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Topic: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=corp&co … n%20Exiles

A lot.

You might think you need a mech and several months of EP to be competitive in pvp. You don't. We're closing in on two months for the oldest of our members and we've gotten loads of kills. Is our K/D ***? Well, sure. Let's see how good your k/d is when you run up against gangs with almost a year's advantage in ep, nic and experience! Although it's probably a lot better if you ignore the nearly one hundred arkhe losses lol.

Are we ~elitepvp~ personified? LOLNO. We do it for fun, and we don't mind losing so long as we had a good time.

When we first started this game, nobody was willing to pass out fits, like it was sacred and they must be hidden or something. It was annoying, but we figured anyone too scared to let us know what they were using up front was probably trying to keep us from seeing how bad it was in the first place.

Are they the best fits ever? Nope! Are they guaranteed to win you every fight? Nope! Are they tested in hundreds of engagements? Yep! And did they work well enough for us there? Sure! If you've got better ones, lay em out and I'll update our list.


Basic logic: While you'll use a lot of t1 gear as a newbie, there are a few upgrades that can really save your butt. T2 mods are the lightest in the game, so they'll help you squeeze out a few more kph. A t4 lwf is a lovely thing, but a t3 will get you moving almost as fast for a quarter the price. If you've got the money to spend, go for it!

General Advice: Set a minimum speed pilots must meet. We started with 68 and have since raised it to 72 and now 76. The higher the minimum speed you pick, the more of your new players will be in light bots -- and the more likely you'll be to catch the fun targets and escape the bad ones. You'll still get nabbed by EWAR bots, but if you're careful you can pull them away from the main gang and then charge to get them to bugger off (or land a kill!).

Remember, being fast is better than tank when you're in the spidey bots. You can break lock by backing out of range or sneak behind a tree or rock or a fold in the terrain and avoid all damage.

ASSAULT
Fitting Logic: Assaults are cheap and sturdy little bots. Slower than a light, not much more ehp when pvp fit but a ton more slots. The 3-4 headslots provide a great deal of versatility and allow you to tailor the bot for various needs.

Basic fit:
Arms: GUNZ!!! (or neuts, but we only did that a few times)
Legs: LWF, Universal Resist Plate or Local Rep, [Universal Resist or Evasive]


EWAR Support

Head: Sensor Amp, (Sensor Damp or ECM), S Demob, [Second ewar]

This fit was one we used before we really had pilots capable of filling ewar roles. It gave us a fighting chance against mechs, but the lack of bonuses for ecm cap reduction made things slightly irritating.


Damage
Head: S. Amp, Tuning, S Demob, [Tuning]

This is the fit we've been gravitating towards in recent days for our assaults. If I remember right it's slightly lighter, which provides a significant bonus in the long run (speed kills!). We've also got the pilots to run dedicated EWAR bots these days, so having backup ewar on the assaults is silly. We still run demobs on all assaults because, well, demobs are sweet ***.


Sneaky *** Assault Bot (Baph, because idk what the others are):
Head: S. Amp, S Demob, Signal Masker
Arms: Guns (prolly gonna need t2)
Legs: Rep, Armor Plate, LWF

This one is a *** to fit, but it's fun as hell to roll about in and what we like to use for ganking people. I absolutely advocate upping your Signal Masking and Signal Masking CPU Reduction (wtf is it called again?) skills if you want to use this kind of fit every day. The armor plate has two advantages here: it increases demob resist, and it has stupid low fitting requirements. Worth it since you're much more likely to get demob'd in solo engagements.


LIGHT BOT
Fitting Logic: These little guys pack a lot of punch (20% less dps than an assault, on a much harder to hit frame) and have a surprising amount of ehp considering the size. They have three major roles they can fill, each of which is radically different.

Scout:
Head: Signal Detector
Arms: EMPTY
Legs: LWF, Medium Accumulator Battery thingy

You need the medium accum battery to run the detector effectively with low skills, although I believe if you get your skills high enough it'll become possible to run it without. IDK! In any event, you should always have at least one person running about in a detector fit. Great for evading fights you can't win (ten mechs chilling on outpost when you've got three assaults and two lights), planning traps for the unwary and generally not getting taken unawares.


Tackle:
Head: S or L Demob
Arms: Drainer, Neutralizer
Legs: LWF, Evasive

This can be a bit tough to fit for a new guy, but the speed of the bot (and the difficulty of hitting it) makes it a fairly good option if you can't afford an ewar bot. We started using these after we ran into Kains and found it impossible to catch the little ***. You definitely want to aim for 80kph+ to make sure they can't escape! Neuts get used on it because they're actually reasonably effective at putting some pain on the enemy. They're also much lighter than guns. You can rip them off if you don't want them, it'll up the speed of the bot a bit.


Damage:
Head: S Demob -or- S. Amp -or- Tuning
Arms: GUNZ!
Legs: LWF, Universal -or- Evasive

This is a fun cheapo damage bot. A week old player can't fit a demob and four guns, so we swapped it for a Syntec one pretty often. You can run a plate in the lows instead of a universal or evasive, but it'll slow you down a huge amount.
 
EWAR Bots
We mostly do these with two of the bonused ewar modules for the bot, a sensor amp and an l demob. On the lows, you can go with a LWF and an Evasive, a shield or a rep depending on what you like and what you can afford. So far the shield has proven the most popular choice because it adds significantly to your quite mediocre ehp. Just remember not to leave it running if you aren't targeted, to turn it on when you see a yellow box, and to run like hell if you get redboxed!

Mechs:
We're still exploring the fits here. More news as we find it.

I mean, I'm sure I could open up a fitting tool and theorycraft some fits, but I think that's a goofy way of doing things.


Hopefully that helps new players looking for fits that work, even if they're not sekrit jeebus fits. We're now looking for stuff we can strip to lighten the weight without significantly impacting the performance. Should be fun!

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Ugh, I always forget to swap back to Piglet. Derp.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

You could still, you know, put out some public fits on a certain site. Maybe accompany them with a detailed description, explaining what they do and how you can make them work in more detail.

cool

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Im just going to leave this here...

http://sequer.nl/app

*Walks away slowly*

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5 Reply by Juan Valdez (edited by Juan Valdez 2011-08-16 22:51:40)

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

I had never seen it before, and it includes six fits, five of them for Grophos. Not exactly a newbie friendly resource! I also wanted to include a tad more information than your average fitting site allows for. I mean, it's named sequer, not exactly a name that brings to mind fitting tool!

If you'd like to swap it over to there go ahead, I won't mind. But I do want feedback and I do want to make sure my fellow newbies know that, yes, it is possible to compete a week into the game even if you'll be dying a lot!

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Fits dont make sense to me, as they mix things that should never be mixed.

Any newbie player can be perfectly competitive in PVP on DAY 1. No reason whatsoever to wait a week, two weeks, month, three months.

Extensions: Navigation 10, Faction Robot Control 3, Spec Ops Robot Control 1, Demobilization 1, rest of the points invest in faction-guns (if you want guns) or faction ewar (if you want ewar).

Join a good corp, jump into a light-ewar and off you go into the sunset, PVP 24/7 as they're dirt-cheap to massproduce by the hundreds.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Syndic wrote:

Fits dont make sense to me, as they mix things that should never be mixed.

Out of curiosity... what fits r u talking about?

Syndic wrote:

Join a good corp, jump into a light-ewar and off you go into the sunset, PVP 24/7 as they're dirt-cheap to massproduce by the hundreds.

Agreed joining a corp is always a lot of help just to pick up some tips & tricks if anything

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Juan Valdez wrote:

I had never seen it before, and it includes six fits, five of them for Grophos. Not exactly a newbie friendly resource!!

Yup, and you're discussing fits for new players. Can you do the 1 + 1?

lol

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Some of those fits are awful.
But I have to agree that new players can PVP.
It's a lot of fun and if you go with one or two pros it greatly changes the experience.
Leaders make the difference in PVP. Practise makes perfect.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Juan Valdez wrote:

I had never seen it before, and it includes six fits, five of them for Grophos. Not exactly a newbie friendly resource! I also wanted to include a tad more information than your average fitting site allows for. I mean, it's named sequer, not exactly a name that brings to mind fitting tool!

If you'd like to swap it over to there go ahead, I won't mind. But I do want feedback and I do want to make sure my fellow newbies know that, yes, it is possible to compete a week into the game even if you'll be dying a lot!


There are some l33t light bot fits in there now....just something I have been using....or wishing of....or dreaming of...something like that big_smile

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Syndic wrote:

Fits dont make sense to me, as they mix things that should never be mixed.

Any newbie player can be perfectly competitive in PVP on DAY 1. No reason whatsoever to wait a week, two weeks, month, three months.

Extensions: Navigation 10, Faction Robot Control 3, Spec Ops Robot Control 1, Demobilization 1, rest of the points invest in faction-guns (if you want guns) or faction ewar (if you want ewar).

Join a good corp, jump into a light-ewar and off you go into the sunset, PVP 24/7 as they're dirt-cheap to massproduce by the hundreds.

care to show us how to fit the bots better ?

the fits make perfect sense ... universal bee hive on the cheap ...

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Fits dont make sense to me, as they mix things that should never be mixed.

Any newbie player can be perfectly competitive in PVP on DAY 1. No reason whatsoever to wait a week, two weeks, month, three months.

Extensions: Navigation 10, Faction Robot Control 3, Spec Ops Robot Control 1, Demobilization 1, rest of the points invest in faction-guns (if you want guns) or faction ewar (if you want ewar).

Join a good corp, jump into a light-ewar and off you go into the sunset, PVP 24/7 as they're dirt-cheap to massproduce by the hundreds.

care to show us how to fit the bots better ?

the fits make perfect sense ... universal bee hive on the cheap ...

Keep an eye on fitting websites as they'll be kept up to date. We just need a rating system.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Alexander wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Fits dont make sense to me, as they mix things that should never be mixed.

Any newbie player can be perfectly competitive in PVP on DAY 1. No reason whatsoever to wait a week, two weeks, month, three months.

Extensions: Navigation 10, Faction Robot Control 3, Spec Ops Robot Control 1, Demobilization 1, rest of the points invest in faction-guns (if you want guns) or faction ewar (if you want ewar).

Join a good corp, jump into a light-ewar and off you go into the sunset, PVP 24/7 as they're dirt-cheap to massproduce by the hundreds.

care to show us how to fit the bots better ?

the fits make perfect sense ... universal bee hive on the cheap ...

Keep an eye on fitting websites as they'll be kept up to date. We just need a rating system.

that's not my point. stating the fits are bad is easy. but taking one of them and showing how it can be better (and why the choices were made) is a lot more helpfull than just posting a fit.

14 Reply by Alexander (edited by Alexander 2011-08-17 10:54:48)

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Alexander wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:

care to show us how to fit the bots better ?

the fits make perfect sense ... universal bee hive on the cheap ...

Keep an eye on fitting websites as they'll be kept up to date. We just need a rating system.

that's not my point. stating the fits are bad is easy. but taking one of them and showing how it can be better (and why the choices were made) is a lot more helpfull than just posting a fit.

5 light robots each fitting a suppressor instead of sensor amp makes them not very combat capable. Even a newbie with a sensor amp can do better. Take a single intakt with suppressors will mean there is some specialisation and will allow the light robots to focus on what they're meant for. DPS and speed.

Ewar is very powerful but only in the right hands and used on the right robot. When it comes down to it 10 light robots with ewar against a single target doesn't matter if they have ewar  or not because it's a gank. tongue

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Hugh Ruka wrote:

that's not my point. stating the fits are bad is easy. but taking one of them and showing how it can be better (and why the choices were made) is a lot more helpfull than just posting a fit.

Give away sovereign secrets of the mighty novastrov empire?... er, no. mad

but really though, its just experience when certain fits just begin to make sense.  So the OP is correct, just keep going out there and fighting, sure you'll lose a lot of material things but you'll gain a lot of valuble experience. cool

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Alexander wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Keep an eye on fitting websites as they'll be kept up to date. We just need a rating system.

that's not my point. stating the fits are bad is easy. but taking one of them and showing how it can be better (and why the choices were made) is a lot more helpfull than just posting a fit.

5 light robots each fitting a suppressor instead of sensor amp makes them not very combat capable. Even a newbie with a sensor amp can do better. Take a single intakt with suppressors will mean there is some specialisation and will allow the light robots to focus on what they're meant for. DPS and speed.

Ewar is very powerful but only in the right hands and used on the right robot. When it comes down to it 10 light robots with ewar against a single target doesn't matter if they have ewar  or not because it's a gank. tongue

this fits are for general gangs ... lose that ewar bot and you are without damps ... and the enemy will go for support first if he has any clue ... this way the capabilities are distributed and losing one bot does not remove all your ewar ...

17 Reply by AeonThePiglet (edited by AeonThePiglet 2011-08-17 14:49:47)

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

And so our fellow newbies can see what we dealt with.

"we use better fits, yours are bad"
"so show us your fits"
"sekrit but yours are bad"

The same basic conversation happens when it comes to higher tech gear on the market.

The fits we used are light on ep and fitting skills. They were also able to get the job done. We'll keep evaluating them, but we're not afraid to share our fits with the world just like we're not afraid to share our tech. Feel free to provide better ones, but if all you have to say is omg baed it's not very useful to anyone.

Why do we fit demobs on our lights? We need tackle, and more tackle is better. many newbies can't fit a demob and four guns, so even that isn't always an option. Why did we fit ewar on our assaults? Because we needed a platform to provide it that could lock fast. Lights can bring damps too, but the locking range of lights with newbie skills is too low for that to be viable without an amp, which they can't bring together.

I think a lot of people look at our fits and forget what prices were like when we first started. Fittings had to be cheap enough to be affordable while still being effective. And also that newbies have a hell of a time fitting anything at all.

18 Reply by Syndic (edited by Syndic 2011-08-17 15:03:48)

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Hugh Ruka wrote:

care to show us how to fit the bots better ?

the fits make perfect sense ... universal bee hive on the cheap ...

Yup, it's quite easy.

ASSAULT

Baphomet/Arbalest/Waspish

Head: 2 S.Amps + X (Demob/ECM/Supp/Tuning/Empty)
Chassis: 5 faction-guns
Legs: LWF, Small Rep

Commentary: Universal is irrelevant and useless on assaults, it doesn't warrant its 250kg weight on such a small bot. Nowhere without 2 S.Amps.

EWAR Support

Intakt/Chameleon/Troiar

Head: 1 S. Amp, 2 SS or 2 ECM
Chassis: -
Legs: Evasive module, LWF

Commentary: If you get inside of 300m of the target you're doing it wrong. At 300m only mechs and pimped out T4 wasps can shoot you. Evasive module reduces your size to ~1m surface size, meaning even a Mech with Precision Firing 10 will have trouble hitting you with LOS in the equation.

TACKLE

Intakt/Chameleon

Head: 1/2 S Demob 0/1 L Demob (depending on preference), 1 Range Extender, 1 Velocity NEXUS
Chassis: -
Legs: 1 LWF

Commentary: Example; the vet tackler pilots in Perpetuum are moving at ~140kph with Demob at 300m+. This demob-range is completely outside of all light bot DPS, barring pimped T4 Waspish. Tackler pilots usually work in pairs or higher numbers, cycling demobs or supporting Zenith's.

EWAR GUNZ

Intakt/Chameleon/Troiar

Head: 1 S. Amp, OPTIONAL 1 EWAR module of choice/faction strenght
Chassis: 2 Faction Guns
Legs: 1 Small Rep, 1 LWF

Commentary: 5-10 of these can take out a heavy mech without problems, given enough time.

LOLSUPRAIS ASSAULT

Baphomet/Arbalest

Head: 2 S. Amps, 1 S Demob
Chassis: 5 Faction Guns
Legs: 2/3+ Medium Plates

Commentary: Great for kersploding speed-mechs. Once you demob them, either they'll die from your guns or they'll die from your explosion. Sometimes both if they're particularly stupid. Great fit for epiclulz/camping terminals/camping gates/etc.
 
Summary:

Thinking outside of the box is cool. But there's a reason for everything, and unlike EVE there isn't really any need to fill EVERY SINGLE SLOT on a robot.

One big no-no is trying to force bots into roles they're not meant to fulfill. Light bots just don't compare to light EWAR bots for tackling. You got 1 Head slot, and fitting a Demob on that usually means for a newbie player that your locking distance is 150m. For comparison, most Mechs will begin to shoot at you at 400m. Most assaults will begin shooting at you at 200m. And you have to get inside of 150m, keep that distance for 10 seconds to lock? That's one dead light bot.

Second big no-no is mixing universals, armor plates and LWF's. These can work fine on Mechs like Artemis that get a racial bonus to resists, but you're in a cheap assault/light bot. Your survival chance is determined by how fast you scuttle away/how much terrain you can use. Speed is king, terrain is king, and if you're going for a dirt-cheap fit then it doesn't make sense fitting a Universal which is worth more then your entire bot.

Third big no-no is mixing neuts/drainers with tackling. They work fine on secondary tackles with shields (Troiar), but on a primary tackle; the guy who pins it down for X time until gang gets there its pointless and counterproductive. Tackling = speed. Everything that doesn't directly (and positively!) affect Speed & Demob is irrelevant and unnecessary.

Also, armor plates are useless in fights unless youre "lolfighting". They really are. Useless. Completely totally and utterly.

Besides, you have Alexander now in NeX and I'm sure he'll explain all of this to you. He was M2S's fitting-designer, and was the first to roll-out the demob-Zenith. Listen to him and you'll go a long way. smile

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

yea, and tuners are almost always worthless too.  Just not worth the extra weight.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Syndic wrote:

long post with setups

now finaly something ... pity you ignore the robot bonuses on all but the assaults (hey troiar has actualy energy drain bonuses you know ?).

anyway s.demobs at 300m ? I think they have base range of about 100m (125 IIRC). How do you get them that far except on bonused bots ?

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

long post with setups

now finaly something ... pity you ignore the robot bonuses on all but the assaults (hey troiar has actualy energy drain bonuses you know ?).

what do bonuses matter, or even energy draining when you have no demob in your team?

Just because a bot has a bonus, doesnt mean you should roll with it.   You need to look at your entire squad not just focus on what bot has what bonus.

Thats the trouble with telling people about fits.. its taken way out of context.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Just like to point out also, since I was browsing the market, T3 demobs are cheap, about the price of t1 s.amp before espitium removal. Same with T3 lwfs. Even for new players this type of setup is affordable, although I suggest you use T1 until you build up some experience in the role.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Syndic wrote:

long post with setups

now finaly something ... pity you ignore the robot bonuses on all but the assaults (hey troiar has actualy energy drain bonuses you know ?).

anyway s.demobs at 300m ? I think they have base range of about 100m (125 IIRC). How do you get them that far except on bonused bots ?

None of the bonuses are ignored.

Troiar draining/neuting... It just doesn't work. Most mech pilots I fly with have Energy Management/Accumulator Expansion 8+, a Troiar does more good being a Remote Repairer (acc-regen bonus+) and even that is so-so compared to a Cameleon RR.

As for S Demobs... 150m T4 range + 30% from LR EW extension + ~25% EW NEXUS + 15% Range Extender and + (OPTIONAL) Mk2 EW optimal range increase... You'd be suprised. lol

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Syndic wrote:

As for S Demobs... 150m T4 range + 30% from LR EW extension + ~25% EW NEXUS + 15% Range Extender and + (OPTIONAL) Mk2 EW optimal range increase... You'd be suprised. lol

New players probably won't see this type of range, but the concept remains accurate. A ewar with evasive mod is going to get past a mech's range to demob it, even an assault is going to have trouble hitting ewar with evasive, doesn't need the full 300m to be effective. Going T2 evasive will make the fit easier, and not that much more expensive.

PIE can will put all this stuff on the market, if new players start buying it, we'll continue to make it available and cheaper.

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Re: What can a new player do in PVP? (Also fittings we used!)

Yes, I originally mentioned it as a comparison to newbies what the veteran tacklers in-game can do; as a guide of something to aim for if they're interested in tackling. smile

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