Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

Immo wrote:

competition haters neutral

^this

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

More like necrothreaders.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

Better to charge a fee everytime someone changes the price

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

Mouse Tiger wrote:

Better to charge a fee everytime someone changes the price

Not sure how that would change anything, and even so, what's wrong with 0.01 bids? It quickly gets pushed down as long as there's a few people competing that way.

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

In a free market, such as the US, a vendor is only allowed to change their prices once per day.

If games would do that you'd see a lot more wide variance in orders, and people 'sitting', hoping everyone else will cap out their available modifications before they do so that they can take advantage of market shifts.

I vote for a 24 hour lock on any placed or altered order, except of course for cancelling (which keeps the VAT and transaction taxes anyway).

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

I would vote for one possible change at 0 to 30 mins from posting, then one every 24h from that point.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

32

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

BugSplat wrote:

In a free market, such as the US, a vendor is only allowed to change their prices once per day.

That is not for the market. It's for shops. It's done because you cannot see the price of all sellers at once and find out which is the smaller. It also is limited to sales, but does not affect purchases (which rarely happen in shops anyway).

On a market you know what the best price is. Actually on a market you should only be allowed to buy from the lowest sell offer and sell to the highest buy offer (this is currently a broken mechanic in Perpetuum).

Norrdec wrote:

I would vote for one possible change at 0 to 30 mins from posting, then one every 24h from that point.

The economy and the market are broken and being a trader is not really worth as a profession (it's doable, but barely so). But if you want a well developed market driven economy, prices should be free to fluctuate several times a day. And for high volume items with small margins actually they shall fluctuate several times an hour.

No trader would ever leverage a small margin and provide liquidity to that market if there's no leeway to adjust for fluctuation. The higher the volume and the smaller the margin, the faster you need to be able to adjust.

If the delay is reasonable (say between 1 and 5 minutes), a trader would simply split his orders into multiple orders and stagger them so that he can redefine his position in real time. Alternatively, if there are very small broker fees he'll create and delete orders (this is what happens in some real life intraday trading, like currency, where you only pay a fee if the transaction happens). If it's longer, especially with high volume low differential items, than providing liquidity to that item is not worth doing, therefore the market will simply never fully develop.

Avatar Creations have a lot to learn about economy
-- Snowman

33 (edited by Blackomen 2011-07-25 17:14:01)

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

It should be noted that it used to be whole numbers only. Not having decimal points however had a profound impact on the raw minerals market, where many of the materials arn't even worth 1 NIC. Hence the effect was no market at all for them. This was the main reason for the addition of decimal points in NIC transactions.

Is the 0.01 NIC game annoying as hell? Yup. But it's a necessary evil. Take care in the fact that you can't change your market order values without waiting on a sizable timer. So at least "effective" market order "bots" (Pun not intended) are out.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

I shall point out this thread was started when we had no chance to change our buy/sell orders. Nowadays you dont need anymore to sit arround in terminal cheking if someone outbids your offer since the offer can be modified in real time.
It was not a competition hate, was broken mechanic that got fixed.
so y necrothread ftl.:P

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

I'd also like to add that you shouldn't buy from any sellers that undercut my price (2mil arbalests, it's a bargain!), because they're nothing but filthy market weasels and exploiters and probably child molesters.

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

If you're undercut by .01NIC, then you were overpriced by 0.01NIC. Stop tryin' to rip everyone off!

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

I underbid by .01, and here's why

underbidding by anything more than .01 is just needlessly crashing a market and ruining everyone's profits.  I think what angers you, really, is that I pay more attention to the market than you, and am able to keep my bid constantly the lowest throughout the day.

to people who say 'ill just massively undercut you till you stop doing it' that is false logic.  you are only hurting yourself by killing your own profit margin.  Im still going to underbid by .01 no matter how massive your cuts are, unless you go below my margin, in which case Ill just wait out your foolishness.

I was under the impression that if my item is the lowest priced, it will always get sold first, even if somebody 'tries' to buy a more expensive item.  is that not correct?

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

If the market was healthy it wouldn't matter who as putting up 0.01 NIC orders because the items should still sell very quickly.

The reason 0.01 NIC bids work so well at the moment is due to the fact that there is usually more going into the market that people are willing to buy. I had minerals on the market at cheaper than average prices and waited a week.. None sold.. Then I dropped all my prices 10% and everything sold in an hour.

It seems to be that there are people out there with a lot of NIC just waiting for the prices to crash. And be cause there are so few people out there they can band together and crash the market by no purchasing anything.

This would not happen if either more people were interested in using the market (Usually PvPers and manufacturers) or if there were more people in general.

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

We've been here before.

The population drops.

Large corps continue to PVP, but most of these corps supplyl thier own bots and modules.

Small corp PVP drops, typically because the FC or CEO stops logging in and driving it.

Reduced alpha PVP reduces market demand.

Dropping module and bot demand slows production.

Reduced production drops demand for ores.

Reduced ore demand drops ore pricing.

Lower ore pricing causes miners to stop mining.

Reduced demand by industrials on the market further reduces market demand.

Players with NIC can use this time to stockpile cheap ore to a point, then that market will dry up too.

AC will release another expansion, and the population will come back, maybe to stay.

Demand for bots/modules will increase.

There will be a slight lag as stockpiled resources are consumed, then pricing will return to previous levels.

Tl;dr - Reduced population effects everyone, not just the poor PVP guy complaining about needing to roam for hours and hours to find someone to gank. .01 bids aren't relevent, as Alex says, because it's not going to trigger someone to buy if they continue to see competition.

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

My simple answer to people that are anti-undercut has always been that it's just business. The point of the minimal undercut is to be the lowest/lower price and make the sale, as people will pretty much always buy the lowest price item no matter how small the margin is. The more I undercut however, the more profit I'm losing. If I'm doing a fire sale because I know something in game is going to happen or change, sure, I might sell drastically lower. But if I intend to make max profit, I'll charge as much as I can get away with. This is capitolism

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

im pretty sure its fine, EVE has 0.01 ISK changes to the market, and chances are if you change someone will go 0.01 above you within 5mins if your at a trade hub, and seeing as how both games have a similar market, its not a problem, the only problem i have with the market is how empty it is tongue but thats from a lacking playerbase

Re: 0.01 NIC Bids

ever play EVE?, its a normal part of the market