26 (edited by Red Bishop 2011-06-20 15:53:14)

Re: Where are we going?

I like the announced decision.

If I may offer a point: Those new stealth oriented bots shouldn't be just a renamed Arbalest with moar stealth. In my opinion, light or assault classed stealth bots should be more expensive or complicated to build and less effective at DPS while being more effective avoiding detection or a designated specialty.

Oooohh  we already have this bot: It's called an ewar... it was fine before the assault became the flavour of the month...

27 (edited by Alkanys 2011-06-20 16:02:36)

Re: Where are we going?

Oooohh  we already have this bot: It's called an ewar... it was fine before the assault became the flavour of the month...

It will be an Assault eware, like it's wrote on the Spec Ops robot control info tongue

Re: Where are we going?

Ewars aren't combat bots, theyr role is different (and they play it well). Assaults are still looking for theyr niche, and all these changes are exactly about it.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Where are we going?

I dont see what the issue is and y this change needs to me made.......a gang of assualts is easy to counter....only change i see needed is to make it where assualts cant use maskers and bam problem solved

Re: Where are we going?

People like them stealth, thats it.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

31 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-06-20 16:15:35)

Re: Where are we going?

Alkorez wrote:

I dont see what the issue is and y this change needs to me made.......a gang of assualts is easy to counter....only change i see needed is to make it where assualts cant use maskers and bam problem solved

It was too powerful. Wave upon wave of assault bots were killing people left and right...


Looking forward to stealth assaults and hoping they'll work good with a bot to complement them, and that they aren't crazy expensive to make, which will help newer players enjoy them.

Re: Where are we going?

That's my point, Line: Assaults shouldn't be the bots we use for finding enemy troops undetected (a task they are king at atm). A well balanced squad should have at least a tackler, a detector, some attackers and maybe a "medic". Right now we have the assault doing all the first three perfectly. Something wrong with that.

I hear a lot of people asking for diversity and I applaud to that. Devs should just keep in mind that diversity should NOT be in the same robot.

From that stems a lot of the current problems we have with overall balancing: More specialized bots call for rarer materials or more difficult means of production, allowing for a nice opportunity to  magnify the gap that should exist between alpha and beta living.

It also allows for specialized roles like the ewar pilot for example. Those specialized "classes" force the general population to form more diverse groups by making them include the specialist if they want to accrue their efficiency as a roaming pack or any other task force.

Re: Where are we going?

ah there goin to be slow as *** so a kain with a detector can catch and kill them to keep people from scream OP!!

34 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-06-20 16:40:14)

Re: Where are we going?

Red Bishop wrote:

From that stems a lot of the current problems we have with overall balancing: More specialized bots call for rarer materials or more difficult means of production, allowing for a nice opportunity to  magnify the gap that should exist between alpha and beta living.

You're a corp that has access to resources to make heavy mechs, and you're giving advice on how much resources should be able to make a small assault bot? Don't you find that ironic?

You're kind of looking at costs from a group that has owned, lived, harvested beta for awhile. While on the other hand smaller/newer corps don't have said access, so why should they be penalized for using light bots to raid your island?

That being said, we don't even know what the amounts will be, but let's hope it's not like a mech in costs.

Re: Where are we going?

Edit: Keep it relevant and civil please. - DEV Calvin

Re: Where are we going?

Edit: Keep it relevant and civil please. - DEV Calvin

Re: Where are we going?

Edit: Keep it relevant and civil please. - DEV Calvin

38 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-06-20 17:27:03)

Re: Where are we going?

Edit: Keep it relevant and civil please. - DEV Calvin

Re: Where are we going?

Maybe its time to show us http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … er-part-1/ part 2?

40 (edited by Red Ketchup 2011-06-20 17:53:58)

Re: Where are we going?

I guess i'll stop it here...

Re: Where are we going?

I think considering Epriton is involved in the construction of pretty much all EW/masking/sensing modules, it would be nice if it was involved in the construction of the new bots.

One thing to keep in mind Devs, when you're balancing things make sure its not something that can be mass-produced on Alpha in ridiculous quantities in absolute and perfect safety.

From a personal perspective, a hauling Destroyer-class mech would be awesome and much needed. If you're going with the same analogy as sequer-lithus difference, it would be carrying 720 units worth of cargo. The game is just progressing for my corp to the point where logistics are moving from being a necessity to being a downright pain in the ***.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Where are we going?

Im kinda glad assaults are being looked at yet again. As frustrating as they were earlier, the recent changes made things even more bizzare. Assaults were getting popped way to easily before because they were slow and easy fodder for mech's range. So the Dev's made them stealthy so that they could sneak up without being range popped. But then, that just made everyone roam in assaults due to how easy it is to sneak up on someone and gank them with proper scouting. Then the speed bump just made them even more OP. They were questionable as it is with stealth and prior speeds.

I don't mind fighting sneaky assaults, but the fact that they're all sneaky, fast and have the same firepower capacity as before is just too much. Having to choose between stealth and combat ready will be interesting.  More variety in bots is essential. Being able to define a bot with mods is great, but there should be a good assortment of bot roles on each level of the weight class'. Having one bot in one weight class and giving them all the same perks is grounds for cheese tactics and fitting bias as we saw with Kains and now assaults.

If we start to see more bot types with actual specific bonus' and weakness' I think we'll start to see more variance in combat encounters and not just whatever FoTM build comes out. When you have people constantly using one class of bot you know something is wrong. That's when you need to make variety more emphasised and beneficial. Mods are great in their variety, but one bot should not be able to take advantage of the majority of them just because of how you build them. Your combat role should be based on your bot and not your mods, mods should just help define what your bot is already supposed to be doing.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: Where are we going?

yeah, please add another set of equipment that an alpha dweller just cant produce.

have you looked at the production costs for someone who has to buy epriton/alligior from market? just example: a heavy mech costs ~20 Million NIC of commodities, and 16 Million NIC of it is the alligior.

i can't build any headslot module without epriton - also 50% of the legslot modules contain epriton

I wonder why standard medium mining laser do not need epriton...

that aside - im looking forward for more robots -> theres no industrial assault mining/harvesting robot or at least remote repair assault.
theres not use for medium weapon slots on small/assault bots yet.
...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Where are we going?

The game is suffering from a slight confusion issue between direction and balance.

The overall game balance is rather good apart from a few issues with some modules so I don't think balance is a problem. It does suffer for a lot of oversight which may be caused by a lack of people on the balancing team or just a lack of foresight at how changes will effect the game overall.

Direction is where this game has usually fallen short. It wants to be, the devs want it to be, so many different things all at once. But this leaves players wondering about the future. For every choice there is a lot of missed opportunities. Every step toward a harsh alien landscape also alienates some players. Every step toward blob based content pushes out those rarely seen but always subscribed players. I wouldn't say it's reach a crisis point but I do wonder what the next changes might bring as the focus of the game suddenly whips around to plug some subscriber losing hole and patches it with chewing gum and glitter.

I am not saying the devs are doing anything wrong but I do feel like there may be 5 devs going in one direction and another 5 devs going the other way.. With a few just happy to be included in something. yarr

What I'd like to see if the devs give an official mission statement about what they want to achieve and the type of game play they expect in 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and next year.

We all know the game won't be "finished" ever but it would be nice to know what's possibly around the corner.

Re: Where are we going?

Blog part 2 soon?

Re: Where are we going?

Red Bishop wrote:

That's my point, Line: Assaults shouldn't be the bots we use for finding enemy troops undetected (a task they are king at atm). A well balanced squad should have at least a tackler, a detector, some attackers and maybe a "medic". Right now we have the assault doing all the first three perfectly. Something wrong with that.

I hear a lot of people asking for diversity and I applaud to that. Devs should just keep in mind that diversity should NOT be in the same robot.

From that stems a lot of the current problems we have with overall balancing: More specialized bots call for rarer materials or more difficult means of production, allowing for a nice opportunity to  magnify the gap that should exist between alpha and beta living.

It also allows for specialized roles like the ewar pilot for example. Those specialized "classes" force the general population to form more diverse groups by making them include the specialist if they want to accrue their efficiency as a roaming pack or any other task force.

Isn't the point of a sandbox game to not have to play a game within defined paradigms?  If it is worth while, it will happen.  If it isn't worthwhile, then people will trying something else.  Forcing people in a sandbox game is hypocritical.

Re: Where are we going?

Gut Punch wrote:

Isn't the point of a sandbox game to not have to play a game within defined paradigms?  If it is worth while, it will happen.  If it isn't worthwhile, then people will trying something else.  Forcing people in a sandbox game is hypocritical.

I agree with  with idea of having basic blocks and let the players come up with interesting constructions. I just don't like to see the do-it-all block and end up with everybody playing the same way.

Re: Where are we going?

Syndic wrote:

Pfft, wish you guys posted a little sooner. Just started 30 lines of assaults last night, one whole factory account cockblocked now. sad

Will be interesting how you balance new bots tho, more toys is always good for sandbox. smile

One word: OWNED


*cough* now then. Signal detection 1, castel, t1 signal detector. Assume signal masking 0 on an assault, t4 masker. You can detect said assault at 415m. This is just barely outside of L-Demob range. Should the stealths be reasonably slow and have the same base masking value, they are now the ultimate ambush weapon.

Re: Where are we going?

Poor Mara, dared to disagree with the novablob and gets jumped on from a great height lol.

Whilst i agree and i'm pleased to see the dev's official responses, wasnt this just a CIR "I died in pvp" please fix it thread.

I'm not sure i'd like to know what the dev's masterplan is, surely thats a case of insider trading similar to BoB shifting tech II bpo's when they found out that the bpc's were coming in. 

It would devalue what is currently there as people will simply wait or plan for the next fotm setup

Re: Where are we going?

Noone will tell you what extensions you will need for new stuff, Jelan. Also, stop turning each thread to "I hate CIR" please, you're turning in Mara big_smile

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086