Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

nah, you can dig up the topics, i should have written somehwere here in this forum something like "grophos will rule the battlefield" short after release, inbetween the posts where some prominent m2s members complained how missiles suck in pvp because thei got stripped of 10m range from ballistics missiles.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

127 (edited by Xyberviri 2011-07-15 18:41:26)

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

AgY wrote:

missiles AP usage * 10

time 10..... really.... man you must hate pestal bots allot.

I could understand + 10% not X 10

Also Everyone needs to remember that a Small change in PvP Mechanics could be a large change in PvE mechanics and those players will start to complain.. allot

128

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

They use 1 AP (Light) and 2 AP (Medium) no matter which Tier. While EM-Guns use
3-5 AP (light) and 30-40 AP (Medium).

*10 is still ~half the AP a EM-Gun needs. Has nothing todo with hate wink Simple mathematics.

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

AgY wrote:

They use 1 AP (Light) and 2 AP (Medium) no matter which Tier. While EM-Guns use
3-5 AP (light) and 30-40 AP (Medium).

*10 is still ~half the AP a EM-Gun needs. Has nothing todo with hate wink Simple mathematics.

Maybe we should also double missile dps, and halve its weight. In fact, why don't we just make all weapons exactly the same? Then it's all fair and nobody can complain. cool

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

got a better idea - why not remove the terrain ?

think this topic has either come to an end or needs heavy moderation

topic was Turret heavy mech vs. Gropho, focused on the robot bonus, not about the weapons

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

DEV Calvin wrote:

There are some very good points listed in here and we agree that some changes would be useful. Our main concern is the accumulator instability of the Mesmer and the Seth with the native weapons mainly for PvE applications and the versatility of the shield Gropho at both short and long ranges. Please note here, that the ERP armor as an option was not discussed and is a very good option for these mechs. The inconsistency of the bonuses through the mech lines is also hurting the anal retentive parts of our personalities.

So here is a change proposition package, please discuss:

Seth:

  • Shield absorption -» 5% armor resist / lvl

  • Armor amount decrease to compensate the resist bonus

  • ~15% medium laser accumulator usage decrease

  • Base speed increase to 39.6

Gropho:

  • Shield absorption bonus -» 5% accumulator recharge, in line with other Pelistal

  • Accumulator capacity decrese to compensate for the recharge bonus

Mesmer:

  • Falloff bonus -» -5% magnetic weapon accu usage/lvl

  • Base speed increase to 44.8

Yagel, Arbalest, Kain:

  • Falloff bonus -» -5% magnetic weapon accu usage/lvl

All turret robots:

  • Increase of firing height to get better line of sight

Just a slightly modified suggestion in case people end up preffering this :

Seth :
-Change shield bonus to 5% resists/level
-Increase base speed slightly (your value of 39.4 seems fine, definately not more)
-Reduce AP usage for all medium lasers by 20%

Gropho :
-Change shield bonus to 5% AP recharge if most Gropho pilots prefer this, if not leave the shield bonus.
-Increase medium ballistic and compact missile damage by about 5%.
-Increase COMPACT missile range slightly.

Mesmer :
-Change 5% falloff bonus to 10% falloff bonus. Afterall, falloff is definately not as useful as a same amount of optimal so 10% would be fair. Should carry over to all Nuimqol.
-Increase falloff on all magnetic weapons by about 50%
-Decrease AP use on medium magnetic weapons by 10%
-Increase base speed to 44.8 as you suggested.

All turrets :
-Increase firing height.

All firearms :
-Increase AP usage SIGNIFICANTLY! Leaving them as they are currently makes it hard to balance any turret bot in regard to their accumulator and their repair-tank, due to the huge contrast in AP usage between firearms and the other 2 turret types. Their AP usage should be close to that of magnetic weapons (only slightly lower).

Note that the changes to medium magnetics might make the already-powerful Kain slightly too powerful. Perhaps reducing its speed VERY slightly would compensate.

Also with my suggested changes I think the Gropho would not need a nerf (heavy mechs in general really don't need any nerfs in my opinion) so its shield bonus should only be changed if the current Gropho pilots think it would be preferable.

Keep in mind I am just brainstorming, modifications and criticism is welcome.

AXE JOKE ECORP N-A CIR

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

DEV Calvin wrote:

There are some very good points listed in here and we agree that some changes would be useful. Our main concern is the accumulator instability of the Mesmer and the Seth with the native weapons mainly for PvE applications and the versatility of the shield Gropho at both short and long ranges. Please note here, that the ERP armor as an option was not discussed and is a very good option for these mechs. The inconsistency of the bonuses through the mech lines is also hurting the anal retentive parts of our personalities.

So here is a change proposition package, please discuss:

Seth:

  • Shield absorption -» 5% armor resist / lvl

  • Armor amount decrease to compensate the resist bonus

  • ~15% medium laser accumulator usage decrease

  • Base speed increase to 39.6

Gropho:

  • Shield absorption bonus -» 5% accumulator recharge, in line with other Pelistal

  • Accumulator capacity decrese to compensate for the recharge bonus

Mesmer:

  • Falloff bonus -» -5% magnetic weapon accu usage/lvl

  • Base speed increase to 44.8

Yagel, Arbalest, Kain:

  • Falloff bonus -» -5% magnetic weapon accu usage/lvl

All turret robots:

  • Increase of firing height to get better line of sight

Very important point to raise Calvin, does that mean you are going to reimburse the EP that Seth pilots have spent in being able to equip and utilize a shield? Since you are essentially changing the entire bot from ground-up, it might be an idea to reimburse the Seth players who will be impacted by this change.

On a personal note, I think you should simply introduce a new type of bot already. Changing missile range by +/- 5-10% every few months isn't balancing, what we have already is pretty much the closest we'll get to balance with current robopedia.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

133

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

wepaon accu usage bonus on mechs/bots still sucks. accu usage of weapons is to high? tweak the weapons, not the mechs.

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

so based on this thread are the changes being implemented over several patches?

135

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

Read today's patchnotes !

136 (edited by Baron 2011-07-20 14:48:50)

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

Robots and modules
Change: Seth base speed increased to 39.6 kph.
Change: Lowered the Gropho's base weight by 2500kg (3000kg for Mk2).
Change: L-demobilizers are now affected by line of sight.
Change: Reduced the accumulator usage of medium lasers.
Change: Reduced the accumulator usage of medium magnetic weapons.
Change: Medium shield generators have now 5 second cycle times - increased base accumulator consumption accordingly.

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2011-07-20

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

Need still some balance

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

gimme shield bonus on seth back!

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

Stupid Necro!!!!

Just Sayin
01000110 01110010 01100101 01100101 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100011 01100101 01110010 01110011
smileneutralsadbig_smileyikeswinkhmmtonguelolmadrollcoolyarr

140

Re: Seth / Mesmer to Gropho Inbalance ( WARNING, wall of text / math )

SUDDENLY

Give resist bonuces to Seth but not the same as on Artemis, rebalance it somehow.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086