1 (edited by Annihilator 2011-05-06 11:51:29)

Topic: Weapon stabilizer

Pre-patch discussion posts 1-45
after patch discussion posts 45+


I can see those modules reducing the assault bot usage even more,
and light bots that got a boost with the last balancing patch going to be redundant one again.

what are the penalties for using this module?

if its just mass and fitting costs, every speed-kain driver will laugh about it.

- Mass penaltys always get halfed by LWFs and empty slots.
- CPU and Reactor wont be a problem if you have most of your slots empty
- accumulator related penalty doesnt affect firearms and missiles
  (which will actually gain the most from lower disperstion/explosion size)

Possible penalties i could see are:
- negative speed multiplicator (negating lwf effect)
- increased locking time
- ... suggestions?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Weapon stabilizer

As it stand assualts are useless and with this patch lights will be as well.....with a mech pilot with good precision u can get 2-4 shot  in a light now a mech with this mod who knows prob 2 shot u maybe insta pop? As it stand assualts hove no advantage/use lights had there surface size witch even now is only a very slight advantage....take that away ant there useless so now I guess everyone should just train mechs and g/l roaming solo in a mech on a beta island even being masked Im sure it's tuff to get away from blobs and if u have no masker or detector well ur screwed....looks like solo ganking is goin to be a thing of my epic past welcome new age of I got bigger zerg then u and u die......but hey safer beta islands I guess

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Hello Evasion Modules & Evasive Nexus modules.

I dont really see why you're talking about penalties; they're a natural counter for the Evasive line of modules which - when used correctly - give light EW's some ~10k effective HP.

This whole patch is one big joke anyway... Megafail after megafail, adding more safezones to mine in, alpha-only minerals, adding highways so T1 transports can generate even more NIC, nerfing mineral refresh,...

Seriously, whoever you're listening to for your feedback (and I got a pretty good idea)... just stop it. Block them from your MSN/Skype or whatever, and delete that contact.

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Re: Weapon stabilizer

Agree with Balf about assaults.

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Syndic wrote:

Hello Evasion Modules & Evasive Nexus modules.

I dont really see why you're talking about penalties; they're a natural counter for the Evasive line of modules which - when used correctly - give light EW's some ~10k effective HP.

A: lights only have 2 low slots getting rid of frame or rep will doom u to die evasive mod wont give u enough bonus to rid u of the need to rep

B: not everyone has 15+ people ready to zerg at a moments notice and to fit out what your gang needs to be successful

C: Not everyone likes to zerg up some like to solo and u cant fit every mod u need on 1 bot
Im not saying make it to where you can epic solo wtf pwn everything but atleast make it vialbe

Re: Weapon stabilizer

I already have Prec. 10, since we don't have the spec's yet, it may not be worth putting it in and giving up that leg slot. Or maybe it would be in a MK II.

And the evasion module is something the light bots MK II could put there.

Currently is sound like putting in an evasion modules is a fail fit, and this stabilizer is being specifically added to make those modules more attractive.

7 (edited by Balfizar 2011-04-29 00:16:17)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

light bots MK II is a high price to field when chances are u will be zerg and tackled its not worth the risk and unless its t4 fit there no point fielding it and if it is t4 fit u mine as well be in a speed fit kain

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Balfizar wrote:

A: lights only have 2 low slots getting rid of frame or rep will doom u to die evasive mod wont give u enough bonus to rid u of the need to rep

B: not everyone has 15+ people ready to zerg at a moments notice and to fit out what your gang needs to be successful

C: Not everyone likes to zerg up some like to solo and u cant fit every mod u need on 1 bot
Im not saying make it to where you can epic solo wtf pwn everything but atleast make it vialbe

A: Light bots cost ~200-300k off the market from infinite NPC sell orders for a reason. They're a newbie bot. Dropping a rep for an evasive module = problem solved, as long as 2 people in the team are fitting remote-reppers.

B: Thats "not everyone"s problem, not a valid argument.

C: It wasn't epic solo wtfpwn everything before, and it certainly wont be unviable after this change. T1 Light Bots will still be cost-effective the best thing to gank newbie pilots in, nothing will change that.

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Re: Weapon stabilizer

Balfizar wrote:

light bots MK II is a high price to field when chances are u will be zerg and tackled its not worth the risk and unless its t4 fit there no point fielding it and if it is t4 fit u mine as well be in a speed fit kain

But this is only an issue if the stabilizer is something that fits in current Mech builds.

I don't know PVP mech fits, is there an open leg slot for this item?

I'm guessing that speed fit kains will not be using this module, because its mass they don't need, but again I'll defer to pvp people running those fits.

In PVE, I would swap out a med plate for this module on my Artemis, and with prec 10 be able to engage assault NPCs with very little penalty. This type of setup may be important for the new Alpha Islands where you'll run into more heavy bots and need the mech firepower, but also need to be able to counter the smaller bots in the group too.

Re: Weapon stabilizer

The energy returning armor sounds like it could also compete with the stabilizer for that mech leg slot.

That same Artemis is always running out of Acc, getting some back would be useful. I can also see where that could be really handy in PVP too, if you get drained and then get a boost of AP as soon as you are attacked. Would require more coordination between drainers and DPS for sure.

Re: Weapon stabilizer

A speed fit mk II kain can be got with nexus up to around 95. At those speeds you only get tackled by ewar and so it would probably be worth the tradeoff of losing a little speed to make sure you hit ewar harder.

12 (edited by Malakian 2011-04-29 10:14:56)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Fourfingers Frankie wrote:

A speed fit mk II kain can be got with nexus up to around 95. At those speeds you only get tackled by ewar and so it would probably be worth the tradeoff of losing a little speed to make sure you hit ewar harder.

Agree. Not need a MK2, even for a good precision firing/normal Kain is easy to kill really fast a e-war, 2 volleys I mean, so be zerged is the only real threat for speed fit kain roamers. I hope stabs are not going easy to fit, I hope these will be hard to fit (heavy weight, penalized accumulator recharge, penalized optimal range, penalized locking range, whatever), we dont need more reasons to give more power/advantages to nuimqol mechs. Kain pilot here, btw.

I hate stationhuggers and arkhebears.
M2S - Considerably more braincells than Trantor.

Spam

Re: Weapon stabilizer

These modules are not required. I disagree with them. They will destabilise balance further.
Zergs of smaller robots are less effective now apart from solo ganking.

The enemy of mechs isn't light or assault robots (Unless in a gank force and these modules won't help that situation). Fitting a hit dispersion lowering modules in most cases with most weapons will not increase damage output against targets of higher threat which won't change the tides of battle.

Re: Weapon stabilizer

my issue with it is that theoretically imo one mech should not be able to kill one ewar due to hit dispersion if the ewar pilot is competent otherwise why diversify your force? I would say implement this module but increase the dispersion of all medium long range guns by 3 or 4 and all medium short range guns by 2. This way if you want to kill ewar you need to either specialise your mechs or bring a counter.

15 (edited by Annihilator 2011-04-29 12:03:55)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

later, i have to do some test calculations -

  • we don't know yet how much it will lower dispersion (not even if its "-x°" or "-x%")
    its probably a very low factor anyway for the t1-t3 module. if its a % bonus, med EM guns, med firearms and medium ballistic missiles will profit most of it

  • we don't know what mass it will have ( i guess around 500-1000 kg)
    there are mass2speed fitting spreadsheets out there, so you kain driver - tell us how much impact it would have on you)

  • im pretty sure its like evasive module limited to one per robot.
    unlessd the fitting requirements are to high to fit more then one, this is almost granted

  • im also pretty sure, that like this module wont be a common fit for a long time (2 month)
    examples like NEXUS, Ictus or range extender have shown that the benefits of new gamebreaking items show up on the battlefield about 2 month after implementation.

  • the main issue i see with this module, is the concern about assault bots
    (unlike popular believe some month ago, they dont have much chances against mechs),
    and artillery-grophos (range extender in head slot, stabilizer in leg, 3s locking time)

but to bring out the positive aspects this module could have for corporations and their recruits:
- the new member could priorize their extensions on CPU and Reactor, and delaying the expensive hit dispersion or explosion size extension.
- pve npc farmer will love them where they have to face bots with their heavy mechs.
- someone equipping missiles on his kain could benefit from better DPS with lower skills in missiles
...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Mix the 2 last points, Kain with missiles is nothing but pve related, and farming npcs in a kain is pretty meh, even with acs.

I hate stationhuggers and arkhebears.
M2S - Considerably more braincells than Trantor.

Spam

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Annih has it right.

I have Dispersion 10(30% reduction) and with Med lasers its hard to hit light bots with a surface ratio of 2.75-3.

Laser with base HitDisp of 8 reduced to 5.6 is a 53% chance to hit a light bot (3.0) and 49% chance on a Triojar (2.75). Even assuming this module had a 5% reduction and depending on the math method, that still only brings it down to 5.3; 56%/51%.

3% is not a game breakingly better chance to hit light bots.
The 5% is generous, its probably more like 2% per tier.
Its a leg item, which means its most likely heavy.

IMO this is a MK II item. At some point there needs to be some reason to start moving to the MK II, and like Annih says, its probably a few months away still. Even then, this item will be a DPS module, not something used in speed fits.

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Looking at the evasive modules it's probably going to be a static reduction not a %.

Edit: Troll removed - DEV Calvin

Re: Weapon stabilizer

After a nice lunch, this module is likely designed for something that isn't in the game yet.

There are two things that have been discussed on the forums and one that the Devs are for sure going to add.

A slow loading, high damage weapon, where every shot counts is where this would be most effective. This could be the known Artillary or the 'maybe' sniper type weapon.

If this is the case, its going to be very heavy, but probably not too hard to fit with a good fixed dispersion reduction value. Mechs will look at it and drool but say it is worthless because of the weight; but it will fit nicely into an Artilliary build.

We'll know more of course, once we see the specs. I would bet we see more 'this is a useless module' posts than 'this is OP' posts.

20 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-04-29 23:48:45)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Syndic wrote:

A: Light bots cost ~200-300k off the market from infinite NPC sell orders for a reason. They're a newbie

Why are you loosing kains and mesmers to newbie bots then?

I propose this as a "Syndology 1"

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Mara Kaid wrote:
Syndic wrote:

A: Light bots cost ~200-300k off the market from infinite NPC sell orders for a reason. They're a newbie

Why are you loosing kains and mesmers to newbie bots then?

I propose this as a "Syndology 1"

Because you're a profound follower of the occam of zergology, and only engage when you got a 7:1 situation. That's fine... We'll simply up the game and move around in 20 man groups, so by all means bring 140 people to zerg our 20... if you can find enough willing to follow you.

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22 (edited by Balfizar 2011-04-30 04:36:28)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Syndic wrote:
Mara Kaid wrote:
Syndic wrote:

A: Light bots cost ~200-300k off the market from infinite NPC sell orders for a reason. They're a newbie

Why are you loosing kains and mesmers to newbie bots then?

I propose this as a "Syndology 1"

Because you're a profound follower of the occam of zergology, and only engage when you got a 7:1 situation. That's fine... We'll simply up the game and move around in 20 man groups, so by all means bring 140 people to zerg our 20... if you can find enough willing to follow you.

lol talk about the pot calling the ketel black and all that..so instead of 15 ur gonna shoot for 20? lulz we dont even have 30 actives where u getting 140 man u sure do spew some b/s

23 (edited by Shadeless 2011-04-30 11:06:34)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Syndic wrote:
Mara Kaid wrote:
Syndic wrote:

A: Light bots cost ~200-300k off the market from infinite NPC sell orders for a reason. They're a newbie

Why are you loosing kains and mesmers to newbie bots then?

I propose this as a "Syndology 1"

Because you're a profound follower of the occam of zergology, and only engage when you got a 7:1 situation. That's fine... We'll simply up the game and move around in 20 man groups, so by all means bring 140 people to zerg our 20... if you can find enough willing to follow you.

Off-topic::

I never saw you attack or defend 1 time, without having 3x the numbers. So Syndic stfu about calling others zerg, YOU zerg just as much as anyone else. EVERYONE ZERGS so STFU about who is zerging what.

And Syndic... are u madzzz?

/Off-Topic::

And about weapon stablizers, Why bother to drive Lights, if you can do everything in your mechs. Small bots where there to do other lights, now that becomes obsulete.

So no to weapon stabilizer.

24 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-04-30 18:24:12)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Shade, when his own people complement us on strategy and then he points the finger zerg, you know he's full of it.

ontopic: I'm interested to see how these will affect the game.

25 (edited by Syndic 2011-04-30 20:52:55)

Re: Weapon stabilizer

Balfizar wrote:

lol talk about the pot calling the ketel black and all that..so instead of 15 ur gonna shoot for 20? lulz we dont even have 30 actives where u getting 140 man u sure do spew some b/s

We're actually shooting for 40, to emphasise co-dependencies between types of bots and redundancy in nexus-runners.

And brosef Mara, your ability to twist words is as skillful as always - I am not pointing a finger and calling you zerg; I'm merely stating whats quite obvious to everyone on the 3 beta islands already: you're engaging only then there is another corp to hide behind, or when you manage to catch a lonely target somewhere.

Again, this is fine - I simply don't care. Everything you do can be archived in the category of "non-factor". I personally have a dislike for the NIC scamming of new players that youre running, but thats your choice and I dont care.

You can talk about achievements and successful strategies when you actually do something.... So far you've only managed to lose an entire Beta island.

EDIT:

Out of curiosity, do you remember what happened the last time you were doing this forum-propaganda spin? Myrm came, *** you, and you never got good. I am however, far more patient then Myrms when it comes to games... Your day will come, just like ECORP's did. wink

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