As a alpha dweller and dedicated carebear, I still agree with most of this. I wouldn't say NO new alpha islands, putting (3) new alpha II islands on the 'far' side of another set of (9) beta islands would create a desire to transit from Alpha II to Alpha III as these islands get crowded. And more than anything, getting players MOVING is what creates opportunity for PVP. This also creates potential for other markets, and 'safe' havens from the next Island expansions too. A 'Wagon stop' so to speak.

As far as increasing incentives for beta, we've been down this. The only thing at this point that increasing non-objective based rewards will do is make the current beta-dwelling corps even richer; it will do little to incentivize others to use the islands, because it's not 'reward' that's stopping them as was pointed out, it's just too much risk.

Those two features is why I only played EVE once, their lack of is why I play this game now. Local doesn't add skill, it just means the target has to be afk or dumb. Simply use scouts to scout, the game doesn't need to auto scout for you.

And if want to capitalize on better incentives in beta without dying every 10 minutes, maybe use a group or scouts, or anything really. As it stands there is very little incentive to be on beta other than epriton, why should only mining be so much more lucrative(epriton is like 6x as expensive compared to other ores). Other aspects should also respect this so that people other than miners have a reason to try their hand at beta.
Also either way I think the ammo rewards increase will be helpful on alpha and beta, for new players and vets who want the med PvP ammo.

Overall with these easily adjustable increases and hopefully getting some alpha corps to band together to make a green island alliance is the best way to foster a better environment other than simply waiting for more players which we all agree is needed, but for that we'll mostly have to wait for more time/more advertisement.

While I do agree that beta could use some additions like those Never suggested, as it is right now if you are smart about it you can make plenty from beta's as they are now. For the most part they are pretty empty of people. Play smart and you will profit.

However if added plasma, kernals etc etc will get more people out there doing their thing then I'm all for it. Not just so that there are more people to roam and kill right now but so that other individuals and corps can develop the industrial backbone to provide great wars as well as to start filling out the high tiered stuff on the market.

I also agree that while alpha shouldn't be nerfed as it is right now it should also not grow anymore. As it is there is very little reason not to do most of your mining and npcing on alpha. Maybe some overcrowding and not enough mins to go around will help push people to learn, adapt, and to expand to beta islands.

I didn't mean to frame it as increasing Beta incentives. If Alpha is kept small and crowded, then it actually matters much less whether Beta gets any explicit (i.e. coded in) advantages. That fact that you'd always be squeezing in between other players to farm or mine on Alpha, with no chance to forcibly push them elsewhere, would stand more as a matter of differentiation than an incentive one way or the other. Then you're always fighting with other players for resources no matter where you are. The question is only whether its a passive or active aggression.

There is no need to add risk at all for someone who DO NOT LIKE IT.

All your aiming to FORCE them into PvP is to get easy targets for your e-peen-boards.

It's getting old. Every second week a new "nerf alpha buff beta" thread pops up.
And a point ALL of them miss is: 50% of the Alpha carebares are Alt Chars from Beta players!

I remember a poster, who addmited, that he has ONE 00 Char which was carried by 13 (!!) highsec chars in EvE.

So best way to get more Chars to Beta: move your damn alt from Alpha to Beta!

I live on Hersh. Most Agents I see there are CIR, NeX, FOOM and all the other "we are Beta" Corps. Get off of my Alpha and move your ... to your damn Beta!
This will fix YOUR Beta problem (which is no problem at all).

Yes, keeping with the power of 3 here, I'd say 1 alpha for every 9 beta which is basicaly the same as 1:10

I've made several posts on overcrowding Alpha, that eventual overcrowding on alpha will drive corporations to beta more organically. The nerf to the alpha ore regen rate is something they did a while ago, and when the population of Perp increases it will be one of the first things you'll see posted, "OMG NO ORE", and then we'll know that we are reaching that pressure point. Earlier this year, before the great exodus, the 3 alpha islands were really feeling the pressure when they nerfed the alpha ore by limiting the cycles (went from reds to yellow). That pressure was relieved with Terra Incognito, but it will certainly play out again as population rises.

Allowing Alpha to overcrowd is also the answer to Jack's objection to risk. The players that are very risk adverse will, and can, simply stay on the Alpha Island. Corporations or individuals looking for a little more return on investment, that are less risk adverse, can make the migration to the more isolated Alpha III Island. And the PVP corps that are using alpha II will simply move to beta because the risk of beta, which they aren't adverse too, will be less then the time and effort mining green ore fields; or being unable to find any ore at all.

Just like you can't "Force" carebears to beta, you also can't "Force" PVP'ers to beta, but the PVP player has a much lower threshold to meet for them to go there. Where you run into issues, like Lucius remarked, is if you PUSH carebears out of alpha, then your pushing them out of the game, you won't push them to Beta. So while nerfing alpha would have the effect of forcing PVP'ers to Beta, it would also cost the game a large portion of its industrial base.

Beta is already incentivised to be USED, and lots of PVP'er do use Beta, they just don't live there. Increasing the NIC/hour on beta isn't going to make them move there, it's simply going to give them more return on their existing excursions.

The new outposts, which only give you incetives if you 'live' at the outpost are the right direction. Of course it's still going to take Corp leaders to make the decision to actually do it, and they may very well leave a large portion of their mining on Alpha II for now, which brings us back to the overcrowding. If the PVP core lives on Beta and alpha minerals become scarce due to over mining, then they will just naturally start mining on Beta. Which will then ease up the resources on alpha II.

Tl;DR - When we start to see threads complaining about ore abundancy again, we know we are making progress.

The trap right now with adusting ore is there aren't enough players to protect risky mining operations. The whole overcrowding is based on the volume of players using the alpha islands, not on the scarcity of the resources, and not simply the ore/plants but access to spawns as well.

So, at this time there really isn't any quick fix or adjustment, that's the downside of letting things happening organically.

+1 I would like to see more incentives for people not just to ninja farm betas but to actually live there. Maybe this, along with an alliance feature, would get some of the really active corps like NeX and friends into a bid for Beta island outposts.

I also believe that the cost of trying to take an outpost should be very low because all that cost does is keep groups who don't already have the assets from trying to get to a beta and hold it.

(Contrary to popular belief, the general sentiment I get from CiR is that we would love to see the other beta islands become inhabited. This would make for many more PvP opportunities and liven up the game significantly)

This game needs the builders and the miners and the farmers equally as much as it needs the soldiers and the destroyers and the killers. And these groups need each other. Someones gotta collect the materials to make the bots and someones gotta destroy the bots so more need to be made.

You all do understand this, right? Minor balancing and tweaking aside, you can't buff Beta by nerfing Alpha.

And comments like Alphas needing more risk because Betas got it much harsher and has more risk ..... Lol no one forced you to go to Beta ....

And I'm a carebear who thinks ninja farming or mining or ratting on Beta is worth the risk of getting killed. Beta simply needs a mechanics to let the corps hold land and grow and stay there 24-7.

Maybe the syndicate could offer loans for keeping an outpost for a week up to a month even, or  they could offer a package of defence bots and ammo.  The smaller the corp the better the rewards.

Edit: This could help new corps get started living in beta, should be only for first time takers perhaps.

lol. its like you have no idea at all, but keep posting. lol

One thing which would help is to cut off all teleports from Alpha 1 -> Alpha 2, and all teleports from Alpha 1 & Alpha 2 -> Beta 2.

Thus, the old Beta 1 islands would become "crossroads" of sorts, it would become necessary to go through B1 to get to B2, and to go through B1 to get to A2.

I don't think the issue is in the population, or the alpha vs beta ratios (imho, alpha2 is still too mineral-rich with 0 risk, observers are a joke that ignore stationary targets). The issue is in the umbrella of teleports which have absolutely NO bottlenecks or forced routes.

Gradually it could be extrapolated that "Gamma/Beta 3" islands would only be accessible through Beta 2 islands, etc. Thus, protection would become a premium, industrials would have a reason to contract mercenary corporations for convoy protection; over time industrials would band together to move their goods in one go to cut the merc-escort costs, and naturally this would draw the lawless element to the party even more.

Right now:

1. You can live & mine on Alpha 2 in complete safety. (again, observers are a joke that ignore stationary targets so dont mention them as "unsafe", they're only unsafe to nubs).
2. You can reach ANY Beta island from pretty much anywhere in the world, with minimal exposure to Beta travel-risks.
3. There is no reason to live on Beta because if you want, you can get there in 5 minutes, spend 2 hours doing your stuff, extract your goods in 5 minutes. The "risk" is that someone might spot you doing your stuff and get a group together to get there and stop you from leaving/docking in... 5 minutes? Yeah right.

I mean, Beta 2 is BETTER then Beta 1. In the future, Beta 3 or Beta X or whatever you call it, is going to be BETTER then Beta 2. If all of the Beta's, Gamma's, whatever can be reached from Alpha; what is the point in anyone holding the old islands? There's no negotiations to be done, no military escort to provide, no bribes handed off to grease gate guards, no targets for piracy.

It results in what we have now = 2/3 Beta 2 islands being owned, 1/3 Beta 1 island being a warzone, and generally 4/6 Beta islands being empty wastelands. Because there is no incentive to own them, if you can't get a Beta 2 you might as well not bother.

The mentality of "if I mine a sequer of Epri I win" is another dilemma, most of the corps won't risk more then a termis and a sequer on mining because its all they can afford to lose. They're probably proud of building 10-30 mechs a week too.

For those who were around during that time, our mining fleets on "Domsomalia" were 5x times in size that most corps put out TODAY, and "Domsomalia" was almost 6-7 months ago!

That mentality dilemma will never be solved, some people risk what they feel they can afford to lose; others will risk everything they have for maximum efficiency and maximum gain.