• Friend
  • Agent
  • Offline

Topic: Time Codes for the poor

HI I was talking about this pretty extensively in chat and with the server issues and what not, I just figured I would leave it here and the devs could talk about it on their own time.

With EvE players coming over and just in general, there is a segment of the population that for one reason or another are not able to come up with the real life money to purchase time codes or are in some way restricted to purchasing time codes through normal means.

Because everyone's situation is different, this thread is not to judge why people can't come up with the money or method to pay. Instead this is to find alternative solutions that fall under the acceptable guidelines of the game.

I have seen devs say several different things about what constitutes an acceptable time code trade but I would like to see it posted here so we have some sort of "official" word on what is ok and what can get someone banned. I think the last thing that people want is someone getting banned for a generous act of helping someone get into the game that otherwise would not have been able to.

So if there could be some situations of what is ok and what is not on trading time codes for in-game items or for in game work agreements, that would help greatly.

Also any thoughts on ways to improve or future plans for a time code system using in game resources would be appreciated as well.

  • M2S
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Just be sure to not transfer NIC through characters on your respective accounts (buyers and activators).  I suggest dummy corps, anonymous alts, and/or field can pass offs.


.....or you meant LEGAL means.  My b.  tongue

->You just lost The Game<-
  • Friend
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

I would rather have a way to do it on the up and up and not have to do anything duplicitous. A way for people who want to sell codes to help people that don't have means to use real money.

If the dev team knows a way, then it would be great to know since I know I personally wouldn't want to risk anyone's account.

  • *
  • Developer
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

The official view on the matter is, that we will not actively pursue where the game codes go, however we will not help out with any misuse or fraud related to such issues either. Doing so would turn us into a holistic investigation company and we have nor the resources nor the talent to pursue these successfully.

  • M2S
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

An interesting stance.  That still does not state what your stance toward trading codes for in-game items is, though.  Almost sounds like "as long as both parties are in agreement of the terms, we dont care".

->You just lost The Game<-
  • Friend
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

As long as you guys officially state that you won't go after people who sell codes for in game items, I think the rest can be handled by the individual parties. The game is still small enough that anyone that tries to cheat someone out of a code would be ostracized.

Personally I would just like the chance and I know there are people who have stated they will sell codes so I would love to be able to continue to play and help them out for taking a chance on me. I know there are several that would like that chance too.

I don't want to put words in the devs mouths but I mean it already sounds that way, if you can just put somewhere that people who trade time codes for in game items won't be punished, it would help out a lot and then I can maybe start dealing with people who are skittish or wary about doing this.

Thanks again.

  • ASI-YU
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Zeb Atlas wrote:

I would rather have a way to do it on the up and up and not have to do anything duplicitous. A way for people who want to sell codes to help people that don't have means to use real money.

If the dev team knows a way, then it would be great to know since I know I personally wouldn't want to risk anyone's account.

I understand the lack of resources, but with Eve players coming in, you may want to keep scamming in mind.

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

I'm really liking this game, but as I am coming from EVE, I'm not sure if 15 days will be enough time for me. It takes a while for a game to stick, yet I'm currently paying for 2 EVE accounts.

If I can really learn the ins and outs and see everything this game has to offer, I may just change that situation.

If for some reason people are giving away time codes, well... yikes

  • Friend
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Th0rG0d wrote:
Zeb Atlas wrote:

I would rather have a way to do it on the up and up and not have to do anything duplicitous. A way for people who want to sell codes to help people that don't have means to use real money.

If the dev team knows a way, then it would be great to know since I know I personally wouldn't want to risk anyone's account.

I understand the lack of resources, but with Eve players coming in, you may want to keep scamming in mind.

IN a fair bit of irony, About a month ago I got back into EvE because I love the setting and immersion. I figured I would do the trial and get my fix and be done. But then I saw the buddy system and the free plex it gave out and saw how it was a secondary market here. I offered everything I could from making up the difference through farming to offering work and everything in between. I was called a scammer and a *** and everything else under the sun.

After about day 9 or so of that I gave up and didn't even play the rest of the trial. Then a couple weeks later the whole EvE fiasco happened and I ended up here. So maybe it ended up being a good thing. The people here have been really friendly and while I haven't got a concrete offer for a time code, noone has been rude or hostile about it. I still have 10 days(plus whatever extra the devs give for downtime) and I have a way to make a fair amount of money a day, so I am going to keep trying up until the end.

The hardest one to get will be the first one. Making Nic is limited, no trust has been established and many other factors. I am just hoping for that one good person and to make sure I can compensate them properly, hopefully after that, the rest will fall into place.

  • *
  • Developer
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Clarified the issue in this post, please take heed:

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/33624/#p33624

  • Friend
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Guess this thread is heading for the grave sad

Well thanks for letting me ask around for a few days. Hopefully things will work out.

12 Reply by fools (edited by fools 2011-06-30 20:11:46)

  • FOOL
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Did you misunderstand?

The stance is you can buy sell keys if you want, but they aren't going to do *** if you get scammed.

And further if you are caught scamming then you will be banned. (The people you scammed won't be reimbursed since they were participating in non-supported activity)

  • Friend
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

They said since it is an issue that is out of their hands, it is no longer able to be asked about on the forums. So threads like I made asking to buy a time code or other threads made in the marketplace will probably get locked and deleted soon.

That was what I was referring to.

"However, since this is a trust based and unsafe transaction we do not support it and will not allow it to be promoted on our forums."

  • FOOL
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

check your private messages

  • TM-UAS
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Th0rG0d wrote:

I understand the lack of resources, but with Eve players coming in, you may want to keep scamming in mind.

Not only this but being poor isn't the only reason people would want this.
In eve, I bought game time with ISK so I would not have to pay subscription fees.

However, allowing this sort of thing encourages macro-farming.  Many, many accounts were created for the sole purpose of macro-farming isk to pay for accounts, this also made it possible for macro-users to RMT and get their eve accounts for free.  Also, this concept is a form of pay-to-win whether you want to admit it or not.  People only accepted it because they got tricked into thinking it was good for the game and would put an end to or at least disrupt RMT.

  • CIR
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Agreed. As I was pointing out in another post, there is almost no difference from a game balance point of view between buying.a ship with plex isk or buying one from an mt shop. In both cases someone with real cash is able to convert $'s to in-game power.

This is a conversion for me, I was actually for selling codes through the store here, but realized it was the selfish industrialist in me, knowing that NIC would end up flowing to me eventually.

This should be really thought about in perp before being implemented, as in does it allow players to buy in game power with rmt.

  • N H
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

No gamecards, plex's or whatever you call it. These things ruined EVE and it will ruin this game as well. If ppl can't pay, they should not play, period.

  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Brazero wrote:

No gamecards, plex's or whatever you call it. If ppl can't pay, they should not play, period.

I agree. In real life terms a month-by-month subscription to Perpetuum is the cost of ~2 cups of coffee. If someone cannot afford that, I personally wonder how they can afford their computer, the electricity to run it or Internet access.

  • *
  • Developer
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Turkatron wrote:

However, allowing this sort of thing encourages macro-farming.  Many, many accounts were created for the sole purpose of macro-farming isk to pay for accounts, this also made it possible for macro-users to RMT and get their eve accounts for free.  Also, this concept is a form of pay-to-win whether you want to admit it or not.  People only accepted it because they got tricked into thinking it was good for the game and would put an end to or at least disrupt RMT.

Very good point. I haven't thought about it this way.

20 Reply by Pak

  • ICS-GA
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Rodger Wilcoe wrote:
Brazero wrote:

No gamecards, plex's or whatever you call it. If ppl can't pay, they should not play, period.

I agree. In real life terms a month-by-month subscription to Perpetuum is the cost of ~2 cups of coffee. If someone cannot afford that, I personally wonder how they can afford their computer, the electricity to run it or Internet access.

I disagree.
Both botting and RMT existed in EvE years before CCP allowed for a 'legal' way to exchange GTCs for ISK in a ruled forums section. And that was possible years before they introduced PLEXes ingame. In fact PLEXes allowed for a tighter and wider player based market and also helped a lot in fighting RMT. I know of several people that used to buy isks and actually switched to selling PLEXes.
The huge rise of botting activity was not due to PLEXes but to the ease of botting in EvE and the introduction of supercapitals.
If anything PLEXes have made it harder for ISK sellers (the price of ISK in the RMT market has become one third what it used to be before PLEXes because you would get more ISK for $ with plexes than by directly buying it).

As for "cannot pay" there are many reasons besides not having money. For example lack of a credit card: outside the USA and Canada, most people do not have credit cards. Looking at my family (grandparents, parents, uncles, brothers, and cousins, including all spouses) only two have a credit card (me and an uncle).

Besides, you are being robbed: I pay 80 cents for a coffee, that is I get more than 11 coffees for a month subscription.

Note: just google "perpetuum nic" and you'll see that the current RMT rate for NIC is equivalent to 5 million or more for the price of a month subscription depending on how much you buy. If the player base rises that cost will eventually go up (less than NIC for the same price), but a legal market of NIC for gametime would eventually bring it down (a 'PLEX' would eventually be much more than 5M NIC).

Avatar Creations have a lot to learn about economy
-- Snowman
  • *
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Pak wrote:
Rodger Wilcoe wrote:
Brazero wrote:

No gamecards, plex's or whatever you call it. If ppl can't pay, they should not play, period.

I agree. In real life terms a month-by-month subscription to Perpetuum is the cost of ~2 cups of coffee. If someone cannot afford that, I personally wonder how they can afford their computer, the electricity to run it or Internet access.

I disagree.
Both botting and RMT existed in EvE years before CCP allowed for a 'legal' way to exchange GTCs for ISK in a ruled forums section. And that was possible years before they introduced PLEXes ingame. In fact PLEXes allowed for a tighter and wider player based market and also helped a lot in fighting RMT.

While it might have helped combat RMT, it caused its own problems that we are seeing now, with huge amounts of game time stockpiled which will provide no further income to CCP.

This isn't about RMT because if someone can RMT, they can subscribe to the bloody game. Entirely separate issue.

You don't need a credit card to use PayPal. Besides I see the credit-card "barrier" as a way to keep out the younger and less mature player-base personally.

As for coffee, if you are American it is only worth 80c because it is *** tongue

To address your final point this is not about RMT. If someone has the capability to RMT, then they have the capability to subscribe. RMT is more a P2W issue.

-----

The only way that I would personally accept GTC trading or an in-game PLEX equivalent is that they expire after a certain time to prevent stockpiling.

  • N H
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Pak wrote:
Rodger Wilcoe wrote:
Brazero wrote:

No gamecards, plex's or whatever you call it. If ppl can't pay, they should not play, period.

I agree. In real life terms a month-by-month subscription to Perpetuum is the cost of ~2 cups of coffee. If someone cannot afford that, I personally wonder how they can afford their computer, the electricity to run it or Internet access.

I disagree.
Both botting and RMT existed in EvE years before CCP allowed for a 'legal' way to exchange GTCs for ISK in a ruled forums section. And that was possible years before they introduced PLEXes ingame. In fact PLEXes allowed for a tighter and wider player based market and also helped a lot in fighting RMT. I know of several people that used to buy isks and actually switched to selling PLEXes.
The huge rise of botting activity was not due to PLEXes but to the ease of botting in EvE and the introduction of supercapitals.
If anything PLEXes have made it harder for ISK sellers (the price of ISK in the RMT market has become one third what it used to be before PLEXes because you would get more ISK for $ with plexes than by directly buying it).

As for "cannot pay" there are many reasons besides not having money. For example lack of a credit card: outside the USA and Canada, most people do not have credit cards. Looking at my family (grandparents, parents, uncles, brothers, and cousins, including all spouses) only two have a credit card (me and an uncle).

Besides, you are being robbed: I pay 80 cents for a coffee, that is I get more than 11 coffees for a month subscription.

Note: just google "perpetuum nic" and you'll see that the current RMT rate for NIC is equivalent to 5 million or more for the price of a month subscription depending on how much you buy. If the player base rises that cost will eventually go up (less than NIC for the same price), but a legal market of NIC for gametime would eventually bring it down (a 'PLEX' would eventually be much more than 5M NIC).

LOL, you are an idiot. Ppl outside the americas doesn't have a credit card hmm
And this isn't about paying the sub, it's about buying skills and equipment ingame. Lame as hell all of it. I allready left one mmo for this *** routine, I can allways leave another.

  • M2S
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

Brazero wrote:

LOL, you are an idiot. Ppl outside the americas doesn't have a credit card

I'm outside the americas and I have a credit card :s

24 Reply by RG_Sha (edited by RG_Sha 2011-07-05 19:58:37)

  • RG
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Time Codes for the poor

opps

quote=Jelan "Edit: Same old, same old. - DEV Calvin"