Re: Where are we going?

I'm afraid line as per usual whenever something happens that CIR don't like it spawns a whine/cry for help/change request

52 (edited by Line 2011-06-22 09:30:32)

Re: Where are we going?

It's not an actual CIR problem. I don't think DEVs were planning to see people roaming on one type of bots mostly. That was with light ewars, now it's with assaults. More tactics, more fits, more robots - that's what we need. It shoudn't be a bot-of-the-week game, in other case why don't just remove every bots but arkhes and use them in all ways? THAT will be balanced.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
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Re: Where are we going?

People will always roam lights and assualts its cheaper!! Yes let me bring a 5 man mech gang to a beta island so it can get blob and killed...that makes since!! So no matter what they add or take out the cheaper you can roam the better thus lights and assualts will always be main roam bot.

Re: Where are we going?

I think the best way to solve the issue is to make assaults able to see assaults at 1000m.  That way PVP roaming mobs will require a blend of assaults and mechs.  All one or the other wont be good enough against a combined group.  Nerfing them back to what they were will just make them useless again.

Re: Where are we going?

Porblem isn't people are using assaults for roaming, porblem is - people using them MOSTLY. I want to see mixed roaming groups, much more mixed.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Where are we going?

Line wrote:

Porblem isn't people are using assaults for roaming, porblem is - people using them MOSTLY. I want to see mixed roaming groups, much more mixed.

Agreed, but nerfing them back to the way they were is not going to solve that issue.

Re: Where are we going?

Assaults should get 100 detection and 120. This is the reverse of what light robots get and is a fair play off.

The biggest issue is assaults cannot take on mechs without help and then you might as well use mechs with support. The cost increase is noticeable but mechs are not hard to produce at all with the current balance of beta minerals.

The only reason for assaults to have a high masking is to escape or gank which is great but that makes them very powerful and cheap. They need their own roles. Current roles in the game are range, speed, tank, detection, masking, ewar. Some robots can do more than one of these and usually better than another class of robot but assaults and mechs are the same and mechs apart from speed (Sometimes) are always better than an assault. By giving assaults masking all that happens if they're able to doubt mechs and kill miners.

The only reason not to use mechs at the moment is cost. If you can do just as well in an assault as you can in a mech it saves money if and when you do lose. Ewar support can change the battle hugely. Small gang warfare is very quickly won or lost depending who has the better ewar pilots and luck.

Re: Where are we going?

STOP SCREWING WITH THE GAME. make changes like this and then revert then change then add a new BOT? that's not the answer we don't want more crap to re-train for. fix the issue stop adding more problems. I.E. make more options or make smaller changes. Fix accum issues with laser bots. Fix the "Stealth" don't add more bots to "Band-Aid" the issues.   
I agree with the Lemon don't dumb the game down. Fix the issues we have not add more bots to basically add more issues. By reversing changes so far after you do them means many of us (not me really but many others) have spent EP on the new changes ...people are getting sick of "wasting" EP to specialize in bots or fits and then you go and change it again.....people are leaving in droves and not many new people are coming to the game and almost none are returning players .....I am here to tough it out but many people will not stick with it. If you continue to Take one corps/players opinion's and run with it you catering to them not the player base try making smaller changes to bigger issues.

   Bottom line
   Keep making major changes then resetting them some time later is hurting game pop we can all see it.

    Keep making changes that FORCE and not suggest pvp will kill the pop more
   
    Keep making it more difficult for the Open Econ and it WILL kill the pop

    When you have a game with less then 100 people (taking alts into account) online at any given time frame and you keep taking opinions from the random 3-4 people who rage about this or that and it WILL kill the pop

        make smaller changes and stop resetting the major changes that you do bring in.

Re: Where are we going?

This topic can help a little if implemented correctly, leaving assaults stealthed and not making them too op

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Where are we going?

Line wrote:

This topic can help a little if implemented correctly, leaving assaults stealthed and not making them too op

Dude assualts arent OP play the game more one mech can easily counter a group of them. just cuz groups of assualts are used to hit solo mechs and unprotected miners doesnt mean there OP! is it the fault of 3-5 assualts if your dumb enough to solo mine or solo npc or even run around in your seq transporting epi with no escort? I think not! so stop calling assualts OP no matter what bot your in its all about ur # vs what ur attacking + ur ewar support and the use of terrain.

Re: Where are we going?

Balfizar wrote:
Line wrote:

This topic can help a little if implemented correctly, leaving assaults stealthed and not making them too op

Dude assualts arent OP play the game more one mech can easily counter a group of them. just cuz groups of assualts are used to hit solo mechs and unprotected miners doesnt mean there OP! is it the fault of 3-5 assualts if your dumb enough to solo mine or solo npc or even run around in your seq transporting epi with no escort? I think not! so stop calling assualts OP no matter what bot your in its all about ur # vs what ur attacking + ur ewar support and the use of terrain.


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Re: Where are we going?

Balfizar wrote:
Line wrote:

This topic can help a little if implemented correctly, leaving assaults stealthed and not making them too op

Dude assualts arent OP play the game more one mech can easily counter a group of them. just cuz groups of assualts are used to hit solo mechs and unprotected miners doesnt mean there OP! is it the fault of 3-5 assualts if your dumb enough to solo mine or solo npc or even run around in your seq transporting epi with no escort? I think not! so stop calling assualts OP no matter what bot your in its all about ur # vs what ur attacking + ur ewar support and the use of terrain.

This.

Re: Where are we going?

The current Assualt status made me start thinking toward stealth miner Baphomet, me the ultimate carebear, finally saw a risk vs return that was acceptable. I doubt that a specialized EW assault will meet that same r/r level. There will be one less potential target on beta now.

64 (edited by Lemon 2011-06-22 18:33:09)

Re: Where are we going?

You know for me it is kind of painful to watch how narrow minded a majority of these posts are towards what people are perceiving as balance.

A factor that most people seem to be forgetting is that when you fit a bot for a specific job you tend to drastically reduce your abilities in another department. You dont see my Bot running around at 72 KPH with 3 second lock time and 600m range because i gave that up for Tank.

A Factor that currently is not a problem for assaults. I wont bother saying what should be what for assaults but i believe we all can agree you get to much of everything. With Cost of the bot on top of it you may as well have respawn.

Again im going to avoid the nitty Gritty of Everything but lets try and keep open minds about the balance for everyone across the game and keeping PO feeling like its PO. I for one know when i know i am going to engage Alex i review and critique my gangs fits to the ninth degree as i am sure he does the same. We Design a gang to perform a job amazingly which tends to have a weakness...   a Weakness i must anticipate and exploit to win. Thus a Rock, Paper, Scissor Balance.

P.S. Balf i expected more

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Where are we going?

Arga wrote:

The current Assualt status made me start thinking toward stealth miner Baphomet, me the ultimate carebear, finally saw a risk vs return that was acceptable. I doubt that a specialized EW assault will meet that same r/r level. There will be one less potential target on beta now.

see thats where everyone is confused. "one less potential target on beta now" key word "one" beta isnt ment to be a solo place. it is ment for group play so why are people surprised/raged when they get ganked in the danger zone is well beyond me.....

66

Re: Where are we going?

From the closed thread and even more valid then before:

Aiii..

I didnt spend any EP because i refused to accept that my bots remain gimped.
Many things in this game are imbalanced. Thats because of biased suggestions and people asking for a particular buff/nerf without taking all things into account.

Why should a outpost radar solve all bot imbalances we have in game? It doesnt ..
It would be yet another knee-jerk reaction that adds more complexity on top of the imbalances we have in game.

All bots (yes all) need to be reviewed and rebalanced.
POs ingame and balancing dynamics are very complex but to a degree calculable if you take the right things into account.

And discussing changes on the forums only leads to muckraking because some people are not interested in real balance. All they want is a personal advantage. (thats how we got this assault mess)

Re: Where are we going?

Which is exactly why I don't go to beta now solo, so your arguement than is the revert is good, as it will stop solo players from considering going to beta?

Re: Where are we going?

Arga wrote:

Which is exactly why I don't go to beta now solo, so your arguement than is the revert is good, as it will stop solo players from considering going to beta?

Im not sure what ur asking.....Y would reverting things make solo players stop goin to beta? there were people there solo before and will be solo people there till the end of PO

Re: Where are we going?

AgY wrote:

And discussing changes on the forums only leads to muckraking because some people are not interested in real balance. All they want is a personal advantage. (thats how we got this assault mess)


Who exactly did this "personal advantage" QQ'ing? I remember a whole thread on how assaults were gimped to the point that no one even thought of taking one to Beta. Dev's admitted to overdoing the balance on them (and ECCMs) and have presented a down the road fix... Seems like this thread is gonna get the No entry(lock) before to long as it no longer has a topic seeing how the devs presented an answer to the OP's question. The rest of this post has turned in to a whine fest. Cheese any one?

Guys lets move on before this troll under my skin gets free.

FFS please keep your IMBA posts in the proper forum

Re: Where are we going?

Assaults you say?????

I say .. LET THEM COME!

Muhahaha !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2fH5B6VhwI

Re: Where are we going?

I only read part of the first page, and I think I understand the argument, at least as it was in the first page.

Assaults were useless in pvp... people ***.

Assaults now have a place in pvp... people ***.

Re: Where are we going?

Smokeyii wrote:

I only read part of the first page, and I think I understand the argument, at least as it was in the first page.

Assaults were useless in pvp... people ***.

Assaults now have a place in pvp... people ***.


I agree.

Re: Where are we going?

ok so i went back an read everything. What a waste of time.

It's a whole lot easier to balance a small amount of things, and stuff that's already existing.

Instead, we're going to add more paramaters and make things even more complex.

I'll give to you guys one point, I think the assualt speed changes were a little much... with empasis on the little. A waspish doing 85? An arbie doing 95? That's a little bit much. Slow them down a little bit, keep assaults in the game as they are now.

There's some people here who want mechs to be king roaming bot, and heavy mechs to be able to solo 30 lights at once while stepping on them and blowing them up. They're threatened by the fact that maybe someone who is based only on alpha can have a forray into their home and blow up their assests.

I'm thinking the root problem here is a corp based on alpha can have a more casual play style, their members can do their own thing, farm solo, mine solo, play the market solo.. and then get together with 5 or 6 or whatever and come fight you. I think that'd be pretty awesome.

Now, you beta island dwellers, you say "We want to be king top dog! We are work together to achieve ultimate glory!" Which is all fine and dandy. But just because you are, doesn't mean you should never have to fight to prove or keep it.

Keep it Simple. Slow down assaults a little bit. There's no need to add a new type of stealth assault bot. That requires even more specialization.

Re: Where are we going?

Smokeyii wrote:

ok so i went back an read everything. What a waste of time.

It's a whole lot easier to balance a small amount of things, and stuff that's already existing.

Instead, we're going to add more paramaters and make things even more complex.

I'll give to you guys one point, I think the assualt speed changes were a little much... with empasis on the little. A waspish doing 85? An arbie doing 95? That's a little bit much. Slow them down a little bit, keep assaults in the game as they are now.

There's some people here who want mechs to be king roaming bot, and heavy mechs to be able to solo 30 lights at once while stepping on them and blowing them up. They're threatened by the fact that maybe someone who is based only on alpha can have a forray into their home and blow up their assests.

I'm thinking the root problem here is a corp based on alpha can have a more casual play style, their members can do their own thing, farm solo, mine solo, play the market solo.. and then get together with 5 or 6 or whatever and come fight you. I think that'd be pretty awesome.

Now, you beta island dwellers, you say "We want to be king top dog! We are work together to achieve ultimate glory!" Which is all fine and dandy. But just because you are, doesn't mean you should never have to fight to prove or keep it.

Keep it Simple. Slow down assaults a little bit. There's no need to add a new type of stealth assault bot. That requires even more specialization.

95 kph? tell me how cuz my t4 fit arb only goes 83kph I would like to go 95kph....I guess not full fitted?

Re: Where are we going?

All i keep reading about is short sighted views on the current state... This thread was written to figure out a end goal. What is the final picture. Who cares where we are at, the emphasis should be on where we are going and how to get there.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle