Syndic, stop claiming people who's stupid and who's intelligent.

At least we, who have the opinion which is opposite to yours dont say "Oh hell, you're a goddamn *** if you dont understand it."

Dont know about you but we bring the bots that we are specialised in, we dont force out members to respec to the fotm builds

That's one bad point in your argument. You assume that people who oppose this style of gang only want to use throw away bots to counter it, and that's simply not true. People have used different fittings, and mechs(tech+) which take time to farm/build in an attempt to counter it, but simply because it outmaneuvers  you have only one real counter for it. Itself. Unless the leader/group makes one mistake, or is cornered it's an easy gang to run. Like I said, want no casualties? Run a speed fit kain/ewar group.

Now you could get a small fleet to hold them down, while the main hitters come in. However a competent fc knows to split the small fleet from the main and kill them. Next simply run off and renew again avoiding the large fleet incoming.

I've stated it several times in the threads that people are using decently farmed gear to counter these, and they are complaining about it.

Also..

The comparison made was a kain fit t1, vs another light fit t1 by one of your own alliance members, and even they noted the kain went just as fast etc. We're not talking t1 vs t4 here. Thus your lacking focus on the issue here. Please read what kristan wrote:

Please read what people write instead of just resorting to pointless talking. I'm not saying we're right, we're only pointing out something odd here...

A speed-fitted artemis will eat the kain alive, nevermind a tank fitted artemis.

@ Mara

If you've ever run a speed-fit Kain + ewar group, you'd know its a *** idea. Speed-fit Kains = glass cannon shotguns (60m optimal range with T4 Gauss!), they simply do NOT function without group support (600+m Tyra/Artemis, 500+ demob, ECM Vaga, SS Zenith).

The entire REASON why Kains have a higher speed then the other mechs, is because their optimal range is that much shorter that they simply have to be faster in order to get a shot off at roughly the same time as the other 3 mechs.

Consider Kain's range with T2 EM's + 1 RE; it is usually 395m (and that's without mission ammo). Compare it to Artemis range, compare it to Tyrannos range, then come back and talk about balance.

The flaw in your (and Kristans) logic is, this game is not only about roaming, or only about defending intrusions/gate camping. Mechs being only tanks results in them not being used for anything BUT defending in intrusions. Mechs having their speed nerfed results the roaming side of the game only being about light EW bots/Light bots, which are incidentally among the cheapest things in the game to produce.

If you REALLY want to argue logic, then argue that ASSAULT bots need a significant buff in either speed, or range because right now they're useless for anything.

i partially agree - the light weapon nerf was probably the killing blow for "assaults" in the whole picture. before that, could at least deal some damage.

Norhoop has vacancy from what i have seen. But as more islands are added it will allows for people to eas in to beta.

New expanding corps will always experience harassment but remember, in order to expand one must spread resources. Thus leading to weakening.  Many corps will only be able to handle such long fights with top tier equipment for so long.

Bumping this, when I get told from multiple players and factions that kains need to be nerfed I think the developers should take a look. It's not a matter of being killed or killing them, something needs to be done about the speed issue, or some factor to balance them.

I've killed a lot of them, but in general all you're seeing for roaming gangs is kains.. kind of easy to see what's going on here.

That sounds great and all but what do u do about the missile bots? Kains will no longs have speed needed to counter there long range but If they can shoot just as far as arts would they need there speed?

who knows but one things for sure assualts are still useless..check market some sellling cheaper then light bots

Yeah whatever so nerf damage than ...
UDC = Volcano ... why to give range modifier to udc ?

and let see medium weapons :
t4 LCL : 190m opt, 160% damage, 5 sec
vs
t4 Gauss : 175m opt, 300% damage, 8 sec

t4 HCL : 350m opt, 130% damage, 6 sec
vs
t4 EM : 310m opt, 270% damage, 10 sec

So in most cases you need to wait to clear los for hit, therefore cycle time wont do too much difference, but as we see the base optimals is close to each other , but what ???? magnetic weapons have DOUBLE BASE damage multiplier. so with skills that would be much more and more ...

So if you think that there is all right with balance than you are wrong.
Lets quote one sentence from Alexander 2 months ago : "[Everyone knows Long Range DPS Kains are the future.]" ... no other robots ... just Kains ...

And after that you need buff for them Syndic ... rotfl ...

Edit : i dont need to take Kain speed down to Artemis or even Tyrannos, just make a balance, and let Kain have 5-6% speed bonus over the other two mechs ... but as we knows now with t4 vel nexus kain goes 20-22% faster than t4 vel nexus boosted  tyrr or artemis (same light speed fit on all) ... and of course they can outrun any light or assault robots ...this is the main problem...

Yup, and look at the range modifiers currently in place:

-75% optimal range on magnedart. Whoop-de-doo!

The bonuses tell you everything. Kains are glass cannons meant to go in close, unload, and get out if they can. Big one-shot DPS spike, which is why gauss has 10 second cycle speed before extensions. Gauss is not something you use like a rifle, fire a shot and dodge behind a tree, its a goddamn shotgun. Long range kains CAN function adequately, but they require combined arms (ewar mechs, green mechs) to achieve that.

Artemis has an entirely different role; you conveniently neglect to portray the stacking crit bonus & the resistance bonuses which makes them the best resist-tank mechs in the game. Crypto & T4 HCL's, watch the sustained DPS pour in, with the crit stacking bonus providing the "spike".

Tyrannos I wont even get into, with the potential for full range extender setup & spider remote sensor-amping due to low cap usage of missile launchers. Nevermind that range extenders positively stack...

How are you getting this math of velocity nexus giving 20% boost to kains alone? A velocity nexus is a squad-buff that gives a set percentage + extension percentage, it doesnt individually apply to select bots. The difference between a speed-fit Tyrannos and a speed fit Kain is 10 kph, and 8 kph between Kain and a speed-fit Artemis.

The reason why Kains are chosen for roaming isn't because they're "imba" its because of the speed. Speed > everything in roaming. Once the Kains can't close distance (which is what you're crying about, very shortsightedly) they become redundant and useless unless ammo/weapons are redesigned, which makes them just a lazy copy of the same role the Thelodica are filling out.

Its quite simple - if a Kain gets inside the golden 100m marker, youre dead unless youre in an Artemis with x2 Kinetic hardeners. That means that the other mechs have ~500m to kill the Kain, or weaken it sufficiently before it arrives, or they will quite simply die.

Aside from the 1v1v1 balance, what youre REALLY crying about is roam-squads full of kains, ewar mechs, and some supporting tyrannos/artemis. Its the same situation as when people were crying about ewar gangs, and the same truth still applies:

They are fit with the sole purpose of 1. speed 2. picking off the weak links. Either fit accordingly to deal with them, don't fit accordingly and die trying to deal with them, or dont engage.

The future is something far different from some "long range DPS kains". By the time the Devs do the usual kneejerk nerf to appease you, we'll have the next thing ready to roll out en-masse.

Don't derail the topic with QQ "but we won 1-2 times!", someone dying in PVP is completely irrelevant to the discussion and not a valid or relevant argument. "But people say its wrong" is not a valid argument either.

I've heard numerous people from numerous factions say the game should be F2P, that doesn't mean they're right or that their IQ is above room temperature.