Topic: Original Intent Lost?

So you can put a 4 digit code in and wham your into a container. 

Is it just me or doesn't this seem like too little security for a container that is meant as a holding pattern for the haulers to pickup from?

No option for PvP to take back/defend stolen resources.

The fact that a macro can be made to brute force this in a short amount of time.

And that's if they don't plainly use the unlimited time and unlimited attempts to just guess the code anyway, I mean 4 digits?!?

I like the conflict, being able to hack someone's loot or container brings.  But with no recourse or way to stop them from doing what they are doing.  This seems to lend more to one attempt per person per container or rather this can only be attempted in a PvP hot zone etc.

The way it stands well it just makes using the containers to stage for haulers completely pointless and very much unusable.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

We never had this problem.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Adapt or whine...

Re: Original Intent Lost?

If you want a PvP option to get your stuff back then maybe you should mine on the PvP islands.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Being able to use a macro program to get into a container does not seem like an intended use to me. I hope that anyone that uses that tactic is banned.

Is the point of containers to be a semi secure way to hold things in the field or just another pvp objective? Currently it seems like they want to add an element of piracy to containers? I don't think that is the right way to go about it because only a small fraction of the players are willing and able to pirate some miner for shiggles. If the containers are ment to be disputed and fought over than great, everyone should be given a code cracker so everyone can pillage the pve carebears. If its ment to be a secure in the field storage option then a cap needs to be put in place for false codes.

Also 1111 is NOT a good code to use. I have been able to get in on peoples stupidity, not on exploting a mechanic.

I would like to thank my fellow repliers for such a strong and compelling argument, if we all replied like you this game would be great!

Re: Original Intent Lost?

This comes to mind...

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Snowstyle wrote:

If you want a PvP option to get your stuff back then maybe you should mine on the PvP islands.

So your telling me I shouldn't have the option to use a container in relative safety on the non-pvp islands...?

I believe in risk vs reward there is no risk involved in hacking a container only reward.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Elric Melnibone wrote:
Snowstyle wrote:

If you want a PvP option to get your stuff back then maybe you should mine on the PvP islands.

So your telling me I shouldn't have the option to use a container in relative safety on the non-pvp islands...?


Yes, thats what we are saying.

Now, stop QQ and man up. You are allredy enjoying 100% free 100% safety from players, what more you need?

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Ahhh Spaceballs, so awesome smile

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Roll on wardecs so we can blow up those damn containers

however i agree we shouldnt be able to hack them with macros, i think we need an in game module that allows you to actively hack them, just like the module to active hack a SAP, but it would of course have automatically flag you so that people can shoot you back.  of course it would need to also stop you taking stuff out of the container to stop the hack. Rough idea but could be worked on

Re: Original Intent Lost?

We can safely assume that if there is a code that can be hacked, then the developers meant for it to be hackable.  They could easily make containers such that only the owner can open.

Flagging the hacker for PVP would balance this, no?

11 (edited by Weapon X 2010-11-30 06:59:29)

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Dr Hari Seldon wrote:

We can safely assume that if there is a code that can be hacked, then the developers meant for it to be hackable.  They could easily make containers such that only the owner can open.

Flagging the hacker for PVP would balance this, no?

Not necessarily. It could have been easier to use a 4 digit code then setting up access permissions and levels on the field container feature. Really shouldn't assume anything.

(edit: lol we now have corp tags on forum)

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Some developer feedback on this would be good.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

PVP flagging on code failure would be an excellent solution here IMO, along with a slight ui enhancement such that it is clear to the hacker that they will PVP flag if the code they enter is incorrect.

If we go down that path, a good question is: if a player is already PVP flagged, should a code failure reset their timer?

The Blind Bot -- watch your six, my aim aint so good these days!

Re: Original Intent Lost?

it been discussed in the past, DEV answere can be found in the Q&A and beta forum archive.

to resume : it been regarded but not implemented due to possible abuse and complexity, but not totally rejected.

15 (edited by Jerokane 2010-11-30 13:38:40)

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Siddy wrote:
Elric Melnibone wrote:
Snowstyle wrote:

If you want a PvP option to get your stuff back then maybe you should mine on the PvP islands.

So your telling me I shouldn't have the option to use a container in relative safety on the non-pvp islands...?


Yes, thats what we are saying.

Now, stop QQ and man up. You are allredy enjoying 100% free 100% safety from players, what more you need?

It's people like you that should be insta banned from these forums. You are nothing but a troll! And do more harm this game than good!

So stop trolling man! Try to actually contribute for a change.

The OP has a valid point. And needs to be adressed.

At least in EVE when someone tries to rob your container he gets flagged as a criminal and you can blow him to pieces, without any interference of CONCORD.

4 digits is a joke and too easily hacked. Will be in notime someone comes up with a macro for that, freely downloadable from anywhere.

If people's containers are getting constantly hacked and emptied with absolute no consequence and risk for the criminal. Then this game will die off real quick.
As people will simply stop bothering, get a bad taste from this game and quit.

If that is what you try to achieve here. Then you are already doing a good job here on the forums trolling away with pointless posts!

------------------

To come back to the OP. The solution is really easy. Put a timer between each attempt.

If you have to wait like say 30 seconds between each attempt. It will already pretty much kill any incentive to create and run a macro.

Such an easy solution. They can quickly and easily implement. Problem solved.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Truely I am happy to see some serious ideas and solutions being presented by the Perpetuum community and that the community as a whole reconizes there is a problem with the containers and how they work.

I think any of these posted ideas could be implemented:

1.  Limited number of attempts possible
2.  Timer between tries
3.  PvP Flagged for attempting (PvP flag timer reset)

Status at the moment: I wouldn't use a container without 10+ guards watching it and even then there is always a larger force waiting around the corner.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Brute force macros would be so easily detected only an idiot would use it. You would pick that up via server logs almost instantly. Would result in an instant ban I would think.

[img]http://www.cryptostudios.com/PO/Sigs/BC.jpg[/img]

18 (edited by Siddy 2010-11-30 15:55:58)

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Jerokane wrote:

If people's containers are getting constantly hacked and emptied with absolute no consequence and risk for the criminal. Then this game will die off real quick.
As people will simply stop bothering, get a bad taste from this game and quit.


Like EVE died when there were ore thief's around?

Oh wait, EVE didn't die. And EVE can flagg system only made it worse, haha.

Now, GTFO troll.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

More like this.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Siddy wrote:
Jerokane wrote:

If people's containers are getting constantly hacked and emptied with absolute no consequence and risk for the criminal. Then this game will die off real quick.
As people will simply stop bothering, get a bad taste from this game and quit.


Like EVE died when there were ore thief's around?

Oh wait, EVE didn't die. And EVE can flagg system only made it worse, haha.

Now, GTFO troll.

Maybe you should learn to read. Instead of quoting just a tiny piece of the whole text.

So troll harder please.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Jerokane wrote:

It's people like you that should be insta banned from these forums. You are nothing but a troll! And do more harm this game than good!

Meet the M2S.

That said, if you weren't whining, there'd be less people trolling you. Inane whining tend to make the troll population go higher, considering there aren't much more in term of valable response to such clueless shenanigans.

In short: please keep on whining on things that don't need fixing, this is clearly going to help the development process.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

BigCountry wrote:

Brute force macros would be so easily detected only an idiot would use it. You would pick that up via server logs almost instantly. Would result in an instant ban I would think.

Sadly when we talked to a GM they said they would have to investigate it on a per user basis and I'm not real sure he was even going to do that.  Instantly detected is not going to occur for this case scenario on the detection of a brute force macro because basically it's just an attempt of all combinations quickly.  Any user could do this on their own albeit you cannot type as fast as a macro program.  But you certainly can sit there and try all combinations if you have the time and the patience.

Per the discussion I can tell you no one is watching the logs just to watch them.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Elric Melnibone wrote:
BigCountry wrote:

Brute force macros would be so easily detected only an idiot would use it. You would pick that up via server logs almost instantly. Would result in an instant ban I would think.

Sadly when we talked to a GM they said they would have to investigate it on a per user basis and I'm not real sure he was even going to do that.  Instantly detected is not going to occur for this case scenario on the detection of a brute force macro because basically it's just an attempt of all combinations quickly.  Any user could do this on their own albeit you cannot type as fast as a macro program.  But you certainly can sit there and try all combinations if you have the time and the patience.

Per the discussion I can tell you no one is watching the logs just to watch them.

Guessing the codes via hand typing and using a script macro are 2 completely different topics.

Trying to guess the codes via hand typing should be allowed.
big_smile

[img]http://www.cryptostudios.com/PO/Sigs/BC.jpg[/img]

Re: Original Intent Lost?

BigCountry wrote:
Elric Melnibone wrote:
BigCountry wrote:

Brute force macros would be so easily detected only an idiot would use it. You would pick that up via server logs almost instantly. Would result in an instant ban I would think.

Sadly when we talked to a GM they said they would have to investigate it on a per user basis and I'm not real sure he was even going to do that.  Instantly detected is not going to occur for this case scenario on the detection of a brute force macro because basically it's just an attempt of all combinations quickly.  Any user could do this on their own albeit you cannot type as fast as a macro program.  But you certainly can sit there and try all combinations if you have the time and the patience.

Per the discussion I can tell you no one is watching the logs just to watch them.

Guessing the codes via hand typing and using a script macro are 2 completely different topics.

Trying to guess the codes via hand typing should be allowed.
big_smile


Agreed but they are only differentiated by the timing.  A macro being the same as user keyboard and mouse input real hard to tell them apart without a scanning program searching for a running macro program, which I don't think Perpetuum uses.  And really other than this I don't see a reason to macro in this game so no worries in the least.

Re: Original Intent Lost?

Elric Melnibone wrote:
Snowstyle wrote:

If you want a PvP option to get your stuff back then maybe you should mine on the PvP islands.

So your telling me I shouldn't have the option to use a container in relative safety on the non-pvp islands...?

I believe in risk vs reward there is no risk involved in hacking a container only reward.

You were complaining about your inability to retaliate via PvP.

But I do agree with those that suggested a hacking module and becoming flagged when attempting a hack.