You should use this for the dev server

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/ … giant-game

Ergh, ok well its a step forward but you say it yourself:

A gropho can use almost 100% of its AP for tanking, while seths and mesmers need most of the AP for their weapons (still).

Anyway .. its a step into the right direction. But AP usage of missiles needs to change.

Alf I sincerely hope you weren't testing this Mesmer fit with Magnedarts.

On second thought, I hope you did and I hope theres explosion damage on the Dev server.

You mean to tell me that you killed a seth with a gropho that didn't run itself out of accu so it couldn't rep?

I have a hard time believing that, the rock, paper, scissor mechanic is off balance and sure, a gropho can tank a seth... but can he really kill it if it doesn't want to die? The answer is, in my opinion, no.

Can a blue kill a green if it doesn't want to die... unequivacally, yes... quickly..

Cany yellow kill blue if it doesn't want to die... yes...

There is no critical mass of DPS from the green bots to be able to kill their natural prey with it's innate high resists. Something needs to be done about this before you go and make seths stronger.

Now i'll concede that in groups things change, but this whole balancing thread has been based on a lonely seth/mesmer, etc or else all of these accumulator issues would be solved by a logistics bot feeding it energy.

Wouldnt that make em just like lasers? What's the point of that.

now it gets confusing - where has a seth "innate high resists"?

seth:
- big hitpoints buffer (fit lwf = advantage removed)
- big buffer accumulator (which you have to half due to recharge mechanic)

both "buffers" alone without team support cannot keep up with long term battle.
both buffers will deplete relatively fast under missile fire and attempted counterfire.
and both buffers on their own need rather long to fill up again.

gropho:
constant dps out of cover
-> which is the biggest threat to a seth natural buffer
mesmer:
high burst damage, low hitpoints, Hit&Run.
-> which is the lowest threat to a seth due to its hitpoint buffer.

equipped modules can shift those mechanics, and thats what the basic idea of modules is after all. Imbalance is only if a bot can do everything at once with high extensions + right equip.  and the proposed changes by calvin all together will create that status.

mesmers that are fast, long range and can repair while using weapons
grophos that can permarun repair while shooting out of cover over long ranges (not to forget the locktime bonus and granted dps against even the smallest targets)
Fast seth with long-range weapons, resist tank (=faster self repair for less AP)

wheres the difference then?

Well, you stated the differences right there.

Mesmer that can repair while using weapons have a counter, the Ictus, or any neutralization.  Also, I doubt that can be sustained without remote energy tranfer for very long, so the mech doing the transfer is also vulnerable, in combat range and capable of being neuted as well.

Gropho that can permarun it's defense, at high range, which makes it easy for it to fall back out of damage range, or use landscape to hide from damage, but still able to permarun it's weapons.  Not much counter there, is there, considering the range of neuts, and that they re LOS as well. Ewar possibly, ECM or Suppressors, but all that AP still keeping those shields going.

Seth, buffer tank, really only works in extended engaements if there is remote rep, so same arguement as the Mesmer, and will probably still need remote energy transfer as well.

Because the Gropho:

-has an AP net gain with weapon fire, unlike the Mesmer, which means it can take alot more neuting, and still fire and run shields, before going dry.

-Because medium neuts with max skills on an ictus will only exceed weapon range of Gropho by less than 100 m, and would have to get in weapon range of support mechs and bots to utilize t, unlike the Mesmer, which it will exceed weapon range by 300-400m.

And, to borrow from stEVE:

Because of Gropho!

To fire six med missile launchers you need 12 AP to fire six Med Lasers you need between 156 and 210 AP.

Can a gropho generate 12AP after being sucked dry? Yes.

But wth! the ictus is not exactly a frontline assault bot....

Missiles should use the same amount of AP every other weapon uses.

ALF: use grophos LOS advantage when testing. The gropho has it and if gropho-guys dont use it then they should die.

And while youre testing: have a seth catch a running mesmer..

Missiles use same AP as turrets? Then don't forget to give missile bots 50% higher max accumuator size, and also bring missile dps up around 40-50%.

Guys,

are you trying to balance SOLO Mesmer/Gropho/Seth? Cuz its only one possible way to balance them. Where did you get that Ictus?

By the game design, it's yellow -> blue -> green, thats damage/resist side only. Now about weapons and tactics.

Yellows have racial bonuses to resists, so Gropho have lesser changes to kill it with plain firing. But they have no LoS issues so they shouldn't just stay and shoot in an empty field, they should use theyr advantage. and to make it easier, they probably can have more slope capacity to get in a hideout.

Seth atm wasting his accu pretty fast due to high lasers ap consume + high dps. So possible fix may be in decreasing theyr fire rate, but increasing theyr damage and range. So they may don't need theyr shields and use racial bonuses to resists. They also can be slowest h-mechs aswell as an additional compensation.

And now Mesmers. Atm blues are faster, so lets use it. Let them have high speed and probably high fire-rate but less range.

Summary:

Grophos can get in unpassable for other h-mehs terrain.
Mesmers can quickly get in a medium or short distance and rapidly fire (magnedarts may need nerf...or may not )
Seths are slow but they can snipe.

Thats not a completed balance, just a possible way to go.

seems you forgot how it ended this way: range extender working on missiles. before that, combat was usually around 500m, with LCL LAser and Gauss fitted heavy mechs.

AFTER that it still took a while until Alf removed the penalty from rangeextender which only affected AP-consuming weapons anyway.
But now range is a must have, short range weapons losing more and more their use, unless your roaming with more ewar then combat bots/mechs.

and due to the Terrain, missiles exceed at that.
So IMHO, enabling range extender on missiles without any significant penalty was the change in balance of heavy mechs.

And its not long ago that the general statement was "missiles suck in pvp"...