Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Styx wrote:

put back

This.

big_smile big_smile big_smile

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

LLIAXTEP wrote:

Now usual price of 2-3 tier kernels is about 30k. Before nerf it was less than 10k (usually it was possible to buy it for 5-6k).

UPD: Moreover, now it is almost impossible to buy any industrial robot kernels.

78 (edited by Arga 2011-05-04 18:26:01)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Look at the prices for 1st star light kernels, they are down to under the pre infinte buy order, and are plentiful. This trend is likely to continue now that availabilty for higher level kernels has been opend up to non-beta players on alpha-II; combat players should be taking advantage of the higher prices by farming and selling them while the price makes it worthwhile even at 50% drop rate.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Kernel drop rate might be down, but plasma should be putting plenty of nic in your wallet... If you need kernels try using some of that plasma money to put up some reasonable buy orders on the public markets, problem solved.

P.S. - If your buy orders are not getting filled... The market has deemed them to be 'not reasonable'.

"You're living in a parallel universe." ~Syndic

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

I agree, revert it, the current system is far worse than it was before. Remove plasma, inflation is bad enough as it is, without giving out free nic with every kill.

81 (edited by Purgatory 2011-07-21 22:14:22)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Arga wrote:

Look at the prices for 1st star light kernels, they are down to under the pre infinte buy order, and are plentiful. This trend is likely to continue now that availabilty for higher level kernels has been opend up to non-beta players on alpha-II; combat players should be taking advantage of the higher prices by farming and selling them while the price makes it worthwhile even at 50% drop rate.

Price of 1st star kernals is irrevelent, the rest of the kernals have doubled, even tripled in price. The current kernal situation does not work.

I'm speaking as someone who can already make many T4 items including almost everything that comes from green and yellow kernals of all sizes. I can not stand killing 3 tough npcs in a row and receiving kernals from none of them. I throw huge amounts of nic into buy kernal buy orders but people just arn't selling them. If I can't buy kernals, even for the crazy high prices I offer, then what hope does the non rich player have?

Game is failing. Kernal drop rate to 50% nerf was uncalled for and totally unexpected. Players oppose it, why hasn't this been reverted it already?

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

I would agree that the 50% kernal nerf hit quite hard to industrials, specially soloist. I don't really know if this is a long term plan by AC to introduce a more frequent spawn PVE system or any way to make it easier to farm kernals.

As I understand the reason the kernal nerf came as result of a too "easy" system to access T4 gear which should be rare. By the time many get to T4 stage without the nerf, shouldn't we have T5 already introduced? Or just make it even more resource intensive.

And yes the plasma inflation is hurting the game. Although there are more players ,bots are much more expensive now. Players are less inclined to use the market and build stuff themselves instead.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

well, i wont blame the kernel droprate nerf for that.

combine those facts:
1. recent events have shown that only 1 agent in corp with 100% research is a BAAAD idea
2. new stuff is always added to existing kernels knowledge base

so, tell me why should i sell kernels on market?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Annihilator wrote:

well, i wont blame the kernel droprate nerf for that.

combine those facts:
1. recent events have shown that only 1 agent in corp with 100% research is a BAAAD idea
2. new stuff is always added to existing kernels knowledge base

so, tell me why should i sell kernels on market?

I don't care what you do. I know from experience that people were selling kernals of all sizes and tiers back when the drop rate was 100% and that has practically completely stopped since the drop rate was halved.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Purgatory wrote:

Price of 1st star kernals is irrevelent, the rest of the kernals have doubled, even tripled in price. The current kernal situation does not work.

I'm speaking as someone who can already make many T4 items including almost everything that comes from green and yellow kernals of all sizes.

So, because you no longer need these, they aren't relevant?

Please look at the WHOLE system and not just the top-end when your suggesting changes.

Why has the top-end pricing doubled/Trippled? Because 8 months into the game, there are now more independant producers with the NIC to purchase those same kernels.

AC doesn't WANT everyone making T4 stuff, they didn't just nerf kernels, they added Briochit and made epitron an ore instead of a liquid.

Your not fighting me, your fighting the Dev's on this, and right now I'm not seeing any changes that would indicate they want tiered items to be any more accessable.

The fact that as a small or solo producer, you "can already make many T4 items including almost everything that comes from green and yellow kernals of all sizes" only 9 months after the game was released, is not working in your favor.

I would say that as a non-beta corp, if you can complete the tree in a year, that's about right.

70% of the population is still less than a month old. NeX is not a communist corp, when they get to beta Island, I'll bet you that the number of beta-kernels on the market jumps dramatically. Simply when 70% of the current population is capable of farming the kernel's you need, they'll become more available.

I've said before, and maybe even in this thread "The game can't be balanced around the players on the leading edge."

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Well, with the reduction in the ability of the players to learn the should have at least enabled a player to direct their knowledge.

So, say, you get a whole huge tech tree, and each kernel has a tech valuation type.  Let's use an off-the-cuff example:
1-2 star - 'Blue' tech tree (t1/t2, small)
3-4 star - 'green' tech tree (t3, t1/t2 medium)
5 star - 'purple' tech tree (t4, t3/t4 medium)

Thus the kernels can only be used to unlock their tier of research, but you can select any item in that tech tree to apply some or all of your kernel research to.  Specialized tech, as it were.  Thus industrialists can focus on, say, 'small/medium' lasers & cells, and not worry about firearms or missiles, leaving that tech tree open to another industrialist.

87 (edited by Arga 2011-07-21 23:11:20)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Bug, something similar to that is in place.

Light/Assaults give upto T4 small

Mech-Hmech give upto t4 medium

Specific ammo's are by faction kernel.

Putting Medium items in the light bot tree would go against making it difficult to obtain.

Edit: Also, putting most T4 gear into the 5th star would actually make it worse then it is now.

88 (edited by Purgatory 2011-07-21 23:36:20)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Arga wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Price of 1st star kernals is irrevelent, the rest of the kernals have doubled, even tripled in price. The current kernal situation does not work.

I'm speaking as someone who can already make many T4 items including almost everything that comes from green and yellow kernals of all sizes.

So, because you no longer need these, they aren't relevant?

Please look at the WHOLE system and not just the top-end when your suggesting changes.

Why has the top-end pricing doubled/Trippled? Because 8 months into the game, there are now more independant producers with the NIC to purchase those same kernels.

AC doesn't WANT everyone making T4 stuff, they didn't just nerf kernels, they added Briochit and made epitron an ore instead of a liquid.

Your not fighting me, your fighting the Dev's on this, and right now I'm not seeing any changes that would indicate they want tiered items to be any more accessable.

The fact that as a small or solo producer, you "can already make many T4 items including almost everything that comes from green and yellow kernals of all sizes" only 9 months after the game was released, is not working in your favor.

I would say that as a non-beta corp, if you can complete the tree in a year, that's about right.

70% of the population is still less than a month old. NeX is not a communist corp, when they get to beta Island, I'll bet you that the number of beta-kernels on the market jumps dramatically. Simply when 70% of the current population is capable of farming the kernel's you need, they'll become more available.

I've said before, and maybe even in this thread "The game can't be balanced around the players on the leading edge."

I'm not a solo producer, my corporation has more than 1 person in it.  I've done so well because I farmed T5 kernals in the first month or two of launch, gained access to T4 and made a lot of NIC from being the only producer of certain T4 modules. I then re-invested the nic into kernals while the drop rate was still 100% and completed green mech level research.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Purgatory wrote:

I'm not a solo producer, my corporation has more than 1 person in it.  I've done so well because I farmed T5 kernals in the first month or two of launch, gained access to T4 and made a lot of NIC from being the only producer of certain T4 modules. I then re-invested the nic into kernals while the drop rate was still 100% and completed green mech level research.

OK.

I think that's awesome that you were able to get a jump start before they changed the drop rate.

Any reason why you couldn't go farm the remaining? Seems like if you could farm T5 6 months ago, should be much easier to do now. Even at 50% drop rate it would be faster then waiting for them to show up on the market.

90 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-07-22 05:00:19)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

I play since about 3 weeks.
- 1st+2st light DONE blue+green
- 1st+2st assault DONE blue+green
- gray drones DONE
- working on 3st+4st star light with some T3 mods allready finished
- found some Mech spots I can do solo, many I can do with the corp
- corp main producer working on 4st HMech green+blue allready

All after 3 weeks.
My extensions (and the one of my corp mates) are FAR behind the research level we are working on. If we can held this resear speed, half the corp can produce T4 med stuff LOOOOONG before we can actual use the stuff or produce it effizient smile.

So what's wrong again with the drob rate?

PS: we are "feeding" 6+ Research Agents atm. Finished Kernals are eaten by miners, haulers or even full time fighters who will very likely never do a singel research job *g*.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

I'm indifferent but worth noting, NIC not only has less use, it has now doubled. I get 500 Plasma per 10 Level 1 kernals. 5 Bots, 4 tech levels 4 variants 5 x 4 x 4 and 300 or so of each? Tthat's alot of plasma and alot of NIC that doubled when the G key gets hit due to this "nerf". Just in Plasma.

The thing is, as long as I am playing I am going to do it anyway. Its content, it's what I am supposed to do. I'm sure this will get me a few flames but I might have left the kernal drops as is at 1:1 and scaled research back by 25%

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

There is nothing wrong with kernel drop rate.
The issue is with the corporations that require the research. Each researcher does need a lot of kernels to research but they're not impossible to get UNLESS you're not willing to go to beta islands and farm them in robots acctually worth some money.

There is nothing wrong with the way things are but it has always been the case that no sane person would sell high level kernels to someone else they don't know. In this game you need to build up trust with other people and sign special deals. Remember EVE before invention. T4 isn't something for everyone.. It's rare and it's expensive. The truth behind T4 is that a larger quantity of high skills players or worse fit robots will still kill you. Items don't make up for stupidity or a large different in extensions. (Not having Navigation trained above 5)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Jack Jombardo wrote:

I play since about 3 weeks.
- 1st+2st light DONE blue+green
- 1st+2st assault DONE blue+green
- gray drones DONE
- working on 3st+4st star light with some T3 mods allready finished
- found some Mech spots I can do solo, many I can do with the corp
- corp main producer working on 4st HMech green+blue allready

All after 3 weeks.
My extensions (and the one of my corp mates) are FAR behind the research level we are working on. If we can held this resear speed, half the corp can produce T4 med stuff LOOOOONG before we can actual use the stuff or produce it effizient smile.

So what's wrong again with the drob rate?

PS: we are "feeding" 6+ Research Agents atm. Finished Kernals are eaten by miners, haulers or even full time fighters who will very likely never do a singel research job *g*.

You think it's easy on assaults? It's easy to kill 3-4 assaults per minute for hours and end. Wait until you're doing mech T3/T4 and then see how you feel.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Arga wrote:

Bug, something similar to that is in place.

Light/Assaults give upto T4 small

Mech-Hmech give upto t4 medium

Specific ammo's are by faction kernel.

Putting Medium items in the light bot tree would go against making it difficult to obtain.

Edit: Also, putting most T4 gear into the 5th star would actually make it worse then it is now.

Yes, yes, I know... it was a basic suggestion.
Suppose I want to focus on say... just armor modules, which research by flavor from each faction, but I don't want to waste my research on guns.   Since they've gimped research speed, putting me already behind those who have it all already and doubling my time to catch up while they dominate the market, then why not the option to let me focus on a specific area of research, lowering the total number of kernels I need rather than forcing everything down the old research gullet before progress can be made toward the next level.

Also, I've got a question:
Tier 1 light bots give X research, and I was told that i can use tier 1 assault, mech, and heavy kernels for the same research ends.    What, then, does a tier 1 assault kernel give me over a light besides research on that faction's assault level mech?  Why would I even care about researching a bot schematic when I can just snag one off the market, reverse it with a high end decryptor, and build my own?

95 (edited by Arga 2011-07-22 18:54:00)

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

The 'tree' means that you have to get the previous levels done before you can do the advanced ones.

The bot reseach is just part of the tree, and it was relevant when they were first introduced. Like the Lithus, someone had to prototype and produce them to seed the market. After that point, it's not worth prototyping as you say.

There are some items that are specific to lights and some to assaults, but they also share many items in the tree; Armor is assault only while LWF are lights only. Someone has probably mapped out the tree, but they aren't sharing yet.

The same is true for mech kernels, if you don't have small miner modules researched, mech kernels will apply to those before getting to Medium modules of the same tier. So if you have T3 small, then you can research up to T3 medium. This is my personal experience so far, and may NOT be true for ALL modules.

Edit: If you have access to large numbers of Mech kernels then you'll progress faster, as they give more % for small's, but if your buying kernels, I highly suggest using lights as much as possible, even over assault.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

As much as I dislike Syndic, I can't argue with this. The game is grind heavy enough as it is. And it was already inhumanly difficult to max out research before the changes.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

You can never dislike me as much as I dislike you, but it is good that we agree on certain issues present in-game.

Big big shame this 50% kernel drop was allowed to stay in-game for this long. Reverting it now would be giving a big middle-finger to all corps that pushed through it and grinded their kernels. It should have been reverted the day it was implemented.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

Or at least made more probable to drop the kernels.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

well, i would care a *** if i could reach t4 research in a reasonable time or not, if those T4 items would not be necessary for the freedom of different robot builds.

t4 is the best choice for almost all aspects, even the little added mass doesn't matter. Most builds simply do not work without T4 (ERP Tank, shield tank, long range dps, longrange Ewar, high-speed, high-dps...)

So much whining about "CPU/Reaktor" extensions also enabled that you can fit your heavy mech with T4 only equip before even maxing out your fitting extensions, without having to rely on CPU or Reactor modules. THAT is WRONG.

do not blame the Kernel research that you cannot reach that tech, blame the bad balance between the Tiers of equipment.

and see my earlier post: new equipment is always added to existing kernels. thats wrong too. This will slow down newer players research even more after each patch that adds new items, and also allows older corps to save old kernels and get instant access to new stuff.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Revert the kernel nerf.

If they thought research was being completed too fast, why did they add observers?