101 (edited by Winter Solstice 2011-07-28 15:22:28)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

(inserts argument for capitalistic beta corps who sell to alpha for NIC (wanting max profit so staying within competitive market ranges) here while also pointing out that no, we're not a beta corp yet)

----
I play MMOs. I need a signature which is deep, thought provoking, and devours bandwidth with the voracity of rabid weasels. It is also, by nature, vaguely sad with a tinge of my obvious internal, unfathomable loneliness. Like this, sad  , but at 1.3megs packed into 2 by 6 inches. ANIMATED.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

I wouldn't mind if there was an alternate recipe for the three epi required thingies that took more cash to produce. Seems like a good way to deal with it.

That way folks who can't get epi have the ability to produce stuff that uses it, albeit at higher cost than if they used epi. So not as profitable and more time consuming to get the required stuff, but at least an alternate path would exist.

That way we'd avoid the problem of needif a resource taken from an owne location to build the stuff necessary to take that location.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

I think you'll find that most Beta corps hoard any stuff they get as a direct result of being native to Beta.   There isnt a lot you need NIC for except for guarding against any future content.

Only reason why products are over priced on the market is because there is no perceived, standard value.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

AeonThePiglet wrote:

I wouldn't mind if there was an alternate recipe for the three epi required thingies that took more cash to produce. Seems like a good way to deal with it.

That way folks who can't get epi have the ability to produce stuff that uses it, albeit at higher cost than if they used epi. So not as profitable and more time consuming to get the required stuff, but at least an alternate path would exist.

That way we'd avoid the problem of needif a resource taken from an owne location to build the stuff necessary to take that location.


This will change prices of the "natural" epi.

If it cost's X to make the artificial epi, natural epi miners will set the price at X-1.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

105 (edited by Winter Solstice 2011-07-28 16:16:21)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Well there's more than 3 things that require Epi afaik (orhave it as a component) T1 ERPs come to mind, and there's 3 kinds of those.  When they do show up on the market currently they sell a 1.8 million, and sloooowly.

Being able to produce those at a lower cost (no epi) would have an impact.  I know at least 200 people who'd buy one of each kind, on bots that explode regularly. tongue

----
I play MMOs. I need a signature which is deep, thought provoking, and devours bandwidth with the voracity of rabid weasels. It is also, by nature, vaguely sad with a tinge of my obvious internal, unfathomable loneliness. Like this, sad  , but at 1.3megs packed into 2 by 6 inches. ANIMATED.

106 (edited by SmokeyIndustries 2011-07-28 16:39:21)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Norrdec wrote:

So either it's game breaking for you guys, or just barely enough to make a few things here and there. So which one is it Smokey? I can't really say on my own, because you are stating both at the same time.
It looks like someone took your apple and at first you shout at him that you are going to die from hunger because of that and then just state a fact that I would barely satisfy your needs (You didn't want that apple anyway).


Don't get me started on you again norrdec.

I was making a point that the mechanic isnt broken. You get very little espitium for the amount you have to farm. As I said before I spent 3 hours farming EW mobs and mobs that drop cargo/chassis scanners and I got around 300 espitium after recycling a lithus full of loot. That same 300 espitium I used to make 5 sensor amps. People keep talking about having "an easy way to get espitium on alpha" and how easy it is for alpha carebears. Mind you this was done with a 300k+ EP character. Obviously my 70% figure is for producing my own few modules -- which I stated earlier. The point here is, a corp of alpha dwellers with a guy with descent relation, and 10/10 recycling and high grade recycling could offset his costs A LITTLE for espitium ONLY.

Why does it feel like I'm explaining the same thing over and over to people that have no idea what they're talking about?

Reset each other yet?

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

I think ERP's are different because they are quite new to the game.  Its not so much the epi which has them priced high but the knowledge required to manufacture them.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Oh, btw... there's really not much point in discussing this any further, a very nice solution and comprimise has already been suggested.

I guess you could debate wether or not that's a good solution, but I suggest you read Arga's post again.

Reset each other yet?

109

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Winter -

Putting Esptium, in small qtys, into the fragments really isn't that hard of a decision.

If your making a large amount of prototypes and bots then your espitium needs are actually much greater then you can get by recycling anyway. For instance, a 1000 modules at max HGR is less then 4k esptitium, while 1 nexus prototype uses 3.5k (ish).

In a similar vien, each fragment would provide about 1 unit each. So unless you really needed some emergency esptitium, most bot producing corps will just keep them for those, while small corps that don't make bots have a secondary use.

The only thing it doesn't address, is if Epi based resources should be available on beta only. But as was already stated Alligor, which uses 99% of the epitron on the market because of the vast quantities need for heavy mechs, makes epi continue to be desireable and rare - and such continues the depenance on the beta areas.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

@Arga: Fragment refining I'm not so sure is a good idea. Protos are already barely cost effective for a wide range of goods, so putting significant extra pressure on the pricetag of the components ain't exactly a good idea.

Straight up transmutation would be a neater solution, and would also have the handy side effect of preventing future bottlenecks.

@Wossface: Ayup, epi will enjoy a supplementary relationship with the other minerals. If they get too rare it'll head up as people want more, and if they get too common it'll head down.

Not sure why you care what the price is, after all you guys don't use nic or whatever the expression is.

Winter Solstice wrote:

Well there's more than 3 things that require Epi afaik (orhave it as a component) T1 ERPs come to mind, and there's 3 kinds of those.  When they do show up on the market currently they sell a 1.8 million, and sloooowly.

Being able to produce those at a lower cost (no epi) would have an impact.  I know at least 200 people who'd buy one of each kind, on bots that explode regularly. tongue

As in basic components, not as in modules. I think there's only like three that refine into it.

111

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

AeonThePiglet wrote:

@Arga: Fragment refining I'm not so sure is a good idea. Protos are already barely cost effective for a wide range of goods, so putting significant extra pressure on the pricetag of the components ain't exactly a good idea.

could be, i just threw the idea out without really looking at the various perspectives.

There are 3-types of fragments - Damged, functional, and perfect.

Fragments always drop from npc's, but the functional and perfect are rarer. Currently, most farmers just leave them or delete them because their value is low; they're not worth hauling.

In most cases, you'll get 1 or 2 modules from ewar with espitium as a component, and a little more rarely from an assault. But on average (per 100 bots) it's 2 or 3 espitium per npc after recycling even with HGR extension.

So, it would be something like

Damaged fragement - 0
Functional fragement -1
Perfect fragement - 2

Prototyping for starters is very expensive, but there are the same (3) extension for ME as for mass production. So it's much much less expensive to build P's as characters advance.

So, there would be a decision to make for both farmers and producers, to sell the Func/perf or recycle them.

It would certainly raise the price of these fragments, but that cost would be born by the small producers since large corps can just farm them.

But, there could be an issue here.

Small producers, not new - just solo or 2/3 players, now have a dilema. To produce T2 items that require espitium, they need both fragments for the PT as well as the espitium from them. They either have to recycle the fragments for espitium and buy the fragments, or buy epitron and make espitium and use the fragments.

This sounds like it moves the decision to the individual. 'I hate beta and refuse to buy epitron', then they can recycle and buy framgents - or farm them. Or they can choose to buy epitron and make espitium and use the fragments directly.

I'm not sure of the drop rate of fragments, maybe it makes sense to only have it on functional for (2) units and not on perfect at all.

112 (edited by SmokeyIndustries 2011-07-28 20:15:50)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

for comparisons sake, i've been farming these mobs for an hour and a half, i have 172u of loot in the lithus.

634 damage common fragments
449 functional common fragments
239 perfect common fragments
596 numiqol damaged
475 "          " functional
273 "          " perfect.

So yeah... there should be plenty of fragments to go around (these were from 3rd star lights/light ewars). Considering you're only using fragments to make a prototype, which should be good for 20-50 modules, and even then you're not even using as many as I've gotten here.

Now, this is with a 300k+ ep combat pilot, with all t4 gear on a mk2 baphomet against blues that don't have thermal hardeners. Similiar results would probaly be obtained by 3-4 lower ep guys in baphomets.

Reset each other yet?

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Rule of thumb in our indy department is x10 the cost on market for a reasonably well traded item and you'll have the proto cost. That's already damn high.

I'd rather the cost was pushed onto Titan and similar alpha mats that can be transmuted into compounds otherwise based off epi. As the game gets older we're gonna need some kind of support mechanism for the alpha minerals, and an inefficient production alternative for epi based compounds (or whatever they're called) could be just the thing.

Again, it's beneficial to the game as a whole to have a viable large scale alternative to beta only minerals. Otherwise you end up with a situation where players who want to control a beta island need to control a beta island in order to get the resources they need in the quantities they need to build the hmechs they need to control the island. Making a few mods is easy to do with ninja mining. Making a fleet of hmechs is slightly harder. Allowing alpha corps to do that at higher cost would be fine and dandy.

It'd also do a lot of good for the open market if epi was no longer critical to all t2+ production, just a lot more efficient at it.

Like, I see nothing wrong with an alternative non-epi production route (for t2+ and mech+) that costs between 1.5 and 2 times as much nic in terms of materials used. I think that's a fair compromise. How do you judge it? Take a max skilled max geared miner, figure out the epi per time unit, figure out the amount of time units of mining for epi to build an item, double the number of time units required to mine the material (for that same miner) to produce it if you don't use epi. If that's not enough, keep increasing the time until it is.

So if it takes a single riv 24hrs to mine enough epi for a hmech, it should take 48 hrs for that same riv to pull it off on the non epi route. And if that's too cheap, 72hrs or 96hrs or more.

It's one thing to make beta profitable. It is a wholly other thing to make possible for a cartel to control the stuff necessary to take islands.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

I got a chance to listen to Winter on the podcast today.  She is right about the need for development of the game market beyond interal corp/alliance markets.  It would be a fundamental game changer.  Hopefully the devs will continue to adjust industry to help create said market.

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

AeonThePiglet wrote:

Rule of thumb in our indy department is x10 the cost on market for a reasonably well traded item and you'll have the proto cost. That's already damn high.

I'd rather the cost was pushed onto Titan and similar alpha mats that can be transmuted into compounds otherwise based off epi. As the game gets older we're gonna need some kind of support mechanism for the alpha minerals, and an inefficient production alternative for epi based compounds (or whatever they're called) could be just the thing.

Again, it's beneficial to the game as a whole to have a viable large scale alternative to beta only minerals. Otherwise you end up with a situation where players who want to control a beta island need to control a beta island in order to get the resources they need in the quantities they need to build the hmechs they need to control the island. Making a few mods is easy to do with ninja mining. Making a fleet of hmechs is slightly harder. Allowing alpha corps to do that at higher cost would be fine and dandy.

It'd also do a lot of good for the open market if epi was no longer critical to all t2+ production, just a lot more efficient at it.

Like, I see nothing wrong with an alternative non-epi production route (for t2+ and mech+) that costs between 1.5 and 2 times as much nic in terms of materials used. I think that's a fair compromise. How do you judge it? Take a max skilled max geared miner, figure out the epi per time unit, figure out the amount of time units of mining for epi to build an item, double the number of time units required to mine the material (for that same miner) to produce it if you don't use epi. If that's not enough, keep increasing the time until it is.

So if it takes a single riv 24hrs to mine enough epi for a hmech, it should take 48 hrs for that same riv to pull it off on the non epi route. And if that's too cheap, 72hrs or 96hrs or more.

It's one thing to make beta profitable. It is a wholly other thing to make possible for a cartel to control the stuff necessary to take islands.


You realize you're not making the arguement any better, and you just pissed off everyone who lives on beta (those cartels tongue). And yes, it can be done if you need to know how, im sure Mara and 62nd might let you in on a few tricks of the trade.

Reset each other yet?

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

SmokeyIndustries wrote:

Don't get me started on you again norrdec.

I was making a point that the mechanic isnt broken. You get very little espitium for the amount you have to farm. As I said before I spent 3 hours farming EW mobs and mobs that drop cargo/chassis scanners and I got around 300 espitium after recycling a lithus full of loot. That same 300 espitium I used to make 5 sensor amps. People keep talking about having "an easy way to get espitium on alpha" and how easy it is for alpha carebears. Mind you this was done with a 300k+ EP character. Obviously my 70% figure is for producing my own few modules -- which I stated earlier. The point here is, a corp of alpha dwellers with a guy with descent relation, and 10/10 recycling and high grade recycling could offset his costs A LITTLE for espitium ONLY.

Why does it feel like I'm explaining the same thing over and over to people that have no idea what they're talking about?

Yes. What Norrdec is telling you is that CIR's entire T1->T3 Alpha-side production of modules - most of which require Espitium, Alligor, etc - is funded mostly by recycling modules that drop on Alpha.

Just this morning I hauled over a LITHUS-LOAD of Espitium from Alpha to Beta, because of the influx from recycled mods! From a WEEK worth of farming! When our haulers are coming in from Beta, they are coming empty because there is nothing worth hauling for the factories!

So pls, lets get real. Yes, you can get Epriton directly at the Beta tit and suckle it out by the cartload, BUT yes, you can also fund a big part of your production by recycling modules.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Syndic wrote:
SmokeyIndustries wrote:

Don't get me started on you again norrdec.

I was making a point that the mechanic isnt broken. You get very little espitium for the amount you have to farm. As I said before I spent 3 hours farming EW mobs and mobs that drop cargo/chassis scanners and I got around 300 espitium after recycling a lithus full of loot. That same 300 espitium I used to make 5 sensor amps. People keep talking about having "an easy way to get espitium on alpha" and how easy it is for alpha carebears. Mind you this was done with a 300k+ EP character. Obviously my 70% figure is for producing my own few modules -- which I stated earlier. The point here is, a corp of alpha dwellers with a guy with descent relation, and 10/10 recycling and high grade recycling could offset his costs A LITTLE for espitium ONLY.

Why does it feel like I'm explaining the same thing over and over to people that have no idea what they're talking about?

Yes. What Norrdec is telling you is that CIR's entire T1->T3 Alpha-side production of modules - most of which require Espitium, Alligor, etc - is funded mostly by recycling modules that drop on Alpha.

Just this morning I hauled over a LITHUS-LOAD of Espitium from Alpha to Beta, because of the influx from recycled mods! From a WEEK worth of farming! When our haulers are coming in from Beta, they are coming empty because there is nothing worth hauling for the factories!

So pls, lets get real. Yes, you can get Epriton directly at the Beta tit and suckle it out by the cartload, BUT yes, you can also fund a big part of your production by recycling modules.


It sure is easy to say you do one thing in game. Then again, how do you go about proving it? Are you saying that you think it's too much espitium? Where do you guys farm at on alpha? You're not on tellesis farming, all I ever see there is miners. I bet next you're going to tell me that it's all from one guy, in a prometheus too right?

Reset each other yet?

118 (edited by Rodger Wilcoe 2011-07-28 22:16:13)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

AeonThePiglet wrote:

I wouldn't mind if there was an alternate recipe for the three epi required thingies that took more cash to produce. Seems like a good way to deal with it.

As I said earlier, two recipes. One "Efficient" and one "Inefficient".

SmokeyIndustries wrote:

I was making a point that the mechanic isnt broken.

Of course it isn't. You get exactly what you want from it.


Mind you this was done with a 300k+ EP character.

So since new players are not that well developed, why does it seem like you don't have a concern for new players but rather those with all this invested interest?


The point here is, a corp of alpha dwellers with a guy with descent relation, and 10/10 recycling and high grade recycling could offset his costs A LITTLE for espitium ONLY.

Well if it is only "A LITTLE" then it shouldn't be the huge sandbox breaking impact you make it out to be.

Why does it feel like I'm explaining the same thing over and over to people that have no idea what they're talking about?

Because it appears that your story changes each time you repeat it.

Nat4raya wrote:

sufficient for a independent player

While some wont, I see that as an issue.

i know positevilly this aint helping the newplayers

Why wouldn't it? New players wouldn't have the skills to exploit HGR. New players also wouldn't have the skills or resources to build T2+ equipment and bots efficiently.

To me it lowers the "bottom rung" so it is easier to new players.

SmokeyIndustries wrote:

I'm not trying to force you to stay on alpha.

No one is being forced to do anything, one single avenue is being taken away. There are still others such as the market you yourself mentioned.

I don't know what other MMO you're talking about, but if you're talking about EVE then you're sadly mistaken as EVE has a very large carebear population, and many who do not venture into null or lowsec at all. And their golems still have officer mods.

Because of that nifty market thing. Also in EVE there are many things you cannot get or build in protected space. Surely you would know that?

stop trying to force me to play the way you play.

So my opinion is "forcing" you to play my way? Would you like a tissue? How about constructing a mature argument instead of sounding like a whiny petulant child.

Sandbox has always meant freedom, and choice to me.

Oh no, one single choice has been taken away! The sandbox has been destroyed! You took my freedom away!

At most you'll get enough espitium from farming to build a few things here and there. It was already been nerfed since release.

If you are recycling high level stuff to make high level stuff then fine. Low level stuff should not be able to be simply recycled into high level stuff. In my opinion.

SmokeyIndustries wrote:

Oh, btw... there's really not much point in discussing this any further, a very nice solution and comprimise has already been suggested.

I guess you could debate wether or not that's a good solution, but I suggest you read Arga's post again.

You like that suggestion because it effectively changes nothing.

SmokeyIndustries wrote:

Now, this is with a 300k+ ep combat pilot, with all t4 gear on a mk2 baphomet against blues that don't have thermal hardeners. Similiar results would probaly be obtained by 3-4 lower ep guys in baphomets.

But what about the "new solo" people you have so much concern about?

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Damn bro, do that in PVP and you'll be soloing all of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VQhURMLPeQ

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Please dont be daft Smokey, you've spent what, 8 months in an alliance with CHAOS? I see them every night farming the mobs for the modules that give the best Espitium yield on recycling. You know as well as me this is so exploitable its not even funny.

Besides, not being able to get Espitium from recycling does NOT mean the skill is useless. Why shouldn't a combat player be able to recycle the modules he farms, and sell off the commodities on the market. Some of those commodities go for a pretty awesome NIC price, so thats nearly a triple-per-farm payout - kernels, plasma, and commodities.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

121 (edited by SmokeyIndustries 2011-07-29 03:58:53)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Syndic wrote:

Please dont be daft Smokey, you've spent what, 8 months in an alliance with CHAOS? I see them every night farming the mobs for the modules that give the best Espitium yield on recycling. You know as well as me this is so exploitable its not even funny.

Besides, not being able to get Espitium from recycling does NOT mean the skill is useless. Why shouldn't a combat player be able to recycle the modules he farms, and sell off the commodities on the market. Some of those commodities go for a pretty awesome NIC price, so thats nearly a triple-per-farm payout - kernels, plasma, and commodities.


Why is that an exploit? Because you say so? You didnt bother to prove yourself right about hauling lithus loads of it either.

Are we going to hear next about getting rid of noralgis from alpha, and then imentium and stermonit, and then liquizit? Of course not, because that's absurd. So is removing espitium from recycling. What does it matter if that's how Chaos supported or supports itself now? Mining epriton is still the best nic per hour thing you can do in the game, wether it's with 1 person or 10 people.

My 300k ehp refrences dont have anything to do with new people. I've been in game longer, and such am more efficient then new people. So is everyone else who's been in the game a week or a day or an hour then someone who starts right now. My efficiency I would estimate to be near that of 2 or 3 newer people in standard assaults, and alot of that is because of bot and gear. So, a small corp of 5 guys will out perform me solo in 1 bot, at mining, and at farming. Maybe I didn't state that simply enough for you to comprehend what I was trying to say.

I've been doing quite a bit of alpha farming and mining, and on some spawns I'm able to bring in more per hour in the form of nic then I am with mining an alpha ore. I won't go into specific numbers because some people's heads would explode in jealousy and rage. For most spawns, with selling plasma on a toon with lvl 9 tax reduction, recycling on a toon with 6/6 and 15% relation at a lvl 2, selling the kernels to the highest buy orders I'm still pulling in roughly the same nic per hour as for mining alpha island ores. That's in roughly the same nic investment in bots (t4 fitted baphomet mk2 + t4 sheilded lithus vs T4 fitted riveler mk2+sequer with t4 nexus), and my combat farming is much more risky then sitting semi-afk mining.

You're starting to sound like Nidhogg with your posts there Rodger. NeX might want to look into that. I'm trying not to break down and post a reply to every sentence you wrote about every sentence I wrote, and paraphrase with spin so that it'll look like I'm trying to win an arguement. On the interwebz.

Reset each other yet?

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Frankly all I'm really interested in looking for is an ignore button for you, Smokers. Do you read what you type or do you just sit there and hammer at the keys and pray that spell check will turn it into something vaguely resembling a coherent response?

As far as efficiency is concerned, we're all happy and you're practically wetting yourself with fear. What gives? You have OVER NINE THOUSAND EP. Shouldn't you be able to handle something this minor without a change of undies?

You could go out to one of the many abandoned betas and get some. Or call up your old amigoes. Or juggle sausages for all I care.

Alls I know is when we need our purple nurple we go out and get it and *** the consequences. We don't sit around killing npcs and lamely exploiting a poor recipe choice by the devs. And when we pvp, we'd like our t1 mods to use t1 ingredients and for them to sell at t1 prices.

123 (edited by Mammoth 2011-07-29 05:31:17)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

Seems like people aren't even reading what smokey says. I would have lost my temper long ago. He makes a coherent post, someone responds with a bunch of insults, he sifts through to find anything of substance to rebut, someone else responds with a bunch of insults and a little chestbeating. It doesn't do your argument any favours when you don't actually have anything to say to him.

Personally, I don't agree with him, but the more you guys derail with the ad hominem and irrelevancies about how some guys he knows make money etc, the more I try to find reasons to. roll

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

AeonThePiglet wrote:

Frankly all I'm really interested in looking for is an ignore button for you, Smokers. Do you read what you type or do you just sit there and hammer at the keys and pray that spell check will turn it into something vaguely resembling a coherent response?

As far as efficiency is concerned, we're all happy and you're practically wetting yourself with fear. What gives? You have OVER NINE THOUSAND EP. Shouldn't you be able to handle something this minor without a change of undies?

You could go out to one of the many abandoned betas and get some. Or call up your old amigoes. Or juggle sausages for all I care.

Alls I know is when we need our purple nurple we go out and get it and *** the consequences. We don't sit around killing npcs and lamely exploiting a poor recipe choice by the devs. And when we pvp, we'd like our t1 mods to use t1 ingredients and for them to sell at t1 prices.

What's really funny, is you guys are the ones I'm trying to look out for here. Sooner or later you'll be in my shoes if you decide to stick around.

Reset each other yet?

125 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-07-29 06:21:27)

Re: Indy Changes: "Replace" Epriton in t1.

AeonThePiglet wrote:

I wouldn't mind if there was an alternate recipe for the three epi required thingies that took more cash to produce. Seems like a good way to deal with it.

That way folks who can't get epi have the ability to produce stuff that uses it, albeit at higher cost than if they used epi. So not as profitable and more time consuming to get the required stuff, but at least an alternate path would exist.

That way we'd avoid the problem of needif a resource taken from an owne location to build the stuff necessary to take that location.

Lol, didn't thought it can happen but ... with this I could live wink

Beta people want to much for Epri ... np, Alpha people use the alternative no-Epri recipe.
Beta people can't sell their overpriced Epri and go back to normal price ... fine, Alpha people buy Epri again.

And still ... there is absolut NO NEED to change anythink in recipt for T1 moduls!
All that is needed, is to tweaked the MEs for the tiers so you can get good results quick for T1 but need a full build Producer for T4(p).

WHY the hell do you guys allways want to NERF other? Removing high end Materials IS a nerf to the hole Recycling Industrie which is NOT needed at all!

Syndic wrote:

Why shouldn't a combat player be able to recycle the modules he farms

No combat player will ever spent that much EP into Recycle+HQRecycle+Repair. It's a job like Miner, Producer, Farmer ... it's called "the Recycler". If you want to max it, you'll need around a full month of EP. Normaly it's an additional path of Producers.
Tell me one combat player, who is willing to spend that amount of EP into a not-combat Extension.

PS: actual it's not a month but 4 month of skilling ... hell, NO combat pilot would ever do that! Even less as they need Industries+Sience as attributs!