.25 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Arc X > 14.87 damage > Ville
[19:06:35] Arc X > 21.39 damage > Ville
[19:06:36] checksum > 39.64 damage > Ville
[19:06:36] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:37] Lupus Aurelius > 10.42 damage > Ville
[19:06:37] Lupus Aurelius > 11.05 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Karism > 33.17 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Karism > 30.35 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Karism > 34.26 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Karism > 31.35 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Karism > 32.69 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Arc X > 13.39 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Arc X > 17.79 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Futuro > 35.77 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Futuro > 37.28 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Futuro > 37.28 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Futuro > 38.22 damage > Ville
[19:06:38] Futuro > 38.71 damage > Ville
[19:06:39] JeanMi Requile > 20.00 AP drained > Ville
[19:06:40] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer successfully jammed > Ville
[19:06:40] Lupus Aurelius > 12.05 damage > Ville
[19:06:40] Lupus Aurelius > 10.77 damage > Ville
[19:06:40] JeanMi Requile > 20.00 AP drained > Ville
[19:06:41] checksum > targeting
[19:06:41] checksum > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:41] Karism > 33.90 damage > Ville
[19:06:41] Karism > 33.72 damage > Ville
[19:06:41] Karism > 69.04 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:41] Karism > 35.81 damage > Ville
[19:06:41] Karism > 69.96 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:41] Arc X > 17.90 damage > Ville
[19:06:41] Arc X > 14.07 damage > Ville
[19:06:42] Futuro > 36.13 damage > Ville
[19:06:42] Futuro > 33.57 damage > Ville
[19:06:42] Futuro > 37.16 damage > Ville
[19:06:42] Futuro > 35.21 damage > Ville
[19:06:42] Futuro > 35.07 damage > Ville
[19:06:42] Arc X > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:42] checksum > 33.28 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Inda > 31.03 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Inda > 31.89 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Inda > 32.52 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Inda > 29.64 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Inda > 30.69 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Lupus Aurelius > 10.74 damage > Ville
[19:06:43] Lupus Aurelius > 20.78 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Karism > 34.18 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Karism > 36.91 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Karism > 36.57 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Karism > 35.72 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Karism > 35.94 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Arc X > 20.33 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Arc X > 14.66 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Futuro > 35.86 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Futuro > 37.41 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Futuro > 32.81 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Futuro > 33.69 damage > Ville
[19:06:45] Futuro > 34.98 damage > Ville
[19:06:46] JeanMi Requile > targeting computer not jammed > Ville
[19:06:46] Inda > 71.43 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:46] Inda > 43.21 damage > Ville
[19:06:46] Inda > 37.63 damage > Ville
[19:06:46] Inda > 42.39 damage > Ville
[19:06:46] Inda > 43.16 damage > Ville
[19:06:47] Lupus Aurelius > 21.37 critical damage > Ville
[19:06:47] Lupus Aurelius > 11.68 damage > Ville
[19:06:48] Karism > 39.31 damage > Ville
[19:06:48] Karism > 34.83 damage > Ville
[19:06:48] Karism > 39.69 damage > Ville
[19:06:48] Karism > 37.88 damage > Ville
[19:06:48] Karism > 38.71 damage > Ville

A robot's most powerful class lived less than a minute in the battle with t1 noob squad. I repeat once again: Good job DeVs. (CHECK)

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/

21 (edited by Novablob 2011-08-29 05:39:56)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

edit: wrong acct

22 (edited by Sundial 2011-08-29 05:43:19)

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

I think the problem is that heavy mechs are not supposed to be superweapons. They are best suited for defense/large scale assults due to their slow speed, but currently for your alliance they are avoided by speed fit light/assult squads who easily outmaneuver them, and have no use for offense because the enemy does not have an outpost.

So in the context of your alliance, they just do not have that much use.

If anything, their cost should be reduced a bit to be brought more in line with their intended effectiveness.

The heavy mech got ECMd and had no support and looked like it was speed fit (2.7k armor..). Of course it died...

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Sundial wrote:

I think the problem is that heavy mechs are not supposed to be superweapons. They are best suited for defense/large scale assults due to their slow speed, but currently for your alliance they are avoided by speed fit light/assult squads who easily outmaneuver them, and have no use for offense because the enemy does not have an outpost..

This. Armor rep/rep tank is no longer a FOTM. It is still a viable build against 2-3 assaults

Remember that large capital ships are coming; those will be the epic bots, not heavy mechs

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Alfredson wrote:
Sundial wrote:

I think the problem is that heavy mechs are not supposed to be superweapons. They are best suited for defense/large scale assults due to their slow speed, but currently for your alliance they are avoided by speed fit light/assult squads who easily outmaneuver them, and have no use for offense because the enemy does not have an outpost..

This. Armor rep/rep tank is no longer a FOTM. It is still a viable build against 2-3 assaults

Remember that large capital ships are coming; those will be the epic bots, not heavy mechs

Exactly... Heavy mechs are not the titans of perpetuum.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: This game became full of cheap stuff

Sundial wrote:
Alfredson wrote:
Sundial wrote:

I think the problem is that heavy mechs are not supposed to be superweapons. They are best suited for defense/large scale assults due to their slow speed, but currently for your alliance they are avoided by speed fit light/assult squads who easily outmaneuver them, and have no use for offense because the enemy does not have an outpost..

This. Armor rep/rep tank is no longer a FOTM. It is still a viable build against 2-3 assaults

Remember that large capital ships are coming; those will be the epic bots, not heavy mechs

Exactly... Heavy mechs are not the titans of perpetuum.

ololololololo...
They was like eve titans because you do not know how to play.

Everyone should understand that any balancing generates only new a disbalance.

Сайт корпорации: www.chaos-online.ru
Раздел приема в корпорацию: http://www.chaos-online.ru/foru....-perpetuum/