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The assault works fine for PVE, does every bot NEED to have a role in PVP? As you point out, it's easy enough to skip past assaults into Mechs if you choose to go that direction, or like 62'nd you can choose to stay specialized in basic bots and small weapons which are equally useful for the assault or light bots.
at the end, the main issue for almost any imbalance in battle is the game mechanic around mass and lwf's.
dont equip lwf - your going 40kph or less.
equip lwf - your going ~80 kph or more.
base speed difference between mech and assault is around 10 kph. with equip its either almost zero, or the mech is faster, while having almost all advantages at its side.
to many modules are also balanced around their AP usage or mass -> while smaller bots have the natural disadvantage of less fitting slots, they can't go out with them. The change of Evasive mods was one of the best ones of the last patch, while the high epriton volume in their component list is still a main reason not to use them.
same goes for stuff that you would want to use on assaults but can't because its either draining youre accumulator empty before you reach your target, or adds so much mass, turning you in a semi static target. (stealth equip eg, which needs massive accumulator and has briochit as base component even on the standard one).
... the solution is: bring more bots or high-end heavy mechs (grophos)
So here's the contradiction;
On one hand we are telling new players that EP and extension levels aren't that important, and you can still be productive in the PVP game. On the other hand, there's the conception that mis-placing a couple thousand EP is game breaking and requires an EP reset. Even if it's 10,000EP; it's just a week's time. If you can't make up a week's worth of mistake, then the 'premise' that new players can be effective is completely false.
Those are called LIES and anyone telling newbies that is hurting the game since they will leave once they realize they have no chance without months of EP (by dying and losing probably nearly all they have, instead of having honest players tell them). Newbies are only effective in the blob where they are extra targets and can overwhelm with sheer numbers.
It doesn't matter where you look; from the light bot tournament to the mech/ewar duo and solo roamers, their EP is as much if not more of a factor than their gear.
You will notice that the players saying EP doesn't matter are *always* the ones who have quite a bit to spare; a large majority of which have already used their free reset to fix any mistakes they made.
What does more EP mean? It means you can move faster hit harder and faster at longer range and fit more and better gear. How this could not be seen as a the huge factor it is, especially for newbies, is just dishonesty for easy kills in my view. It's very much do as I say not as I do (aka hypocrisy on a level that is often reserved for politicians and priests)
Arga wrote:So here's the contradiction;
On one hand we are telling new players that EP and extension levels aren't that important, and you can still be productive in the PVP game. On the other hand, there's the conception that mis-placing a couple thousand EP is game breaking and requires an EP reset. Even if it's 10,000EP; it's just a week's time. If you can't make up a week's worth of mistake, then the 'premise' that new players can be effective is completely false.
Those are called LIES and anyone telling newbies that is hurting the game since they will leave once they realize they have no chance without months of EP (by dying and losing probably nearly all they have, instead of having honest players tell them). Newbies are only effective in the blob where they are extra targets and can overwhelm with sheer numbers.
It doesn't matter where you look; from the light bot tournament to the mech/ewar duo and solo roamers, their EP is as much if not more of a factor than their gear.
You will notice that the players saying EP doesn't matter are *always* the ones who have quite a bit to spare; a large majority of which have already used their free reset to fix any mistakes they made.
What does more EP mean? It means you can move faster hit harder and faster at longer range and fit more and better gear. How this could not be seen as a the huge factor it is, especially for newbies, is just dishonesty for easy kills in my view. It's very much do as I say not as I do (aka hypocrisy on a level that is often reserved for politicians and priests)
wrong lol.....Funny you say that, I can remember months ago I had next to nothing for EP and had to deal with what I had until now lol. Oh thats right I forget Im not a newb anymore and I started this game leet, thats right I had 30000000000 ep to start with lol. Any new player can be an asset no matter what ep they have, ep takes time. The more ep the better fits you can have...sure the hell doesnt make you a better player lol...
multiple arguments going on here that are just silly.
1) The amount of EP you have dictates what roles you can fill, not how good of a player you are.
2) A few hours ago I was farming mechs with a Thel mech (I think artemis?) wielding medium autocannons. He has virtually zero EP dedicated to combat skills, and he was dealing almost 3 times as much DPS as a dedicated combat character wielding medium lasers earlier in the day. I think that needs fixed.
Guns have a larger Dispersion and a shorter range then lasers; there's a functionality trade-off between DPS and range/target size. Dedicated combat doesn't always mean more DPS, but it can, it also means makes range/locking speed and tanking.
Ooooh.... dispersion... didn't take that into account. I take it lasers have really low hit dispersion compared to, say, EM guns?
That doesnt really matter if you farm mechs.
ACs on thelodica mechs are far more effective then lasers (due to cirtical hit bonus).
nButter was making a point about the balance difference between lasers and guns, not which is better.
Also, the type of damage and the resistances of the target can account for DPS variances between weapons.
Hit dispersion, for turrets, is a hit/miss stat, doesn't effect damage per hit value; but it does effect the DPS.
Some guns have a greater Hit dispersion than the Hit size of a mech, so even there precision skills or a weapon stab. may need to be used to get 100%.
That doesnt really matter if you farm mechs.
ACs on thelodica mechs are far more effective then lasers (due to cirtical hit bonus).
on a low EP skilled char you got i right .
increase your damage skill and advanced robotic and you will do more dps with lazer than AC.
AgY wrote:That doesnt really matter if you farm mechs.
ACs on thelodica mechs are far more effective then lasers (due to cirtical hit bonus).on a low EP skilled char you got i right .
increase your damage skill and advanced robotic and you will do more dps with lazer than AC.
Yea but you also need more energy for those lasers.
Whys wrote:AgY wrote:That doesnt really matter if you farm mechs.
ACs on thelodica mechs are far more effective then lasers (due to cirtical hit bonus).on a low EP skilled char you got i right .
increase your damage skill and advanced robotic and you will do more dps with lazer than AC.Yea but you also need more energy for those lasers.
And?
There are extensions that help with this also.
You can run additional mods with the energy you save. E.g. a medium rep.
LoL what's this bs, we don't have tons of ep into light bots guys. Everyone thinks we have level 10 light bots. You can only have like level 5-6 and kill heavies. Just gotta have the right support ie ewar lights and have right situation. Mara has like level 6 and i've killed tons of guys using a light bot...
Yup, just upped my basic to 6 since I've been farming with the Baph MK II, 2 tuners and a sens amp make for some nice damage potential. Downside is with 2 tuners you can't fit a missle launcher and 2 hardners 
I'll agree that Thelo are not as mobile, but this is once again an argument that ignores the strengths. The natural bonus to resists are huge and range is ans extremely useful tool even if it's not always available due to LOS...
I've been having a similar problem with Nuimqol bots (which I've always piloted). It really bothers me that even after bonuses to rep amount... Thelo bots make better active tanks due to the natural resist bonuses that they start with... truth is without a heavy speed advantage, Kain survivability drops to zero since they need to get in close to fire, before running away... I personally think the poor range and terrible defense makes the slower Mesmer useless, and I've yet to actually see a single one in PvP. On the other hand the Seth might be slow as all heck but in a defensive role can tank like nobodies business and presumably has the range advantage since the defenders set themselves up on the high ground in advance.
So where you expect the Thelo to be a master of range... it's actually best played as a tank (range is just an occasional side bonus, VERY handy with the ewar you decide to ignore)
Where I expected Nuim to be tanks... they're actually best played as hit and run raiders (bonus to rep amt is a side bonus that lets me get back into the action sooner)
Any adjustments to speed... other bots up or Kains down will COMPLETELY cripple us, since after getting into close range to fire, our ONLY viable defense is to run back out of range to rep up before attacking again.... As for Mesmers, if you know any viable roles for them let me know.
LoL what's this bs, we don't have tons of ep into light bots guys. Everyone thinks we have level 10 light bots. You can only have like level 5-6 and kill heavies. Just gotta have the right support ie ewar lights and have right situation. Mara has like level 6 and i've killed tons of guys using a light bot...
Dude. Really? Anyone who has sat on 62nd comms for a light bot tournament knows this isn't true. I can start naming people, if you want, who have explicitly said they have light bots 8 9 or 10 who routinely fight in the tournament against newbies and wear a 62nd tag. Are you one of them? I don't recall but I know others do for sure.
I can start naming people, if you want, who have explicitly said they have light bots 8 9 or 10 who routinely fight in the tournament against newbies and wear a 62nd tag. Are you one of them? I don't recall but I know others do for sure.
No I'm not, and yes you're very wrong. That'd be kind of backwards.
i got my light ewar skill at 5 and it's realy enought.
What make you win or lost a pvp is not only your lvl in your EP skill that help but what make the hudge difference is how you use your brain and pvp skill on the moment in different situation of fight.
since the 2v2 tournament start i never lost one of my fight with my teammate doob. Teamplay > EP skill , that's how pvp work.
now back to the main topic since the new patch , Med lazer got now more weight than before we are even more slower than before. i wonder when the thelodica bot (combat i mean) will get some love to catch up with nimqol and pelistal .
With the change to range extenders, maybe a good fit would be light lasers on an Artemis with resist plates and repper. Light laser's wont tax the acc at all, and allow it to tank while still dealing a fair amount of damage to mechs and deadly amounts to lights and assaults.
for everyone whining about the oh' so massively increased mass of t4 medium laser:
it affects a Seth about 0.5 kph! OMG you will all die in vain!
for everyone whining about the oh' so massively increased mass of t4 medium laser:
it affects a Seth about 0.5 kph! OMG you will all die in vain!
Seth is still slow as *** and completely useless in any sort of PvP bar sitting under the outpost. The lazer weight increase didn't change much, but was something like *** to Thelodica players OR appearance of cluelessness of whichever dev is responsible for it. Don't really know which one of the two options is worse.
Dude. Really? Anyone who has sat on 62nd comms for a light bot tournament knows this isn't true. I can start naming people, if you want, who have explicitly said they have light bots 8 9 or 10 who routinely fight in the tournament against newbies and wear a 62nd tag. Are you one of them? I don't recall but I know others do for sure.
And thats why I laugh when I see Dev's sponsoring this NIC-scam scheme, and acting like its good for the community that 10-12 guys uses new players to get 200k NIC out of them.
From what I understand, yellows are slow, tanky, and deal quite a lot of DPS, right?
Key word being tanky?
From what I understand, yellows are slow, tanky, and deal quite a lot of DPS, right?
Key word being tanky?
In how many medium to large scale fights you've been? Such thing as tank doesn't exist outside skirmishes, suicide mechs or at some occasions blob defending an outpost. As soon as you are cought you blow up. If you are the catching guy, your tank doesn't matter as you're falling behind and don't even get a chance to shoot.
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