Topic: New EP Reset

Well... yeah.

Furthermore we are dropping the 45-day limit for the reset, and you can do a reset as many times as you want. This alone would of course pretty much destroy the persistence of the game, so it comes with a price: the first reset on every account is for free, without a time limit, but every consequent reset will give you a -20% EP penalty. (So you'll get 100% EP on the first reset, 80% on the 2nd, 64% on the 3rd and so on.) We'll be adding an information popup for the character selection screen where you will be able to check how many resets you have done so far, and how much EP you'll get back if you decide to do one.

I'm not sold on the free first one at anytime. That's a lot of EP if someone waits say 24 months before doing the first reset.

Looking from a different perspective, if your account is 100 days old, the 20% penalty would make it like a 80 day account. This could almost be worth it if say you wanted extension X to 10 and had to wait 95 days to get it, or reset and get it in 15 days.

Is 20% enough penalty?

Re: New EP Reset

Yes. I have never *** up my accounts to the extent that a 20% penalty would be worth it. I mean, to be willing lose that EP you would really have to have made a mess of it.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: New EP Reset

I cant imagine anyone making a big enough mistake with thier build to ever contemplate such a huge loss of EP. Youd have to be really *** to respec again after that and loose even more.

I hope this feature comes with a sobriety test just in case. big_smile

Re: New EP Reset

As I said in general last night, anyone taking a second or more EP reset needs a brain transplant. The one free reset for all is okay, gives everyone a chance to play for a while and then make a commitment without being constrained.

"like Kalsius, a shameless carebear and jitalover" - Syndic
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com/killboard/

Re: New EP Reset

The only people I can see who'd want a -20% reset of people that reset once as they're stupid and then made the same mistake again because their stupid. And to be fair science has shown that the stupid are always at a disadvantage so this sounds like discrimination.

Re: New EP Reset

Presumably you also loose all standings, research and have to re-buy skill books. Even the first reset is expensive if you have been doing missions or research

Re: New EP Reset

hmm, i could imagine, some experimental friendly noobs will use that feature within the first 4 weeks to do multiple respeccs.

and after 45days (which is the actual reset deadline) we can laugh at them in GC, when they complain that they have to pay 20% of their EP to do another respec, after they discovered their REAL mistakes.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New EP Reset

I was thinking more long term. Lets say I'm at month 24 and Kalsius has been saving up for 3 months to get Extension level 10 of some advanced skill and has 2 more months to go. I do a reset and have 20 months of EP still, and get that skill 10 now. Or I can wait 5 months to get that same skill, meanwhile Kalsius has had 2 months of a lead on me.

Wait 5 months and be behind 2 months, or have it now and have 2 months of advantage.

The only thing I can see that may stop something like this is if there are other gating issues, like needing high Rep (which would be reset also) for example.

Re: New EP Reset

Maybe the 20% is a bit steep, but i think the idea is very good.  First couple of months people are able to do serveral builds, first  months people can do serveral builds, without losing to much ip.

Would like to see first 2 months alot cheaper % loss though, so New Players can expiriment more.

Re: New EP Reset

I'm putting it out there, I'd be happy with a full EP reset once per year.

I'm not buying the FOTM BS, that argument is flawed from the word "Month" onwards. The reset would be once per year so congrats, you got into the best bot of a particular month now you can "suck" the rest of the 11 months in the eye's of those that use this argument (I think the entire argument is *** for a variety of reasons although not entirely relevant right now).

Perpetuum is catering to a niche however it still needs to be different from other sandboxes. Keeping EP dynamic and fluid when all other related games keep you tied down for your accounts entirety would be good in my opinion.

Re: New EP Reset

Styx wrote:

I'm putting it out there, I'd be happy with a full EP reset once per year.

I'm not buying the FOTM BS, that argument is flawed from the word "Month" onwards.

Was my original input on the original EP reset thread. Once a year use it or save it the timer starts when you hit the reset button.

+1 on the FOTM comment

12 (edited by Ral 2011-04-30 17:19:49)

Re: New EP Reset

What if you are a dedicated miner and they make your career choice irrelevant by nerfing (EDIT: buffing, depending on your point of view) mining yield by 50% so that a combat character in an Argano mines as well as you?

That might be worth a 20% loss to get into something that is worth doing.

13 (edited by Ral 2011-04-30 17:20:10)

Re: New EP Reset

Since it seems like I will be using this reset, Devs, can we have it so your neurointegration date and time online remain through a reset somehow?  I like tracking that and it will suck to have to start over just because mining is pointless now.

Re: New EP Reset

Simply, I don't think full resets are good for the game, because its not just EP.

A great example is the now alagorical Eve Scam, where they con other players into giving them ISK then transfer it and delete their characters.

That player subsequently quits, because he has all this ISK but lost all his skills and reputation, and playing for months to build it back up is too daunting.

With the way this is currently implemented, if Player X is a CEO or deputy CEO position wanted to, they could clear out the Corp and 'disappear' for the cost of 20% EP... or free if its the first one.

This has nothing to do with scamming, just the game mechanics making the 'get away' way too enticing.

No, with a couple hundred active players, this is not something that is going to happen on Wed, but if something can happen it will.

If EP resets are truely about clearing up extension mistakes, then the reset should be about removing applied EP, not about resetting an account.

... and for Ral, devs need to add a Ragereset timer, so players don't lose 20% by making rash decisions about mining changes before they actually see the impact smile

Re: New EP Reset

Arga wrote:

If EP resets are truely about clearing up extension mistakes, then the reset should be about removing applied EP, not about resetting an account.

The way you "Reset" EP at the moment is very asinine and far from perfect. A system where you could reset EP without having to reset your characters would be excellent.

Re: New EP Reset

Styx wrote:
Arga wrote:

If EP resets are truely about clearing up extension mistakes, then the reset should be about removing applied EP, not about resetting an account.

The way you "Reset" EP at the moment is very asinine and far from perfect. A system where you could reset EP without having to reset your characters would be excellent.

Agreed, and I would be happy with a once-per-year reset as well, although I don't mind the way it is currently.

Having said that, I would never take the 20% loss, so basically all I get is one free respec on my accounts which I do not plan to use because I'm happy with how they are.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

17

Re: New EP Reset

Can we get Dev answer to the following:

-Will neurointegration and online time be preserved?
-Will relations be preserved?
-Will corp status/career/stats be preserved?

Basically, are you resetting EP on a character leaving everything else the same, or are you deleting and recreating the character with a refund of its EP.

18 (edited by Arga 2011-05-01 20:10:03)

Re: New EP Reset

It is an "account reset", you have to delete ALL your characters in order to reset.

changing it to be only EP on one character would be major revision, and would certainly be mentioned in the blog as a change.

Deleted charcaters do not retain any character related information, relations, or items.

edit: One reason for it being this way, an assount reset, as I understand it is to cover the 'error' where new players create alts and apply EP to them not realizing that the EP is shared account wide. And to cover the fact they added an EP penalty to deleting alts after many players already created them, and they needed a way to return that EP penalty.

19 (edited by Kalsius Dakalsai 2011-05-01 20:20:45)

Re: New EP Reset

Styx wrote:

I'm not buying the FOTM BS, that argument is flawed from the word "Month" onwards.

There was a portion of the discussion which related to 'bought' resets with either ingame currency or RMT. Thats what a lot of FOTM discussions revolved around. Just making it clear that FOTM was a worry if that type of purchase was allowed. Also given 'Month' is the last word, technically there is nothing 'onwards' to be flawed in your statement. cool

I still dont think a yearly reset is good for the game. If you fubar a skill line, fine lets have some way to claw back 90-95% of the EP invested in a skill to spend elsewhere, make it time limited (i.e. 1 per month, just to stir the pot), moderately in game expensive or require a line of missions to be completed which required say 2-3 hours to complete.

"like Kalsius, a shameless carebear and jitalover" - Syndic
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com/killboard/

Re: New EP Reset

Kalsius Dakalsai wrote:

I still dont think a yearly reset is good for the game.

Why not? You stated an alternative system but haven't explained why the one I proposed in the first place wasn't sufficient.

Kalsius Dakalsai wrote:

If you fubar a skill line, fine lets have some way to claw back 90-95% of the EP invested in a skill to spend elsewhere, make it time limited (i.e. 1 per month, just to stir the pot), moderately in game expensive or require a line of missions to be completed which required say 2-3 hours to complete.

Whilst I don't like the idea of running missions, sure you can make it expensive. As for the EP reclamation it's essentially the same as what I proposed just not to the same degree. I say why not go all the way and enhance Perpetuum's dynamicness with what I proposed. The game will change, people will change, this could be a large selling point for Perpetuum in a competitive MMO marketplace. Invest in your character (12months sub) and you'll be rewarded.

Re: New EP Reset

Just a heads-up, previously the devblog stated slightly different mechanics, it has now been updated:

devblog wrote:

The first reset on every account is for free, without a time limit, but every consequent reset will put 20% of your actual total accumulated EP into a cumulative penalty pool. This effectively means that the older your account, the higher the actual penalty will be.

Re: New EP Reset

Styx wrote:

Invest in your character (12months sub) and you'll be rewarded.

Thats not a bad idea, however it will definitely stir the hornets nest of those with money having an advantage over those who do not.

In terms of why it is bad for the game, I have spent a lot of time in sandbox games and one of the truly special things is the persistence of characters and their traits. Wholesale resets once a year go some way to destroying that persistent aspect. Instead of people investing and making decisions based on a longer term plan (which these types of games profit from) it becomes 12 month spans, heck we might as well run it like those browser based games and just reset the game world every 12 months (overly dramatic I know big_smile)

It also leads to the 'new content' mind set. People want the devs to bring in something game changing so they can use their yearly reset, it also means previous content does not get recycled back into the game state, everyone wants this years "Lich King" expansion because the other stuff got boring.

"like Kalsius, a shameless carebear and jitalover" - Syndic
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com
http://www.perpetuum-intelligence.com/killboard/

Re: New EP Reset

The recurring point on the podcast was about losing all the rep and research, but this is only an issue with indy players. Combat players wanting to switch between colors can do so with very little penalty. So as it is now, this is a combat player only reset, if you screwed up your production character, this type of account reset has a heavy penalty over and above the EP.

Re: New EP Reset

I don't think we should have "magical reset everything". It's just not right and it favor the FoTM trend.

However, I do believe it's mandatory to be able to get back the EP you wrongly invested, or to allow you to test different things, without the need to delete your character.

In that regard, I would like to suggest a system where you can uninstall an extension over time, and recover your EP back.
Something like: If it took you 1500 EP to learn this Extension, then it will take 1500min for you to forget it, and recover your EP.

A "Full respec" would therefore be extremely long, and discourage people from switching colors, or from Indy to fighter/etc, while leaving the possibility for everyone to fix their mistakes in 1 or 2 weeks after they made them.

My blog about MMO design:
http://mmockery.wordpress.com/

Re: New EP Reset

You can't make a 'mistake' in applying EP, but you can do something sub-optimal. What your talking about here is the ability to change your mind, like "I've put all my EP into EWar, but now I want to be DPS mech.", which is something that's going to take a long long time to fix in the 'reverse time' theory of EP correction. Something like putting 1 level in a sub-optimal order isn't worth redeisigning the whole EP alloction mechanic.

The key to this is that its supposed to be a 1 time, or 2 if your desperate, way to fix something really big - a strategic EP issue, not a tactical placement error. Where this goes wrong is it's an account reset, and not an EP reset.

All these new names on the forums, aren't all new, some are account resets, vet players starting over with a new name and face. Continuity is lost. yes, let players have an EP reset, but require their actions and history to remain intact.

In case you miseed it; No to incremental EP, Yes to EP only reset.