Topic: *** about trial restrictions ITT

I understand your reasons but I really feel like trial account restrictions are over the top.  Fair enough you want to restrict spam and throwaway account abuse but there's a middle ground here where you should be letting noobs see the best your game has to offer without inconveniencing subs too much. 

* Trials should be able to join corps.  It's a social game and making friends is how you keep MMOs "sticky" and interesting.  This is the only restriction I really can't see any positives for.

* Please let us use the player market in some limited fashion!  Locking out such a big part of the game as your player driven economy is really limiting your noobs.  Maybe restrict what we're allowed to train but let us buy freely, or make us buy the cheapest sell orders wherever they are.  Some other means than a blanket ban here.

* Replying to PMs initiated by a sub shouldn't be restricted.  Obvious one here, would prevent spam but enable us to talk to people actually trying to communicate with us!

Thanks for your time.  I do intend to subscribe soon as I have spare money! smile

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

All these are very good ideas but I think trial accounts should be easier to tell if you allow them to join a corp. The issue is if they did join a corp they would and should not be allowed hanger access. This just defeats the purpose of the trial.

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

I disagree with letting trial accounts access markets not because it is illogical, but because the market is very fragile. When it is stable and trial accounts can't affect the market dynamics, I agree that trial users should be able to access it. With the new population influx, market should stabiles rather quickly

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

I play since 3 days now and up to now I just have one big problem: Amunition sad

Most of the time I'm online I try to gather enough Amunition as the Market just offers me the very expensive NPC price (I belive it is NPC price) which I can not afford from Mission rewards.

Would it destroy the market, if you let Trails have access to the basic Ammunition market? Maybe small Amu only?

Same for Basic mining "Amunition" (don't know how it is named in english)?

If not full access, how about "buy cheapest in Terminal"?

Just for Amunition! Not for any other item.

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Well, this whole game is stolen from EVE Online, so why did you do such a bad job with trials?!

Look again how EVE restricts trial accounts without killing all the fun for new players.

This is THE most important part here, giving a new player such a unnecessaryly hard start wont get you any more subscriptions!

Those restrictions MUST be lifted:

- Not able to join a corp

- not able to buy in the market

- commucications restriction

Again, look how EVE did this, if you allready copy most of the game, then do it right.

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

I disagree with TaoByeBye.

Not beeing able to comunicate outside the main channels is good! Lifting this would result in massive ISK/Scam spammers like they are in most other games.
And we ALL hate them right?

As former Guild/Corp leader from other games (including EvE, WoW, DAoC, WAR and many others) I understand, why Trails can't join player corps. Most times they end as dead registry entrys. And I even know some Guilds/Corps, which have spezialised in "scam-trails/rookis" which is bad too.

I even understand, why Trails can't buy everythink of the market.
My concern is only about amunition/charges sad.

Maybe some sort of "cheap Trail Charg" might help.
5%-10% less effective then common Amunition but very low cost?

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

PS: sorry for double post, there is no "edit" button sad

ISK stands for "random used ingame currency name" wink (don't know which name it has in this game).

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Jack Jombardo wrote:

I play since 3 days now and up to now I just have one big problem: Amunition sad

Most of the time I'm online I try to gather enough Amunition as the Market just offers me the very expensive NPC price (I belive it is NPC price) which I can not afford from Mission rewards.

Would it destroy the market, if you let Trails have access to the basic Ammunition market? Maybe small Amu only?

Same for Basic mining "Amunition" (don't know how it is named in english)?

If not full access, how about "buy cheapest in Terminal"?

Just for Amunition! Not for any other item.

I have asked the DEVS to look into lowering the syndicate buy/sell orders for ammunition to make it easier for you guys.

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

The issue with the free trials and the market, is I can create as many agents as I want, for free.

If trials could access the market and/or corp storage, I would place a trial agent in every outpost at no cost.

Regardless of the market size, the ability to have an unlimited number of agents gives a player significant advantage when placing buy and sell orders, as well as simply not needing to waste time with moving to an outpost that has a significanly underpriced item(s).

Limit trials to (1) purchase, then I'll just put 10 in each outpost.
Limit trials to [insert any action here], then I'll just put in [x] free agents.

As long the transfer of goods or NIC is allowed to a permanent character, the system will get abused.

There is a distinct difference between a player run market, and a theme park auction house, so trying to compare trials from free2play or any non-sandbox games are irrelevant.

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Our "trial" is not intended to be a completely free access; people will just be on trial indefinitely and devs will never get a penny. It was not meant for a trial user to be rich either.

However, I do agree that ammo prices may be too steep for trial users (especially hard if they lose their starter bot)

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

And BTW, when is this game going open beta?

I feel it´s almost there in terms of stability!

But those not-thought-through trial-restrictions, in combination with a crash every 30 minutes, and then hammering login a thousand times...

But be careful!

They try to call back home every time the clients crashs, good I had it in window mode first, and saw it so I was able to stop it.
Google style is getting popular I guess, just keep yourself save!

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Troll in my trail account forums? And well feed I see.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

I might have some peanuts in my pocket... Ah, there it is. Here you go:

The current loggin situation aside, the only real problem i feel that needs to be adressed is the control of your bot. You can't look around while moving. At least not without turning your bot. I think this is really annyoing in pvp (for what I'm too young anyways).

It might be an idea to have strafe on q and e, get the turning on a and d and use the right button entirely for free-look. That would be great IMO.

My 2 cents

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

There is a free look mode, I dont know where I am too used to playing this way big_smile

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

TaoByeBye: I can understand the market restriction

In eve a guy I used to know was running a trial account and did a random beg for money just for the lols... he choked on his tongue when someone gave him like 100m or so... he had a regular acc and was not planning on getting another. Since trading money to a trial acc was allowed but not trading money from it he was kind of annoyed that the 100m would be stuck there...

Well, another guy put a single round of ammo up on the market for 100m and the guy with the tiral account he bought it. Viola. 100m transfered from a trial account to a full account.

While market/trade access restrictions is annoying as hell, I can still understand them perfectly.

16 (edited by Pak 2011-07-07 10:27:46)

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Kobodera wrote:

Well, another guy put a single round of ammo up on the market for 100m and the guy with the tiral account he bought it. Viola. 100m transfered from a trial account to a full account.

This would be possible in Perpetuum due to an almost virgin market with nearly no movement and due to the market mechanics.

You say it happened in EvE and that is very hard to believe. In EvE if you put up a single round of ammo for 100m you lose the broker fee and that's about it. The trial account would not be able to buy it unless you found a station where that specific ammo was not traded by anyone and there were no sell orders at all (hardly possible in EvE).

In fact the way to transfer trial money to non trial accounts in EvE would have been to put up the ammo for a very low price, not a high one. That could have worked, but you'll always be at the risk of someone else buying your sell order out or posting an undercutting sell order a split second earlier than your trial account buying the ammo, in which cases your trial account money would in fact end up to someone else.

Therefore: possible but risky operation if done correctly, nearly impossible if done the way you describe it.

Avatar Creations have a lot to learn about economy
-- Snowman

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

So it couldn't be something else than a bullet? Still the explanation why we don't want less limitations is clear.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

18

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Norrdec wrote:

So it couldn't be something else than a bullet?

It could be something worth 100M, but that would defeat the purpose. It could be something worth a small value, but than it would be the same as a bullet.

Your best bet would be an item of low value and do the trick in a station where that item is not being traded. This, in a developed market like the one in EvE is possible but difficult. And by game mechanics you never ever have any guarantee: all it takes is one player posting a sell order that undercuts your one (if you sell for a huge amount) or, if you sell for the correct price, buying out your sell order (this can even be done remotely). If any of this happens, the trial money will go to some other player instead of your main.

Norrdec wrote:

Still the explanation why we don't want less limitations is clear.

If that explanation is that the game is very young and the economy is underdeveloped, then yes. Sort of clear.

With a more mature economy there would be absolutely nothing a trial would be able to do that could ruin the economy. The only two reasons for limiting trials would be incentive to subscribe and preventing money laundering (AKA RMT). Access to the market (if the market mechanics are changed to be like the ones in EvE) would not be a problem.

Avatar Creations have a lot to learn about economy
-- Snowman

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Pak wrote:
Kobodera wrote:

Well, another guy put a single round of ammo up on the market for 100m and the guy with the tiral account he bought it. Viola. 100m transfered from a trial account to a full account.

This would be possible in Perpetuum due to an almost virgin market with nearly no movement and due to the market mechanics.

You say it happened in EvE and that is very hard to believe. In EvE if you put up a single round of ammo for 100m you lose the broker fee and that's about it. The trial account would not be able to buy it unless you found a station where that specific ammo was not traded by anyone and there were no sell orders at all (hardly possible in EvE).

In fact the way to transfer trial money to non trial accounts in EvE would have been to put up the ammo for a very low price, not a high one. That could have worked, but you'll always be at the risk of someone else buying your sell order out or posting an undercutting sell order a split second earlier than your trial account buying the ammo, in which cases your trial account money would in fact end up to someone else.

Therefore: possible but risky operation if done correctly, nearly impossible if done the way you describe it.

How hard could it be?

Go to a station with both chars, check current prices, put the round up. Check prices again. Buy. Transaction complete.

I dont know if you can do it today, but we sure as hell pulled it off back then.

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

The simple answer to this is to allow trail accounts to only but and sell on the market, nut not place any orders themselves.

This will allow these players like myself to Purchase ammo and sell ore and another part we get from our missions but not effect the market but placing orders and a low rate

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

This is not going to be f2p anytime soon you know.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

22

Re: *** about trial restrictions ITT

Kobodera wrote:

How hard could it be?

Go to a station with both chars, check current prices, put the round up. Check prices again. Buy. Transaction complete.

I dont know if you can do it today, but we sure as hell pulled it off back then.

It's not hard. Just not guaranteed to work.

For best chances you want to use a cheap item that has very low market activity overall and also do the trade in an off-hand station with very little market activity. Only the selling (main) character needs to be there (in fact if it has trading skills it doesn't even need to be in that station as long as the item itself is there), the trial character can be anywhere in the same region (even in space).

It is doable. But there's no guarantee it'll work as anyone could screw your trick by buying out your sell order or undercutting it. If you are trading a few hundreds of millions of isk, that's not a problem. But would you take the risk for, say, 50 billions?

The problem is if the trial is being used to launder money or do RMT. Normal gameplay within the 14 days time limit will not impact the economy. The limitations are not supposed to make money transfer impossible, just to make them slightly unreliable so that the risk is not worth it if the amount is huge.

Avatar Creations have a lot to learn about economy
-- Snowman