Topic: Damage Deflection chance

Theres on game mechanic missing, which would be closer to reality, and also balancing one part that so many pvpers complain:

Starting with a real life example:

What happens if you shoot with a handheld gun at a car?
- you can kill driver, damage essential components
What happens if you shoot with a handheld gun at an armored car?
- you need either luck or skill to do a critical hit to hit weak-spot
What happens if you shoot with a handheld gun at a Tank?
- nothing, the thick armor of the tank will simply deflect the bullets
What happens if you shoot with 100 handheld guns at a Tank?
- nothing more

What i want to request?
A chance based mechanic that negates damage below a certain % of attacked robots hitpoints.

lets say, you got this mech, full with armor plates and no additional resists. your slow as hell, your armor repair will take ages to repair you up - but a raiding group of smalls would not be able to damage you at all if they are purely built for speed.
On the other hand, a mech group would be able to *** you, because your armor is only a buffer and you can never repair it as fast as they could damage you.

another option would be to bring small bots or assaults that have medium weapons equipped.

the chance has to be balanced around incomming damage BEFORE resist vs. Hitpoints of the target. the lower the damage, the higher the chance that it wouldn't deal any damage, exception: a critical hit should always come through.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

2 (edited by Gaulois 2011-06-19 23:51:11)

Re: Damage Deflection chance

I don't really understand your explanation, but basically, you're looking for some realistic ballistic calculus, with muzzle velocity, penetration, armor thickness... that kind of stuff?

Or do you just want to roam around in your heavy mech, immune to all light weapons damages?

My blog about MMO design:
http://mmockery.wordpress.com/

Re: Damage Deflection chance

Full immune is impossible and too imba. Realistic ballistic calculations will be too hard for server i believe. However, you can have something like a negative of critical hit - a chance to hit, says, heavy protected part of bot causing no damage. Not miss like on mediom guns shooting small target - it should be independent on target size.

Also you can have some extensions to change that chance, or maybe armor/lwf fitted causing influence.

However, i don't think it's so necessary right now.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

4 (edited by Guns nButter 2011-06-21 00:26:15)

Re: Damage Deflection chance

I'm going to say "no" because Lemon is already a cold hard *** to crack as it is. Making him immune to all of our lights and assaults is just bullcrap.

Re: Damage Deflection chance

Glancing blows that do 25% damage?  Have armor plates give +X% chance to receive a glancing blow.   LWFs in comparison then will give -X% chance to get a glancing blow.  Bots would have to have a default chance to get a glancing blow, with LWFs nearly making that 0% and more armor buffing that.  Hardeners would not change this value because of how they work (makes more sense after reading the following explanations).

Explaining each weapon types glancing chance:

Slugs/Bullets: Deflect off of the massive plates that it can not penetrate.
Lasers: Plates are designed to reflect the lasers.
Missiles:  The large plates resist the explosive expansion.

->You just lost The Game<-

6 (edited by Guns nButter 2011-06-21 05:19:04)

Re: Damage Deflection chance

Bullets bounce. Slugs just plain melt. Where they melt is what matters tongue

edit: And yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a "glancing hit" mechanic if it was minor enough to work with gun size vs bot size.

7 (edited by Annihilator 2011-06-21 12:15:05)

Re: Damage Deflection chance

Guns nButter wrote:

Bullets bounce. Slugs just plain melt. Where they melt is what matters tongue

edit: And yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a "glancing hit" mechanic if it was minor enough to work with gun size vs bot size.

absolutely NOT based on HITSIZE.

based on HITPOINTS vs. DAMAGE is the KEY Element of the Initial topic..

big weapons got a chance to miss, small weapons should have a chance to ge simply absorbed/deflected without doing any damage.

and not "small weapons" but "relative small damage"

the real life example has nothing to do with ballistics - simply the hard armor of the tank cannot be penertrated by the bullet -> result: Bullet will either be deflected or pulverize on impact (depending on impact angle in real life)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Damage Deflection chance

If it's anti-tank rifle (dunno how it translates, PTRS in Russia), then one bullet can penetrate tank armor. But there is no such weapons and ammo atm. However, they can be added and used as counter-deflectors on small robots and as a heavy sniper gun on big ones.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Damage Deflection chance

Annihilator wrote:
Guns nButter wrote:

Bullets bounce. Slugs just plain melt. Where they melt is what matters tongue

edit: And yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a "glancing hit" mechanic if it was minor enough to work with gun size vs bot size.

absolutely NOT based on HITSIZE.

based on HITPOINTS vs. DAMAGE is the KEY Element of the Initial topic..

big weapons got a chance to miss, small weapons should have a chance to ge simply absorbed/deflected without doing any damage.

and not "small weapons" but "relative small damage"

the real life example has nothing to do with ballistics - simply the hard armor of the tank cannot be penertrated by the bullet -> result: Bullet will either be deflected or pulverize on impact (depending on impact angle in real life)

I meant having the 2 mechanics (deflection and shot dispersion) not override each other.

Re: Damage Deflection chance

Let's just suppose that in the future of perpetuum, weapons are so effectives that no armor can deflect a blow. You can only avoid it.
It's like the invention of the HEAT (hollow charge) shell that rendered every heavy tanks completely obsolete.
Today, we are using reactive explosive armor to counter that kind of shells, but it's far from perfect. Our weapons destruction efficiency has evolved much farther than our capacity to absorb the damages. Most tanks today are fast and nimble. They are protected against gun & rifles, but you must avoid at all cost being hit by an anti-tank weapon, or another tank.

My blog about MMO design:
http://mmockery.wordpress.com/

Re: Damage Deflection chance

no no and more no

12 (edited by Annihilator 2011-06-22 17:56:08)

Re: Damage Deflection chance

@Line
thanks for linking this topic and jep, there could be a weapon that counters deflection-tank - a weapon, not an ammo type
but no new extension for it. (adding a fitting choice, not a specialization)

@Neox: nice one

@ Gauloise - your argumentation is not bad - but for me:

by description, the AP-missiles would be hollow charged, but by game mechanic how missiles work alltogether ingame, they are all just rocket propelled grenades with limited guiding, and the player extensions can change missiles physical parameters when they are re-materialized from their cargo-memory into the launcher magazine.

and:
- small bots are Infantry
- assault bots are light vehicles
- mechs are light tanks
- heavy mechs are heavy Tanks

and like you said, in real life, there needs to someone in that infantry group that has an Anti-Tank weapon with him. It wont help if you bring 1000 Man with knives and standard rifles against a MBT. (In perpetuum world: a blob of light bots vs. Gropho)

but those 1000 man can blind the tank, lock its treads or throw molotov cocktails (if they got them)

in perpetuum, you bring 100 lights vs. a mech/heavy mech and you know you will bring him down with t1 light weapons, the same weapons that are effective against other smalls)

im mostly against the "bring more to win every sitiuation" balancing. If i remember correctly im not the only one...

@Zigzagman
very helpfull post. very informative and constructive. did you log on forums just to say that?

Please keep the arguments comming, not the "opinions"

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

13 (edited by Line 2011-06-23 08:05:32)

Re: Damage Deflection chance

That's how the medium slots on lights/assaults can be used. You want to hunt mechs with your light/assault, you put medium guns on. Just make them easier to fit.

For mechs vs lights - they already have hit dispersion and explosion size. But maybe make them dependable on interference? Much easier to hit a large group than a solo man with heavy guns i suggest.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086