Topic: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Do the 'Commune Corps' place sell orders on the open market?

This is something I've been wondering about for a while and the apparent stagnation in the game market could be greatly alleviated by Corps with huge stockpiles of goods actually selling some of them.

I know people say NIC is worthless but this is supposed to be a free market system.  I'm sure the Devs are aware of this and will factor it into further game developments.

So, to all the Commune Corps; do you place Corporate sanctioned sell orders?

Sociorum, inimicos, omnes

-:does speak for NSA on the forums:-

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Mostly, No.
There is no benefit selling on the open market.
A small corps of 20+ people can be total self sufficient.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Alexander wrote:

Mostly, No.
There is no benefit selling on the open market.
A small corps of 20+ people can be total self sufficient.

Its a popular misconception driven by the top corps in the game that NIC is useless and they dont need it. In fact all of these corps rely on NIC and generally use either higher tier tech sales or the selling of epriton to facilitate the buying of minerals so that they cut down the amount of time it takes them to produce.

Yes a small corp of 20 can be self sufficient if they work at it, but two men producing for a corp of 50 can be self sufficient with the right tech base and access to epriton.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Plasma is more then enough to fund ore buy-orders.

In a communist corp with proper production laid out, you need all the ore you can get, thus you need to be mining constantly & consistently as well as buying & hauling off the market.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Plasma takes ratting and ratting is a waste of time and effort

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

This game was designed as game, where market should have an important role: newbies buys t1 assets for pew pew, large corps sells what they have and buying what they dont have etc. If you talking that your corp is self-sufficient now, i can agree because my corp have same situation.

Considering that different islands have different ammounts of raws, considering that titan and epriton is growing not everywhere, considering that self-sufficient corporations will works their way only if they will control large ammounts of land, we can imply that when population will rize up to the few thousandths online, major number of corporations will have to exchange stuff what they have in abundant amounts, and this exchange could be done with intermediate currency (NIC).

I'm not good in economics, but i think that totally encapsulated corporations will not succeed, like a totally open corporations. The intended balance of this game pushing us to an intermediate state of corporation, where communal and capitalistic principles closely tied and balanced. Again: only if game population will be high enough.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Firstly, pretty much anything can be bought with NIC, so NIC is definitely powerful.

Secondly, self-sufficient corps who do never interact with the market will always suffer from low efficiency. That is not saying they can't do a lot of stuff, but they could always do even more stuff if they leveraged what they had more.

8 (edited by Drahkar 2011-07-24 15:06:13)

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Jita wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Mostly, No.
There is no benefit selling on the open market.
A small corps of 20+ people can be total self sufficient.

Its a popular misconception driven by the top corps in the game that NIC is useless and they dont need it. In fact all of these corps rely on NIC and generally use either higher tier tech sales or the selling of epriton to facilitate the buying of minerals so that they cut down the amount of time it takes them to produce.

Yes a small corp of 20 can be self sufficient if they work at it, but two men producing for a corp of 50 can be self sufficient with the right tech base and access to epriton.


Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Firstly, pretty much anything can be bought with NIC, so NIC is definitely powerful.

Secondly, self-sufficient corps who do never interact with the market will always suffer from low efficiency. That is not saying they can't do a lot of stuff, but they could always do even more stuff if they leveraged what they had more.

About effing time. I thought I was alone realizing that NIC is far from useless. NIC will be useless the day there is absolutely nothing on the market, ever.

AXE JOKE ECORP N-A CIR

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Drahkar wrote:
Jita wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Mostly, No.
There is no benefit selling on the open market.
A small corps of 20+ people can be total self sufficient.

Its a popular misconception driven by the top corps in the game that NIC is useless and they dont need it. In fact all of these corps rely on NIC and generally use either higher tier tech sales or the selling of epriton to facilitate the buying of minerals so that they cut down the amount of time it takes them to produce.

Yes a small corp of 20 can be self sufficient if they work at it, but two men producing for a corp of 50 can be self sufficient with the right tech base and access to epriton.


Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Firstly, pretty much anything can be bought with NIC, so NIC is definitely powerful.

Secondly, self-sufficient corps who do never interact with the market will always suffer from low efficiency. That is not saying they can't do a lot of stuff, but they could always do even more stuff if they leveraged what they had more.

About effing time. I thought I was alone realizing that NIC is far from useless. NIC will be useless the day there is absolutely nothing on the market, ever.


+1

I think the big misconception to the larger corps is that they can make more nic an hour therfor the worth is less. I hate to use that other game as an example but when I had tens of billions of is, it really became less of value to me al ost worthless as I squandered my fortune pvping. Very similar in perpetuum I've heard reports of twenty million nic an hour, I think that may be a bit far fetched but even half that is a *** ton of pvping assaults and ewar bots. Three hprs and I am now just pvping for a week unless your really that unlucky to run into a lot of camps and lose them.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

NIC is not useless. Asking more corps to sell on the open market is useless. You could sell items to the market, buy minerals and produce more but the more people that do that then the smaller your profit margins shrink.

NIC is needed for production, repairs and upkeep. It's by no means useless but to a 20+ man corp they can produce their own NIC. Ratting is not a waste of time due to the high number and low drop rate of decoders. Ratting would not be worth doing if it only gave NIC but it gives minerals too from recycling which a small corps can easily live off.

If I can live off recycling alone then an entire corp can up-scale it and do the same.

NIC is just the representation of value to an item. There is a lot of NIC flowing into the economy and very little changing hands. That's the issue. Every uses NIC but everyone can get enough for themselves.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

If the price is right, any item will eventually sell or be bought, for NIC.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

NIC will probably be worth a lot when they add base building and all the structures cost NIC to buy from the market.

13 (edited by Gharl Incognito 2011-07-24 19:15:39)

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Alexander wrote:

NIC is just the representation of value to an item. There is a lot of NIC flowing into the economy and very little changing hands. That's the issue. Every uses NIC but everyone can get enough for themselves.

This is the crux of the issue.  NIC is a resource with both infinite supply and infinite demand.  Unfortunatly the former outstrips the latter; this leads inexorably to an inflation spiral. 

How can the 'demand' for NIC be imaginativly and acceptably increased?

EDIT: yes I'm aware of the planned buildings.  What else can be done?

Sociorum, inimicos, omnes

-:does speak for NSA on the forums:-

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

PVP more. That will solve all inflation problems. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Gharl Incognito wrote:

This is the crux of the issue.  NIC is a resource with both infinite supply and infinite demand.  Unfortunatly the former outstrips the latter; this leads inexorably to an inflation spiral. 

How can the 'demand' for NIC be imaginativly and acceptably increased?

EDIT: yes I'm aware of the planned buildings.  What else can be done?

As an economist, I really can't make sense of this.

Inflation can easily be fought through NIC sinks, and so far we have not experienced that much inflation in-game.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

The best "natural" NIC sink is PVP. Encouraging PVP & Territory Control will make NIC more relevant. smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

True, I'm all in for you guys blowing up more stuff!

But to clarify, I don't at all agree with the infinite demand-supply of NIC idea. Rather inflation is managed through inflows and outflows of NIC to the economy, something which can easily be changed if inflation at some point becomes a real problem.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Syndic wrote:

The best "natural" NIC sink is PVP. Encouraging PVP & Territory Control will make NIC more relevant. smile

How would you suggest encouraging PvP? It is already desirable for the players who want it.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Syndic wrote:

The best "natural" NIC sink is PVP. Encouraging PVP & Territory Control will make NIC more relevant. smile

Syndic wrote:

PVP more. That will solve all inflation problems. lol

Its too bad your corps political doctrine is diametrically opposed to the promotion of more pvp. Having massive numbers of allies and far more EP than the majority of those you oppose. If you beat your head against a wall sooner or later this grows old. The same goes for being blobbed by large numbers of enemies. If a group comes out in 10-15 Assaults, you meet them with 15+ light/heavy Mechs supported with Ewars. Fighting and losing is one thing, having NO chance what so ever is a horse of another color.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

True, I'm all in for you guys blowing up more stuff!

But to clarify, I don't at all agree with the infinite demand-supply of NIC idea. Rather inflation is managed through inflows and outflows of NIC to the economy, something which can easily be changed if inflation at some point becomes a real problem.

I understand your reasoning and it is correct in theory.  The reason for the question was to pre-empt one of the most common issues in MMO games.  NIC sinks are always an option but in a persistant, player driven world the idea of an arbitrary sink to curb inflation may not go over well with the games community; who votes for higher taxes?

I perhaps should have placed more emphasis on this in the original post.

As to PvP as an individual NIC sink Syndic; works provided you're not a commune corp. Otherwise it becomes negligable as the NIC sink equates to the cost of production and is removed from the games wider dynamic market.

Sociorum, inimicos, omnes

-:does speak for NSA on the forums:-

21 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-07-25 07:25:45)

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Syndic wrote:

The best "natural" NIC sink is PVP. Encouraging PVP & Territory Control will make NIC more relevant. smile

Wrong.

The NIC you use to buy new pewpew stuff will just be transfared from you to your producer. Just a very small amount will be "destroyed" by NPC production cost.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Syndic wrote:

The best "natural" NIC sink is PVP. Encouraging PVP & Territory Control will make NIC more relevant. smile

I'm sorry, but you are either just making this *** up on purpose or because you are clueless. PvP does not remove NIC from economy. If anything, it actually injects NIC because of insurance payouts.

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Jack Jombardo wrote:

Wrong.

The NIC you use to buy new pewpew stuff will just be transfared from you to your producer. Just a very small amount will be "destroyed" by NPC production cost.

Mioku wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are either just making this *** up on purpose or because you are clueless. PvP does not remove NIC from economy. If anything, it actually injects NIC because of insurance payouts.

A small amount will be destroyed by paying for repairing modules by the victors, a small amount will be destroyed by buying new stuff (market fees, production fees, etc). Also, bear in mind its a 4-stage production for T4 modules so the actual production cost goes up quite a bit.

What it does is generate more movement on the market, which in turn encourages producers to buy more ore to satisfy a rising demand, which encourages miners to offer more ore for sale to satisfy rising producer demand, which encourages PVPers to roam and try to kill miners, which encourages PVPers to protect their miners, which leads us straight back to PVP encouraging producers to cater to a rising demand for modules.

That is just for "PVP", this would also encourage PVE as producers and prototypers would have more need for decoders, kernels, fragments etc.

The insurance injects a "certain" amount of NIC, essentially narrowing the amount needing to be grinded before someone is re-equipped for PVP.

Best thing? This "NIC sink" is already implemented in-game. Instead of trying to invent warm water, all the Devs need to do is stimulate PVP.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

Syndic wrote:

A small amount will be destroyed by paying for repairing modules by the victors, a small amount will be destroyed by buying new stuff (market fees, production fees, etc). Also, bear in mind its a 4-stage production for T4 modules so the actual production cost goes up quite a bit.

What it does is generate more movement on the market, which in turn encourages producers to buy more ore to satisfy a rising demand, which encourages miners to offer more ore for sale to satisfy rising producer demand, which encourages PVPers to roam and try to kill miners, which encourages PVPers to protect their miners, which leads us straight back to PVP encouraging producers to cater to a rising demand for modules.

That is just for "PVP", this would also encourage PVE as producers and prototypers would have more need for decoders, kernels, fragments etc.

The insurance injects a "certain" amount of NIC, essentially narrowing the amount needing to be grinded before someone is re-equipped for PVP.

Best thing? This "NIC sink" is already implemented in-game. Instead of trying to invent warm water, all the Devs need to do is stimulate PVP.

Jack Jombardo wrote:

Wrong.

Mioku wrote:

I'm sorry you are clueless

AXE JOKE ECORP N-A CIR

25 (edited by Winter Solstice 2011-07-25 15:28:19)

Re: Communal Corps & Sell Orders

OP: NeX puts buy orders on the open market, at least, not *just* corp.

If you're a bored miner chat with me and maybe we can arrange an industrial deal.
\
Edit: oops, checked your corp tag, I"m pre-coffee - so prolly not bored.  But you see my point I hope smile

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